Hedge Fund Opportunity

[gamma]

In fact there are two 'ifs' the first is - can the money be raised, and then - can the returns be generated.
Well before any money can be raised a track record has to be produced by phoencapital. No one in his or her right mind would volunteer a penny without a track record.
And he still has not shown us anything remotely like that
All he has indicated so far is perhaps he is a good administrator

 

[Baldwreck]

He does offer a great business opportunity IF he can produce the returns.

Sorry - I think its a bit more fundamental than that. A quick visit to the website will reveal that the narrative pretty much breaches every relevant FSA rule, you just can't say those sort of things - its just naive and really quite dangerous and very surprising coming from someone who has as much experience in the industry as we are led to believe.

 

[BSD]

Baldwreck, if that's the case then it's good that you point that out, but in all fairness I do think you should give some concrete examples where according to you PC is breaching FSA regulations ?

 

[grantx]

Strictly speaking, track records are not Phoenix's domain - these would be the fund managers/traders.

Grant.

 

[Baldwreck]

Baldwreck, if that's the case then it's good that you point that out, but in all fairness I do think you should give some concrete examples where according to you PC is breaching FSA regulations ?

Fair enough - here is the exact wording from the website

Strategy

Strategically our aim is generate excessive returns on our Hedge Funds. We aim to achieve this by taking a fundamentally different approach to standard Hedge Fund dynamics. We are marketing a series of Hedge Fund products that will employ the most leading edge derivative techniques and constantly adapt to scientific advances.

Each fund will outperform conventional market benchmarks because each one will exhibit a derivative class that provides minimum correlation, and maximum risk aversion. Each of our Hedge Funds will utilise a leverage capability enabling outperformance in both a rising and falling market.

Our fundamental objective is to provide our Investors with a guaranteed consistent return that they cannot achieve elsewhere. We have the knowledge and the technology to achieve this objective. High powered leading edge mathematics will drive our investment returns to the efficient frontier. A point which other Hedge Fund Management companies have found difficult to achieve.

The Funds shall be active and versatile. They will be driven by our Derivative Traders whose knowledge and understanding of their product area is second to none. Our Quantitative Analysts will continually provide investment models that will remain cutting edge. These mathematical models will enable us to deliver unparalled fund performance.

Anyone claiming "excessive returns" - "guaranteed consistent return" "unparalled fund performance" etc etc is simply way off limits. There are no risk warnings - I could go on but I think enough said.

 

[grantx]

Baldwreck,

These are just Phoenix's intentions and ideas; in its current context it doesn't constitute marketing or a sales pitch to potential clients.

Grant.

 

[Baldwreck]

Baldwreck,

These are just Phoenix's intentions and ideas; in its current context it doesn't constitute marketing or a sales pitch to potential clients.

Grant.

Hi Grant
As the website invites one to register and apply for a prospectus I'm not sure you are right!!

 

[Choicey123]

Baldwreck is right, PheonixCapital does require a disclaimer on the website. He is solicting interest with the "intention" (key legal point) of capital raising for a Capital Management firm. The site briefly taps on the type of strategies available (although very very basic, it still risks the attraction from the uneducated retail sector). Even the registration part of the website requires a section on "Investment required".

My ex-girlfriend is a compliance officer at one of the tier 1 banks, out of curiousity I had her flick over it ;-)

 

[BSD]

Thanks for explaining your position Baldwreck.

Really pretty complicated all these regulations, lotsa work for lawyers eh.

But then we have Grant here who knows his way round these things very well if one of us wants to go down that route.



Btw, I think that what Phoenix has on offer is pretty valuable, ie the connections to come up with a hundred mill.

He just comes with a pretty expensive price tag from the viewpoint of the trader, ie 75% of ownership for him...

But then again, if this is all above board it would still be a pretty good opportunity for someone talented starting out but without a lot of money at this stage, I mean what options do they have, find a backer, or go join a prop shop, a trading arcade where they get backed too and spend several years building up their stake, or, thirdly, accelerating things up and adding some serious leverage to their career and fortune building by joining a hedge fund where they have an ownership stake.

Hmm.

 

[grantx]

Baldwreck,

I haven't seen the website. Have you got a link, please?

Grant.

 

[Choicey123]

Phoenix Capital

 

[phoenixcapital]

Destiny is not a matter of chance, it's a matter of choice.

 

[BSD]

That is definitely true Phoenix !

 

[TWI]

There are many hedgefunds that have no website at all.
Fact is, those who do not try get nowhere.
If you have the contacts to raise the capital and can attract the people to show you are respectable reward vs. risk then the setup is the biggest headache in this country, much easier in USA. I know a chap who started with 5m 5 years ago and now has 1bln fum with a av. 10% net p.a.. I have had fund of fund guys turn up for meetings and ask me what they should do with hundreds of millions they are unable to place. Money is out there if you have the structure in place and can convince these people you are a good bet.

 

[grantx]

Dow Jones,

I think the web site is pretty good. Content may not be perfect but given there are no traders at present everything may be regarded preliminary to be improved/revised as and when.

Grant

 

[crude_lover]

so come on out of all of you be honest whos already applied to phoenix capital for a trading position lol

 

[charttrainerdotcom]

Phoenix is not a good name right now... there was a major blow up in Germany and the company was called Phoenix.

BTW - whats most important: whats the funds style and edge? How is it going to make money? How about performance and volatility estimates?

 

[fifty2aces]

BTW - whats most important: whats the funds style and edge? How is it going to make money? How about performance and volatility estimates?

I believe he said he intended to be a salesman - his edge is finding traders to work for him.

 

[MrGecko]

PC; why break into a sprint to manage OPM so early on??

Once you start inviting investor to give you wedge, things get V. V. complicated; I can't remember who said it earlier on in the thread, but basically it is bloody difficult to start your own fund unless you (or another officer) runs one already (5yrs, $100M+ and so on). Also, why Cayman specifically? BVI, Belize, Panama, and a few others are much less regulated (doesn't make it easier to screw people, but easier to get off the ground).

If you have the experience you claim (which I am inclined to believe), why not find partners with capital to set up the fund with you? They prolly would have to be HNWs with their own bankroll, not some other fund with cash laying around, but i would expect it is possible to raise perhaps $10m given your contacts (and really not that much out there). Then set it up an an IBC with everyone on board, and sort out equity/divs/fees and so on in the articles. Still alot of regs to go through, but it shouldn't be anywhere near as difficult as inviting OPM straight off the bat (offshore regs are becoming increasingly like the ones in the UK and US).

Then, providing things go well, your HNW backers tout their returns to other HNW's who want in, and increase your AUM that way. After a few years, then you might be in a position to get "hedge Fund" status and look for outside investment. I am told it used to be pretty easy to do this kind of thing, but not so much the case nowadays. Having said that, I know v. little about what you can actually do within the laws of the land.

One last point is that your website is sh!t. Better to have a graphic that says "F*ck off and mind your own business" than actually tell people what you intend to do. I think even by letting people ask you for "information packs" might get you into some hot water w/out all the necessary accreditation.

 

[luckyd1976]

And I also still maintain the figures just don't stack up - setting up a business is HUGELY expensive in this industry. Infrastructure and staff costs alone will absolutely kill you if you're aiming for something halfway decent. There just aren't a lot of shortcuts.

Hope it works (assuming, as one poster pointed out, it's above board), but have a feeling it isn't gonna fly

GJ

GJ Makes a really good point. In this (HedgeFund) arena there are huge startup costs and regulatory angles to be considered. Also public marketing laws, performance laws, etc... Its crazy the headache and amount of money needed for startup.

Most successful HF managers have their client list before launch.

Thats the easiest way in. Become a Series 7 broker, Charge 1-2% AUM, grow client list or land one big one that trust you after you show great performances. Then you'll have your startup. And trust me, Your orginal backers will do all the Selling you'll ever need. Hell even the LTCM guy after the biggest blowup in HedgeFund history was still able to pull together ANOTHER FUND. Once you get in your in but it takes alot to get going!