Futures broker - any recommendations?

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def said:
Bull,
if you took the time to read the policy on IB's web site, you'd perhaps understand things better. The high tech system did not fail and the liquidation went according to procedure.

$4 in commission doesn't make a difference for a high volume trader, you're kidding me. I'll agree though the 1-10 cents is crucial and you'll get much better fills using an electronic broker.

you now claim you're a market maker in options but earlier you state that you place your orders via the phone via your full service broker. sure, sure you are.
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I do both, did you know that there is MORE than one mrk mkr? I also give prices to brokers.

Also brokers get prices from other MM and in some cases i take the prems from other traders at the price i quoted because they[ traders] chose my price.
 
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Def,
Read yur posts to me. You said if your on margin call, your positions are liquidated!
You also said theres NO days grace given if yur on margin call! Do you remember saying that?
So why close positions and no grace TIME given?
You also said that you cannot convert positions if they are on marg-call. You said marg-calls have to be settled first on positions before you would be allowed to convert! Your words!
I dont need to spend hours looking for the answers to my questions when ive got you to give direct answers to direct questions.

Your first paragraph says you will liquidate!!
 
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Def, your post below from page No5

I don't see the hang-up you have with margin. First this thread is about FUTURES. Second, all the information you request is available on the IB web site. This is not a customer support forum for IB. Nevertheless, since you continue to attack me, I've pasted the information below from our web site. I've already answered that we do not charge over the SPAN margin requirements of the exchange where you said you'd pay me $1000 and switch all 5 (why 5?) of your accounts to our firm. I'm sure you won't adhere to your side of the bargain. The paste below should answer your questions. If it doesn't please send a mail to [email protected] if you are seriously considering opening an account. Since you are not, please give it a rest.


IB Margin Overview


IB calculates initial margin requirements at the time of each trade, maintenance margin requirements on a real-time basis, and Reg T margin at the end of each day, and will liquidate positions on a real-time basis if there is a margin deficiency. Real-time margining allows IB to maintain low commissions because IB does not have to spread the cost of credit losses to customers like other non-automated brokers.

All of the calculations below as well as other real-time account statistics can be found in the TWS account window. For a detailed description of the account window and its underlying calculations, see the TWS User's Guide.

It should be noted that all liquidation are subject to the normal commission schedule. Advisor clients will not be subject to advisor fees for any liquidating transaction.

New Position Margin Calculations

Upon submission of an order request, a check is made against real-time available funds. If available funds including the order request >=0 the order is submitted, if it is negative the order is rejected. The following calculations are used to determine available funds:

Securities available funds = Securities equity with loan value - Securities initial margin requirement.

Commodities available funds = Commodities net liquidation value - Commodities initial margin requirement

In addition, you are required to have a minimum of $2,000 or USD equivalent of securities equity with loan value or commodities net liquidation value to open a new position.

Maintenance Margin Calculations

On a real-time basis, excess liquidity is checked to ensure that it's >=0, if it is negative the account is subject to liquidation on a real-time basis. The following calculations are used to determine excess liquidity:

Securities excess liquidity = Securities equity with loan value - Securities maintenance margin requirements

Commodities excess liquidity = Commodities net liquidation value - Commodities maintenance margin requirements

Reg T End of Day Margin Calculations

At the end of each US trading day (15:50-16:00 ET), a Special Memorandum Account (SMA) is checked to ensure that it's > =0, if it is negative the account is subject to liquidation. In addition, no cash withdrawal will be allowed that causes SMA to go negative on a real-time basis. SMA is calculated for all securities (stocks and options) regardless of country of trading as follows:

Special Memorandum Account=Maximum ((Equity with Loan Value - initial margin requirements*), (Prior Day SMA +/- change in day's cash +/- initial margin requirements**))

*
Calculated at the end of the day under US margin rules.
** Calculated at the time of the trade under US margin rules.
Margin Models

Margin requirements are calculated either on a rules basis or a risk basis.

For rule based margin systems, predefined, static calculations are applied to each position or predefined groups of positions (“strategies”). The following instruments are margined using rule based margins:

US stocks, index options, and stock options

Canadian stocks, index options, and stock options

Dutch index and stock options
The calculations for each of these products are described under the Trading/Margin pulldown menu.

For risk based margin systems, exchanges consider the maximum one day risk on all the positions in a complete portfolio, or subportfolio together (for example, a future and all the options delivering that future). The general calculation method is as follows:

Exchange assigns scanning ranges for price movements, volatility shifts, and other risk directions. The ranges are based on observations of historical performance of the underlying instrument.

Every instrument (stock/option/future) is valued over the ranges of price, volatility, etc. The resultant value matrix is distributed to Interactive Brokers on a daily basis.

IB values the (sub)portfolio over the matrix and determines the worst case scenario loss using standard models approved by the exchange.

The margin is calculated as the difference between the current portfolio value and the worst case value
Margin requirements for each underlying are listed on the appropriate exchange site for the contract. A summary of the requirements for the major futures contract requirements as well as links to the exchange sites is available on our Futures Margin Requirements page.

Restriction on Leverage

There is a real-time check on overall position leverage, as follows: The Gross Position Value cannot be more than 50 times the Adjusted Net Liquidation Value. Alternatively, this can be expressed as:

2% securities gross position value > Net liquidation value - Futures option value
Liquidations may occur if the Gross Position Value exceeds more than 50 times the liquidation value.

Universal Account

Although the Universal AccountSM should be viewed as a single account for trading and account monitoring purposes, for regulatory and segregation purposes, there exists a separate securities and commodities account. If there is a margin deficit in either your securities or commodities account, cash will be immediately transferred to protect the margin deficit. At the end of each day, any excess cash in your commodities account will be swept to your securities account.
 
you are wasting my time (and I'm sure others as well) as this is getting very old....

"Maintenance Margin Calculations

On a real-time basis, excess liquidity is checked to ensure that it's >=0, if it is negative the account is subject to liquidation on a real-time basis. The following calculations are used to determine excess liquidity:"

the word subject to liquidation means that it is subject to liquidation. if you had an account with us and read your client agreement, you'd understand more. for now, i'll leave it that liquidation times can vary depending on time of day and even market conditions. And as I'm sure most on these boards understood, no grace period means that you can not send in funds the following day to cover a current day margin call.
 
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Bulldozer said:
IB INFACT LIQUIDATED THE POSITION OVER ONE HOUR LATER
This is the quote of yours which is clearly wrong that I corrected. Presumably you are unaware of u.s. hours?

IB comms for a UK option contract are £1.70 ($1 for us contracts). This is an enormous difference from your "under £5" and for a high volume player can easily be make or break.

You are a strange chap, with your closed mind and overblown ego.

Why are you not content to continue to have your hand held (expensively) over the phone with your full service broker, while leaving the rest of us to move into the 21st century with fast electronic trading at hugely less cost?

pete
 
You keep avoiding the questions that WAS asked several times [see post 139]
WHY WAS DEV 17 YOUR CLIENT LIQUIDATED ON MONDAY?
Just to remind you, he was closed out with 600+ SECONDS delay on 16 contracts on Goog.

I have copied the post and pasted it on here again so you would not to have to waste time looking for it.

Post 139:
Mr Def,
Where is your reply to the question on the 600 + SECONDS DELAY to close position? AND WHY WAS POSITION CLOSED?????????? PLZ REPLY! and what can you possibly say if it was 100 + contracts and not just 16?
 
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peto said:
[

This is the quote of yours which is clearly wrong that I corrected. Presumably you are unaware of u.s. hours?

IB comms for a UK option contract are £1.70 ($1 for us contracts). This is an enormous difference from your "under £5" and for a high volume player can easily be make or break.

You are a strange chap, with your closed mind and overblown ego.

Why are you not content to continue to have your hand held (expensively) over the phone with your full service broker, while leaving the rest of us to move into the 21st century with fast electronic trading at hugely less cost?

pete
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READ MY POST 138 AGAIN!!

WHATS £5 ON A ONE CONTRACT THAT BRINGS IN £500-£10,000 i WOULD EVEN PAY £10 FOR THAT KIND OF RETURN! CUT THE CRAP!! WE ARE NOT ALL FOOLS.
UK BROKERS WILL CHARGE YOU LESS THAN £10 PER CONTRACT EVEN IF THE PREMIUM TAKEN OR PAID IS £10,000
Dev 17 would not have suffered all that loss if he was with a UK broker and possibly no loss at all because he would have been closed out on friday!
 
bulldozer said:
You keep avoiding the questions that were asked several times [see post 139]
WHY WAS DEV 17 YOUR CLIENT LIQUIDATED ON MONDAY?
Just to remind you, he was closed out with 600+ delay on 16 contracts on Goog.

I have copied the post and pasted it on here again so you would not to have to waste time looking for it.

Post 139:
Mr Def,
Where is your reply to the question on the 600 + SECONDS DELAY to close position? AND WHY WAS POSITION CLOSED?????????? PLZ REPLY! and what can you possibly say if it was 100 + contracts and not just 16?

you are unreal. nonetheless....

1. the market was closed
2. OCC clearing reports are not delivered until AFTER options expire.
3. normal procedures were followed
4. if you have to ask the question about 100 contracts, you need some assistance with math.
 
bulldozer said:
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UK BROKERS WILL CHARGE YOU LESS THAN £10 PER CONTRACT

Oh god it gets worse! And I thought £5 was bad!

If Dev 17 had any real knowledge of how to trade Options then the problem would not have arisen.

You clearly share his ignorance so I strongly advise you to stay with your current broker, they will be able to tell you what to look out for. Or better still give up trading until you really understand what you are doing.

Pete
 
Friends and members dont be fooled by these guys.

Check out many brokers and thier rules on liquidating positions and on margin and what is allowed if position is on margin call. Ask are you allowed to adjust options, strategy, without settling the marg first etc etc. Dont become a client of any broker just because they are cheap.
In most cases "cheap" is BAD and COSTLY!! Dont take my word for it ask Dev 17 and all the others on those links ive provided.
Happy trading

Bull
 
peto said:
Oh god it gets worse! And I thought £5 was bad!

If Dev 17 had any real knowledge of how to trade Options then the problem would not have arisen.

You clearly share his ignorance so I strongly advise you to stay with your current broker, they will be able to tell you what to look out for. Or better still give up trading until you really understand what you are doing.

Pete

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You think your smart? :cheesy:

Let me xplain for the benefit of the viewers:
If your account is under £5,000 you will be charged between £4 and £10 per contract even if the premium is £3,000 to £10,000 your max commisions will be £10 .Full service

If your account is £20,000+ your commissions will be between £3.00 and £5. full service

If your account is over £100,000 with FULL SERVICE at under £3

and you wont go thru what Dev 17 went thru . Uk brokers would not be affraid to spend 50 PENCE or £5 to ring Dev 17 on friday and warned him of his predicament! they always act in the clients best interest. IB could have rang him and spent a $ or 2 but the monkeys they employ didnt bother because they just dont give a damn!!!!

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?threadid=53285&perpage=6&pagenumber=9

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?threadid=51251

Saving a few cents or one $ or two is not important to an option trader! whats important is the SERVICE and rules and IB dont provide the service suited for an good option player or for the novice.



Bull
 
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Drop your price another 50%, give me an electronic platform with split-second execution, with real time streaming prices so I can see the market, and you still won't come close...
 
Dev 17 should have used a full service broker if he doesn't know the basics of trading.

Or not trade at all.
 
peto said:
Dev 17 should have used a full service broker if he doesn't know the basics of trading.

Or not trade at all.
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You have heard it from the horses mouth and not me!

IB DONT PROVIDE A FULL SERVICE FOR THE EXPERIENCED OR THE NOVICE OPTION TRADER :cheesy: :cool: When infact the novice needs it more! and to make things worse, most of IB clients are novices anyway. :rolleyes: :LOL:

THANKS PETO! interesting info! :cheesy:

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?threadid=51251

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?threadid=53285&perpage=6&pagenumber=9
 
Good to see we understand each other at last!

When you've learn't the basics let me know and I'll help you to move on to electronic platforms.

I will not post on this thread again.

pete
 
peto said:
Good to see we understand each other at last!

When you've learn't the basics let me know and I'll help you to move on to electronic platforms.

I will not post on this thread again.

pete
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The reality is that Dev 17 LOST HEAVILY in order to save himself around $100 in commisions.

You cant teach me a thing! May i suggest you go back to yur sprdbtg scalping a few points and save your precious $2-3 in commision with a broker that DONT provide a FULL SERVICE for a couple of $'s more in commisions and CANT afford to pay a few cents to phone and allert one of their clients that his positions need closing or remind him that xpiry is the next day and not on friday, as the client thought it was. 16 options contracts on GOOG and not one of their STAFFor their HIGH TECH system spotted the danger! :devilish: My advice to novices doing options GET OUT of IB before IB GETS YOU OUT OF THE MARKET AND YOUR HOME WITH HUGE LOSES! and may also ruin your health and yur marriage! If you have not read the story of dev17 perhaps you should and see what really happened. :rolleyes:

IB is for novices! and their sytems cannot be trusted and they employ monkeys who cannot be bothered to ring a client to save him HUGE loses! In short they dont give a DAMN about the client or his money! :devilish: or their health!

Friends/members
Find good brokers that have the clients BEST interest at heart and not just the company's :!:
But heres the catch! you may have to pay 1-3 dollars more for that service :LOL: :cool: WOW what a big price to pay. :LOL: :cheesy:


Learn learn learn b4 U earn and learn the margin rules too!!!!!!!!!!!
Sorry about the screaming but i had to get it thru your heads guys :LOL: :cheesy:

Dev 17 experience with IB click below:

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?threadid=51251

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?threadid=53285&perpage=6&pagenumber=9

Bull
 
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bulldozer said:
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The reality is that Dev 17 LOST HEAVILY in order to save himself around $100 in commisions.

You cant teach me a thing! May i suggest you go back to yur sprdbtg scalping a few points and save your precious $2-3 in commision with a broker that DONT provide a FULL SERVICE for a couple of $'s more in commisions and CANT afford to pay a few cents to phone and allert one of their clients that his positions need closing or remind him that xpiry is the next day and not on friday, as the client thought it was. 16 options contracts on GOOG and not one of their STAFFor their HIGH TECH system spotted the danger!

Dev 17 experience with IB click below:

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?threadid=51251

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?threadid=53285&perpage=6&pagenumber=9

Bull


Why would a broker (especially a computerized broker with instant buying power calculations) let a customer purchase 1600 shares of GOOG with and $800 account? This is almost 1/2 million dollars on $800 dollars; generous margin even by "Long Tem Capital" standards. I can see novices making mistakes or not knowing what they got into, but I know none of my accounts would let me buy a 1/2 million dollars with an $800 balance???

Then the loss came out to be roughly the same size as his other non IRA account??? To strange to be believed, unless IB used his other account balance when assessing the trade risk and was on the other side of the trade. For a computerized trading platform this should have been rejected for lack of sufficient funds on any trading planet.
 
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urep said:
Why would a broker (especially a computerized broker with instant buying power calculations) let a customer purchase 1600 shares of GOOG with and $800 account? This is almost 1/2 million dollars on $800 dollars; generous margin even by "Long Tem Capital" standards. I can see novices making mistakes or not knowing what they got into, but I know none of my accounts would let me buy a 1/2 million dollars with an $800 balance???

Then the loss came out to be roughly the same size as his other non IRA account??? To strange to be believed, unless IB used his other account balance when assessing the trade risk and was on the other side of the trade. For a computerized trading platform this should have been rejected for lack of sufficient funds on any trading planet.
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BRAVO!
At last someone with brains in the right place!

I dont think the two accounts combined would have been enough to cover such risk!

My argument is this:>> Why didn't those monkeys or their computers or system pick up the danger and if they did? why did they NOT spend 50 cents or ONE dollar to ring their client? Is a dollar to expensive for the brokers to part with? OR is it that they just DONT give a DAMN?! :rolleyes:
 
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