Futures trader

Paul Headland

Newbie
8 0
Hello all.

Just registered on this site, it was recommended by a friend.

I was hoping that someone could answer some questions about the futures market?

1] Is there any exams needed (or recommended) to trade within a trading arcade like "saxons" or "The Candlestick Trading" company?

2) What hours is the futures market open?

Sorry of this has been asked before but I havent seen it anywhere.

Thanks in advance.

P
 

TWI

Senior member
2,535 254
Quite a few arcades will insist you sit FSA exams and maybe Eurex exam too if you are trading those markets.
Liffe Hours are 7am-6pm
But if trading US markets such as CME globex you can go on 24hrs.
 

Paul Headland

Newbie
8 0
Thanks Twalker.

Has anyone heard of anything like "european derivatives trading exam"?

Im sure I read it somewhere but cant find where!
Thanks again.
P
 

TWI

Senior member
2,535 254
Probably the Eurex exam, if you trade Eurex you need it after a period of time.
 

Paul Headland

Newbie
8 0
Thanks for ypur help Twalker.

When the likes of Candlestick trading company and saxons train traders to trade the companies money what sort of capital is given? i.e £1000, £10,000.

What sort of percentage profit once trained would be expected or is likely?

Im trying to decide whether its something I may be interested in when I graduate in 2006! Long time yet but like to be prepared.

I am managing to find out most info on the Web and books but some thinggs arent covered, like the questions I have asked.

Alot of the companies aren't to keen to share this sort of info, I can see why though.

Not expecting anyone to divulge company secrets but just some ball park figures would be really helpful!

Thanks a gain.

P.
 

bokke

Newbie
9 0
hey

if you start after graduating dont realy need any cash to put down. They will finance it and as you get better they will let you trade larger size. In the begining you will get a loan each month which you have to pay back in the future with interest, which hopefully you are able to do if you do well. If you dont do well you owe them nothing but you find a new career! its a worthwhile gamble if youre young and just graduated. How did you hear of saxons and candlestick?
 

Paul Headland

Newbie
8 0
Bokke,

I realise the general situation about company accpunt trading, I am just looking for the details.

i.e, how much capital is allocated to you to trade with?

what is generally expected rate of return?

I found all my info about Saxons and The candlestick trading company on this website and a few others, mostly directed to by people on this website!!! Its all there it just takes a while to dig through everything to get the info, worth it though.
 

Paul Headland

Newbie
8 0
hello again.

A few more questions again!

Obviously the same places that take on grads also let private people sit downa and trade there own money.

From what I have read on here the costs are around £1500 per month, is that in the right area?

Not really something I would be interested in but still worth looking at!

Thanks again

P.
 

TWI

Senior member
2,535 254
That is about right, depends what is included re: trading platform, number exchanges, charting, analytics.
Desk fee is not main component of cost however, cost of transaction is more important as this will be your main cost per month.
 

bokke

Newbie
9 0
When you begin trading the main obstacle to making any money is the desk fees, and can seem a big hurdle to climb when trading small size. But once you can do that it becomes easier as your round turn cost decrease as your trading volume increases. Your trading rebates get big enough to easily cover your desk fees, and because you are trading big one trade can cover them too. So while it is important in the begining it has to be weighed up with the RT costs. You should ask what volume per month is needed to get charged certain rates, and whether this will be on all trades done in the month or only on the trades once you break the barrier. Some companies put the rebate barriers at levels that are hard to hit for even an average trader, but backdate them on all the trades. This looks attractive but if you dont hit it you get jack. so its a bit unfair as they milk the smaller traders. While other companies have much lower levels to hit to get onto the lowest cost round turn but these only include the new trades done once that level is passed. This in effect brings down the average cost of the trade as the volume increase. I prefer the later as most traders in the office have the same deal while it can be frustrating if the guy next to you has a different deal. Also the former can lead to overtrading as when you get near the rebat elevel it can be worth to you even losing money trading as the trading rebate will be larger.

hope that helps
 

Paul Headland

Newbie
8 0
Thanks Bokke.

So how much roughly do the arcades give the grads to trade with? £5K? £25K?

Do they then get to use margins and things? So if they have £5K they could trade £50K?

Thanks again.

P.
 

TWI

Senior member
2,535 254
Whatever they give you it will likely be nominal anyway and you will leverage it to get to the volumes you will be trading.Around 20k is reasonable.
 

bokke

Newbie
9 0
i wouldnt be too concerned what money they are going to let you play with. From my experience you start off trading one lots as your clip size with maybe a max risk position of 4 lots. you wouldnt need much cash to trade that size on your own prob about 3/4K. but as you get better you trade larger so if you were backing yourself you would need more money as margin. You could be trading a coupla hundred lots as a backed trader. The thing you would be interested in is your percentage of profits, and your round turn costs. And these will change as you get better because you have a track record to bargain with. And in the end you may want and be confident enough to be totally 100% backed by yourself, but if you blow up its your cash so there are different pressures.

The place you work at will have plenty of margin available, and they will be giving it to the people who are making money and letting you trade bigger, because it is in their interests as they are getting a percentage of your profits and a slice of your RT costs (larger size =more RT=more money for them)

Plus its not how much money they let you play with its how much money you make with it, there are guys out there who can trade a smaller size but make far more money than the guy they aresat next to. It can get a bit too much of an ego thing the size you trade. So dont get to caught up in it

the rate of return they will want is for you too cover your trading costs (not desk fees)as quickly as possible, so if ur trading on 1 lots and ur costs are either 1 pund/euro per trade and each tick you make gives you 10 euros/pounds then to cover your RT you need to make a tick every ten trades ie 10% hit rate. The next step is to cover your desk fees so your hit rate will have to be above 10% and the difference will be your profit which hopefully pays your desk fees and leaves you some cash. As you get better your costs can decrease to say 6% so your profit gets larger without you changing your trading style. So its hard in the beginning but once you break through it becomes much easier. Depending on your deal (firm)you may have no desk fees in the begining or at least subsidised which helps as it gives you breathing space.

hope that helps you
 
 
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