"Forced Discipline"

[Doomberg]

Ok so we've all been there, your 1 position goes against you, you can't emotionally let it get stopped and you add to it as you are adamant it will return in your favor and before you know it you have 5 of your normal positions open.... it goes against you even further and then you widen your stops up to a ridiculous level and think "what will be will be, i either blow my account or make a fortune" - And of course for being such an idiot you blow your account, 16 hours later you wake up behind a skip in a dingy alley way covered in sick with an empty vodka bottle clasped in your cold hands.

Anyway :cheesy:

Apparently Infinity Futures have something called Forced Discipline, it helps take the emotion out of things and you can limit yourself to say 1 contract, until you have doubled your account, and then you can call up and have it increased to two, furthermore you can have say a limit for the day of losses, and when that is hit your account is locked. It may seem a bit sad to be "disciplined" by your broker, but ridiculous behavior is where i seem to slip up, if my emotions get the better of me i REALLY struggle to keep my cool.

Anyone tried this type of service?

 

[trendie]

Not tried it. Dont get it, either.

Its not forced discipline, its abdicated discipline.
You are simply dumping the burden of responsibility onto someone elses shoulders.

its no different to expecting the bartender to decide for you you've had enough to drink.
Or blaming McDonalds for being fat for letting you stuff your face full of burgers.

If you need forced discipline, you're not ready to trade.

 

[the hare]

Although I tend to agree with trendie, this would be a useful safety net if trading automated systems. I personally lost a great deal through failures in technology (my fault entirely), some sort of limit at the broker side would be useful.

I'd use it anyway.

 

[trendie]

And another thing.......

The forced discipline concept may prevent you from going mad, and prevent you from taking bad trades.

But what about forcing you to take good trades?

What if,
you have a sequence of losing trades,
you are within your loss parameters,
a signal for next trade appears!

Who is going to "force discipline" you take the next signal?
Do you expect your broker to phone you up and instruct you to trade?

It all comes back down to you!

 

[wackypete2]

Not tried it. Dont get it, either.

Its not forced discipline, its abdicated discipline.
You are simply dumping the burden of responsibility onto someone elses shoulders.

its no different to expecting the bartender to decide for you you've had enough to drink.
Or blaming McDonalds for being fat for letting you stuff your face full of burgers.

If you need forced discipline, you're not ready to trade.

Your posts are a bit harsh there , trendie

It's just a tool mostly for newer traders until they understand the leverage concept so they don't blow their accounts, or for intermediate traders temporarily so they can get back on track. It has nothing to do with taking the next trade after a series of losses, etc...

Plenty of prop shops and pseudo prop shops start their new traders with some form of this.

Give the OP some credit. He recognizes his problem and is trying to do something about it rather than come on here and b1tch about how the broker is taking all his money like so many others do.

Peter

 

[Doomberg]

And another thing.......

The forced discipline concept may prevent you from going mad, and prevent you from taking bad trades.

But what about forcing you to take good trades?

What if,
you have a sequence of losing trades,
you are within your loss parameters,
a signal for next trade appears!

Who is going to "force discipline" you take the next signal?
Do you expect your broker to phone you up and instruct you to trade?

It all comes back down to you!

Pete summed it up, working the market out for me is much easier than controlling my emotions, i feel that this option can only benefit me

Will have a journal up at some time in the new year :clover:

 

[BeginnerJoe]

If you need to force it, you are doing it wrong. Look for a different way. Same strat works for other things in life.

 

[Doomberg]

If you need to force it, you are doing it wrong. Look for a different way. Same strat works for other things in life.

Nice profile pic Joe

But tbh you're incorrect, i'm sure a lot of traders may have nailed MM, we all have good and bad trading qualities...

Controlling my emotions isn't one of them, or not yet anyway

 

[BeginnerJoe]

Controlling my emotions isn't one of them, or not yet anyway

If you pounce and strike like a cat, emotions needn't be involved. If you have a cat, watch how it does it when you play with it with a fake mouse. I don't think the problem lies with the emotions.

 

[isatrader]

Out of interest Doomberg, do you know what Infinity's fees per contract are, or per round turn on the ES or YM? As I can't see them on their website.

 

[Doomberg]

Out of interest Doomberg, do you know what Infinity's fees per contract are, or per round turn on the ES or YM? As I can't see them on their website.

I was looking to trade the dow and euro so didn't ask... but they are very flexible, the guy said they don't put the prices on the site because they are very flexible... they matched Velocities prices when i asked if they could which was knocking about 20% off his original quote for the Dow

 

[Doomberg]

If you pounce and strike like a cat, emotions needn't be involved. If you have a cat, watch how it does it when you play with it with a fake mouse. I don't think the problem lies with the emotions.

Lol 3 people on this page all with cat pics... and where do you think the problem lies?

 

[BeginnerJoe]

Lol 3 people on this page all with cat pics... and where do you think the problem lies?

Well mine isn't supposed to be a cat. I was looking for a pounce posture. I had in mind a tiger, a leopard, or even a cheetah. But a cat was all I could find. I have grown rather fond of the cat now - it's starting to catch mice for me.

I think the problem lies with your strat not giving you sufficient confidence. Perhaps try something else for size, or modify what you've got until it fits. Also, a universal solution for most trading problems is to reduce trade size.

 

[isatrader]

I was looking to trade the dow and euro so didn't ask... but they are very flexible, the guy said they don't put the prices on the site because they are very flexible... they matched Velocities prices when i asked if they could which was knocking about 20% off his original quote for the Dow

YM is the E-mini Dow ($5 per point), so that's what I was looking for, and imagine ES will be the same as they are usually grouped together for pricing on other sites like Mirus. Thanks.

 

[Doomberg]

YM is the E-mini Dow ($5 per point), so that's what I was looking for, and imagine ES will be the same as they are usually grouped together for pricing on other sites like Mirus. Thanks.

As low as $3.5 per round trip mate, was quoted $5 at 1st

What's ES like to trade? I've heard a lot but not tried

 

[isatrader]

As low as $3.5 per round trip mate, was quoted $5 at 1st

What's ES like to trade? I've heard a lot but not tried

That doesn't sound bad. Mirus quotes $2.11 per contract on their site for the ES, YM and NQ, so $4.22 per round trip, and I'll trialed with them on Ninjatrader with the Zenfire data live demo for a month a few months back, and I had a go on Prospreads demo as well. I can see why the ES is so popular with day traders as it is very liquid during the US market hours, and because of that you can do really small trades. A 1 tick move on the ES is 0.25 index points, and it's $12.50 per tick. So a 1 point move on the ES is 4 x $12.50 = $50 per point.

I've found that the ES moves quite cleanly, I'm guessing due to the much larger liquidity it has than the YM or the NQ. Both of which can be a little bit more spikey. So you can have much tighter stops on the ES.

I'm still testing a strategy for an automated method that targets a 4 tick move on the ES or 10 tick move on the YM, which is going well so far. But I want to move to a live futures account soon as I think I'm about ready to dip my toe in the bigger pool.

 

[Doomberg]

I'll take a look at the ES Isa... are you on Skype?

 

[isatrader]

No not on Skype. Just old fashioned email, so PM me if you want that to chat.