FuturesBetting? Holy Moly !!

Hi S,

as mentioned before - this kind of thing maybe true for the odd bet, or if you are losing money -but, this is not true if it becomes a substantial money making thing.

Once you are classed a professional trader, or worse still, you are already known as a professional trader, then the over-riding case is that you liable to pay tax on your professional earnings.

Dont be fooled by "spin" than SB firms are putting on this. If you are a professional and I assume you are or want to be, then this is not a loophole for you.

To be fair to zigglewiggler who posted the first part of the thread, i think we should leave tax on spread betting for a new string.

thanks for the quote.

BB
 
bundbaby said:
Hi S,

as mentioned before - this kind of thing maybe true for the odd bet, or if you are losing money -but, this is not true if it becomes a substantial money making thing.

Once you are classed a professional trader, or worse still, you are already known as a professional trader, then the over-riding case is that you liable to pay tax on your professional earnings.

Dont be fooled by "spin" than SB firms are putting on this. If you are a professional and I assume you are or want to be, then this is not a loophole for you.

To be fair to zigglewiggler who posted the first part of the thread, i think we should leave tax on spread betting for a new string.

thanks for the quote.

BB
Click to expand...
What authority or expertise do you have in taxation?

UK SB companies, regulated by the SFA, would not be advertising unlawful claims as to the tax free status of spreadbetting.

If I had a personal view as to the future tax free status of SB trading, it would be that it is not a big enough target for Gordon Brown.
:)
 
Hi FS,

I have set a new thread Tax on Spread Betting. Please add to it i welcome your comments.

ps

My comments are based on my experiences and opinions. I hope people respect that as i respect your opinions. In this case I am not an accountant although having traded globally for 15 years or more it is based on numerous meetings with Tax Barristers, Pension Funds, Accountants, Trusts, Hedge Funds etc etc and how i have successfully and LEGALLY set up my own affairs in a black and white manner.

yours
BB
 
Just had a revealing conversation.

FuturesBetting is located in Gibraltar because as non proprietory traders (unlike Uk SBs) there is no ability for them to right off loss against tax, they're intermediaries and don't have the luxury.

UK SBs are playing the markets themselves against clients, so fit into another type of business model, FutBet would be penalised under mainland Tax codes.

There's probably a better informed explanation than mine, but that's the gist of it.

FutBet aren't in Gibraltar for 'dodgy' reasons.

The FSA are currently approving them as well. They are subject to UK law.
 
zigglewigler said:
Just had a revealing conversation.

FuturesBetting is located in Gibraltar because as non proprietory traders (unlike Uk SBs) there is no ability for them to right off loss against tax, they're intermediaries and don't have the luxury.

UK SBs are playing the markets themselves against clients, so fit into another type of business model, FutBet would be penalised under mainland Tax codes.

There's probably a better informed explanation than mine, but that's the gist of it.

FutBet aren't in Gibraltar for 'dodgy' reasons.

The FSA are currently approving them as well. They are subject to UK law.
Click to expand...

Bit confused on your comment on UK SBs - from what I understand they are NOT playing the markets - in fact if you look at the IG float prospectus (which was a very interesting insight into the workings of a SB firm) they do not hedge only when the cost of hedging outweighs the benefits - i.e. they are non-prop.
 
The SBs aren't purely brokers, their income is not simply commission on trades executed. They do take positions themselves hence profit from the market, therefore are in part proprietory traders in terms of how they will write down the loss against tax.

FutBet are solely making money from comms on trades placed via IB on the clients behalf, who themselves hold the trade in the form of a SB, however a SB unlike any before offered.

That distinction explains why they're based in Gibraltar. Incidentally the authorities aren't issuing anymore licences, so FutBet should absolutely clean up with their operation.

Well my application is off, I'll stick with IB until all is set up and working as it should.

I'd still like to hear from those that have left IB for FutBet.
 
RE: Trade: Exceptions & alternatives: Betting and gambling

"an organised activity to make profits out of the gambling public will normally amount to trading"

If a man makes himself out, say physically collects bets from physical persons in the street, he may be acting in the course of a bookmaker. But if he hides himself in his private room, with a computer connected to the internet, expressing his opinion on the probability of something occurring via Betfair, can he be termed acting as a bookmaker in "an organised activity to make profits out of the gambling public"?

To make it more simple, if he is located physically away from where Betfair is located, another country, who is the gambling public?
 
Anonymous said:
RE: Trade: Exceptions & alternatives: Betting and gambling

"an organised activity to make profits out of the gambling public will normally amount to trading"

If a man makes himself out, say physically collects bets from physical persons in the street, he may be acting in the course of a bookmaker. But if he hides himself in his private room, with a computer connected to the internet, expressing his opinion on the probability of something occurring via Betfair, can he be termed acting as a bookmaker in "an organised activity to make profits out of the gambling public"?

To make it more simple, if he is located physically away from where Betfair is located, another country, who is the gambling public?
Click to expand...
The answer to your question has to be "No"; it is not you who is the bookmaker.
Also it is clear enough that betting is not currently held to be a vocation.
 
TRIPLE WITCHING DAY TOMORROW GUYS & DOLLS
UK and US options [stock & indices] ALSO futrs contracts

Triple Witching :eek: :eek:
An event that occurs when the contracts for stock index futures, stock index options, and stock options all expire on the same day. Triple Witching Days happen four times a year: the third Friday of March, June, September, and December. This phenomenon is sometimes referred to as "Freaky Friday." :devilish: :eek:



The final trading hour for that Friday is the hour known as triple witching. In this final hour, the markets are quite volatile as traders are quickly offsetting their option/futures order before the closing bell. If you are a long-term investor, then triple witching has a minimal impact on you.
 
Triple Witching Day? Sounds like Friday 13 or Nightmare on Elms Street. Better not go out then.
 
zigglewigler said:
I've been ignoring t2w for a while, so maybe this has been discussed(search reveals nowt), so at the risk of annoying the regular smart arses here, have you seen this fantastic sounding new product?

http://www.futuresbetting.com/home.php

This is a Gibraltar based 'new improved' SB but anchored to the Futures market via IB. You trade the market price plus fixed cost in and out. The firm takes your SB order and places a Futures trade with IB (matched). But it is absolutely tight to the market, no front running prices and trading against clients. Sounds good.

Tax free status too.

Anyone using this firm?

I'm considering leaving IB for this. But this is a gut reaction as I was told about this new firm 5 minutes ago! :eek:
Click to expand...
=======================================================

And i bet you my bottom $ that their service/rules on marg etc are far better than IB!!
What you need to ask them is how many clients have signed up from IB? :LOL:
And plz let us know what they say?! :LOL: :cool:

These links below may help you make the right decisions :cheesy:

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?threadid=53285&perpage=6&pagenumber=8

http://www.trade2win.com/boards/showthread.php?t=15743

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?threadid=53285&perpage=6&pagenumber=9

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?threadid=51251



Have a good week trading! :)

Bull
 
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I disagree entrirely with most of the posters on EliteTrader.

IB really ar egood IMHO.

JonnyT
 
IB Vs FB

I have used both Interactive Brokers and Futures Betting. EDITED

For what its worth my thoughts are:

1. I much prefer the FuturesBetting platform over IB. It seems to be a heck of a lot faster - especially in a fast market.

2. The twowayfutures bloke managed to get a product added to the platform for me in 2 days, so i like the service a lot.

3. when i had connectivity problems I could get through in 10 seconds to someone who knew about trading and they did exactly what i asked quickly and efficiently. the only time i tried that with IB it took 4 minutes to get through to someone and they charged me £20 becuase the problems was "my end!!".

4.The demo account at twowayfutures was not a demo - it is a full simulator environment. that means unlike the ib simulator i only got filled when i woudl have in real life. this was a massive benefit to me when testing out new entries/exits.

5. I started with £5k not £10k. i have more than £10k but i wanted to start small. I had a disaster 18 months ago with an overseas broker and didnt want that again.

i suppose the bottom line is i closed my IB account. This does NOT mean I think IB are rubbish, only that futuresbetting are better.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
A few facts:

1) You can open a IB account with £2000
2) TWS quotes are very fast
3) IB are regulated by the FSA in the UK

JonnyT
 
My understanding is that FuturesBetting don't provide an progranmming API whereas IB do, is this correct ie can I get streaming FuturesBetting prices into a spreadsheet?
 
A Dashing Blade said:
My understanding is that FuturesBetting don't provide an progranmming API whereas IB do, is this correct ie can I get streaming FuturesBetting prices into a spreadsheet?
Click to expand...

I am off to speak to the twowayfutures chaps on Thursday to discuss their API so I guess they do it but just have to find out amongst other things where the orders reside, in the market or on their platform.
 
There is an API. The platform is based on FFastfill so the API is identical to that. Depends on how sophisticated you want your systems to be.


I thought though that the point of this thread was not APIs and IB Vs Futures Betting but the simple fact that if you are a part time futures trader:

you pay tax with IB (and every other futures broker I can think of)

you don't with FB

and if you are a spread better who trades in size (i.e. not 1p a point at Finspreads) then you are probably better off at FB than anywhere else.

I'm not a tax expert (thank God). But I think I am correct here?
 
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