Economist careers

[amit1986]

yeah calculus of functions of multiple variables is pretty much it.

So things like differential equations and integration, optimisation, matrix methods, stuff like that.

The application of these methods are the easiest part of an economics degree. If you take courses in econometrics, game theory, auction theory, etc..., then the math isn't only what Dash says, but also includes theoretical concepts such as vector spaces, Euclidean geometry and topology. It can get quite heavy at times.

 

[Chartsy]

The application of these methods are the easiest part of an economics degree. If you take courses in econometrics, game theory, auction theory, etc..., then the math isn't only what Dash says, but also includes theoretical concepts such as vector spaces, Euclidean geometry and topology. It can get quite heavy at times.

I'm a little worried about the mathematical side of being an economist, will i learn what i need to know during the degree?

 

[amit1986]

I'm a little worried about the mathematical side of being an economist, will i learn what i need to know during the degree?

They will teach you whatever you need to know for an undergraduate degree. However, if you plan on pursuing a PhD (which you need to if you want to be an economist), then I recommend you double major in economics and math at your university. Ask your econ department about what math courses you should take concurrent to your econ courses. Briefly, you should definitely take:

1) Calculus I & II
2) Linear Algebra I & II
3) Partial and Ordinary Differential Equations
4) Proofs
5) Real Analysis; and
6) Non-linear Optimization

 

[Chartsy]

They will teach you whatever you need to know for an undergraduate degree. However, if you plan on pursuing a PhD (which you need to if you want to be an economist), then I recommend you double major in economics and math at your university. Ask your econ department about what math courses you should take concurrent to your econ courses. Briefly, you should definitely take:

1) Calculus I & II
2) Linear Algebra I & II
3) Partial and Ordinary Differential Equations
4) Proofs
5) Real Analysis; and
6) Non-linear Optimization

lol i take it up to AS level maths wouldn't cut it? i've done calculus,linear algebra...that's about it, obvusly i'll have to take more courses to get competent at maths ( only sitting on a high B at as level )

 

[DashRiprock]

well yes, if you wanted to go down that route there are plenty of maths courses that you will come across, I just didn;t want to scare you off it.

But I would also say that you can also do economics with things like global political economy, international relations, politics etc - these are just as applicable to the role of an economist, just specialising in a different arena.

ultimately it depends on where you go I spose.

 

[DashRiprock]

lol i take it up to AS level maths wouldn't cut it? i've done calculus,linear algebra...that's about it, obvusly i'll have to take more courses to get competent at maths ( only sitting on a high B at as level )

hmm no you'll definately need an A at a level maths to get into a good school. Maybe a/s in further maths too, plus economics and fill it out with geography (easy).

 

[cr6196]

i think you need to find out what your best at...for example, law and economist require very different skills. or to put it more accurately, when you study them at uni they require very different skills (for the most part). looking at the subjects your taking would suggest that you would be better not doing law. basically, though none of the stuff at uni is particularly challenging its about doing the thing that you enjoy and are best at. until you answer that question i wouldn't bother asking lawyer or economist. one step at a time. you shouldn't look at average salary either...if you want to be average, then don't bother and go work in tescos.

to add, as has already been mentioned, if you want to be an economist that would mean doing a Phd and you would most likely be an "academic" rather than whatever else you think it may be.

 

[Chartsy]

i came first in gcse economics, and just got 95% in the microeconomics module, this is mostly essay writing though and the most of the maths was calculating elasticity. Queens' university belfast is where i want t go, which is ABB for economics, witha gcse A required in maths(i got an A)

i got 79 in the maths , 80 was the minimum to get an A- this was the pure maths module, and i can remember exactly a 5 marker which i just had a dur moment which lost me getting just over an A ( i was given points e.g. (x+2) (x+4), and asked to plot the parabola, instead of the damn obvious instant x=-2/-4, i multiplied the brackets out and tried to factorise them, even though they were already factorised!)

 

[cr6196]

right thats my point. As a student, I still vaguely remember my GCSEs, I did well in Chemistry but i'm not doing anything remotely related to that as a degree and if i did, i would fail miserably. all that was required for me to do well was to have some vague understanding of an exam on Chemistry. as a young person i can empathize with your confusion between exams and actual talent but there is a big difference.

to break it down more as i studied law and econ at uni. law = abstract, creative thought, lots of writing, reading and thinking. econ = structured, patient application of models in quite a maths kind of style. although it can require creative thought depending on what context your studying it in i.e econometrics or PPE. so they are different and exams are vaguely related but not always, so i meant "best" in more abstract terms.

 

[Chartsy]

Thanks, the problem is I think i'm more interested in economics, but more suited to law,given i'm a good writer, ca b creative and analytical/critical when researching documents, but i'm not realy interested in boring law, and i pretty much hate the thought of fearless public speaking , i can do presentations, like just regurgitating a script but it's the quick on-your-feet skill in a courtroom i don't think i have, i mumble and get a bit nervous.

That's also why i wanted to combine my LOVE for markets/trading/economies with some form of law, which i still haven't really found the answer to.Another thing is law is very expensive, i think now it would be around £35k all in all to become a solicitor, though i think it would be worth it

 

[DashRiprock]

you can make an absolute packet in commercial law. People in IBs aren't the only people in the world that can make loadsa money.

 

[cr6196]

yes, i have a friend in commercial law and its definetly a notch or two above IB. However, the thing is you need to be good...if your such a good writer, why are you doing maths and science? everyone who i know who went into law mostly did essay-based subjects before or even did history at uni first.

the other thing is that commercial law may not be what you think. for example, if you didn't find the BP/Rosneft arbitration interesting, you won't like commercial law. it is more linked to investment banking like corp finance and M&A and at the very periphery asset management. which doesn't really fit with what you seem to be interested in. to be blunt, economics isn't related to commercial law. however, i can see how the economics you do now would be. economics at uni isn't about essays. public speaking isn't important.

 

[Chartsy]

yes, i have a friend in commercial law and its definetly a notch or two above IB. However, the thing is you need to be good...if your such a good writer, why are you doing maths and science? everyone who i know who went into law mostly did essay-based subjects before or even did history at uni first.

the other thing is that commercial law may not be what you think. for example, if you didn't find the BP/Rosneft arbitration interesting, you won't like commercial law. it is more linked to investment banking like corp finance and M&A and at the very periphery asset management. which doesn't really fit with what you seem to be interested in. to be blunt, economics isn't related to commercial law. however, i can see how the economics you do now would be. economics at uni isn't about essays. public speaking isn't important.

Hmm i considered economics as a very essay-based subject given that's all it's about at my level, and i think it's good as you're taught to evaluate,analyse and get some weighting to data/opinions. And at the time i didn't consider law and wanted to be a full time trader , but wanted to gain as wide a career spread as possible by getting a science, maths , err whatever geography is, and economics.

Commercial law doesn't sound very interesting. I want a kind of law that deals with financial markets in some way, i'm sorry for being so vague because i don't know myself what i would want to do within securities law .

Or rather; some form of career in which i work around financial markets and my ability to forecast them is not my career , so no analyst kind of jobs or adviser, taking in mind my negotiation skills are pretty ****

 

[cr6196]

right so basically, if you don't want to deal with companies, you want to work for the FSA? the best thing is to make a good choice about your degree which allows you to get the best mark with the least effort. you are doing mostly non essay subjects tho, unless you've picked the wrong subjects, that should be a signal.

the other thing is most analysts or traders aren't george soros...you don't have to be a genius to work at the banks. most people who work there are average and their forecasting skills are just as average. look at back and middle office for IBs or accountancy or something...but if you scared of responsibility then...thats what business is, you live and die by your results, thats life. for example, if your an economist your subject to your forecasts, if your a lawyer, your last case (or whatever)

 

[Chartsy]

right so basically, if you don't want to deal with companies, you want to work for the FSA? the best thing is to make a good choice about your degree which allows you to get the best mark with the least effort. you are doing mostly non essay subjects tho, unless you've picked the wrong subjects, that should be a signal.

the other thing is most analysts or traders aren't george soros...you don't have to be a genius to work at the banks. most people who work there are average and their forecasting skills are just as average. look at back and middle office for IBs or accountancy or something...but if you scared of responsibility then...thats what business is, you live and die by your results, thats life.

Hmm, you make a good point. I gotta be a man! Well, how about this; i'd rather trade alongside a job which is closely involved with markets, i'm hugely interested in forex and am beginning to become consistent after 2.5 years.

Maybe becoming an analyst would be suited to me, it's responsiblity, but hardly much considering that when you're a lawyer you've got the responsibility of keeping people from getting put in jail for 10 years.MY god i need to make my mind up.

 

[DashRiprock]

look mate. Ive never been an HR person but from experience I can say that if being a trader is actually what you want to be (not a PM, or an analyst, but the bugger that executes orders) then it wont really matter what your degree is in.

If you want to make calls like "buy euro stop xx tgt yy" then you can find jobs like these in the city, but remember the rule of "publish or perish". That isnt what traders on the sell side do.

another thing, if you are essay based, it probably means that you deal in subjects where the answers are fuzzy (at least fuzzier than maths), so do not rule out being a salesman. banks dont make no money if they aint got no customers ffs.

 

[Chartsy]

To be honest it depends on how confident i am in my trading , right now at 17 i can't honestly say i'd be confident to manage a $1 million prop account, but after a degree, 3/4 years time then things may be different.

As i've said, you can take a degree in something other than law and do law afterwards, my cousin knows people with physics/biology degrees who did family law after that. I think given that i can't really make my mind up between law/some financial market career/full time trading, it would be best to take an economics degree which leaves doors open to all paths, whereas with a law degree you wouldn't easily get into a currency analyst (or whatever) in a bank.

 

[DashRiprock]

To be honest it depends on how confident i am in my trading , right now at 17 i can't honestly say i'd be confident to manage a $1 million prop account, but after a degree, 3/4 years time then things may be different.

oh yea?

As i've said, you can take a degree in something other than law and do law afterwards, my cousin knows people with physics/biology degrees who did family law after that. I think given that i can't really make my mind up between law/some financial market career/full time trading, it would be best to take an economics degree which leaves doors open to all paths, whereas with a law degree you wouldn't easily get into a currency analyst (or whatever) in a bank.

good decision
just get up to scratch on your maths, you can't avoid it.

GL

 

[Masquerade]

To be honest it depends on how confident i am in my trading , right now at 17 i can't honestly say i'd be confident to manage a $1 million prop account, but after a degree, 3/4 years time then things may be different.

I did an Economics degree. I can tell you now that it won't give you confidence to risk your own money. It's just one of those things you're going to have to learn by doing and really doesn't require academic credentials, it's more about personality traits than anything else.

 

[Chartsy]

I did an Economics degree. I can tell you now that it won't give you confidence to risk your own money. It's just one of those things you're going to have to learn by doing and really doesn't require academic credentials, it's more about personality traits than anything else.

When i say after a degree things will be different i mean the time rather than 'learning the funnymentals', i trade primarily the daily chart trends and have been getting some serious mentoring but i want a backup, because psychologically knowing if i fail at trading i can enter law puts less pressure on the need to get good NOW. I have about 5 years to get proficient enough at trading to go prop or not.