Dow timings

Peter

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This May be of interest to anyone interested in trying to time the market.

After the last two weeks remarkable 700 point rally that has now
broke the 10362 September 7th top, I have to say that I am somewhat
temporary uncertain what to expect next. From the yearly February
19th top the market had made 3 main lower swing tops on April
6th/7th .. June 24th and September 7th.. It had been still in a
bearish mode although there wasnt a great range formed compared to
recent past years. The Market had been a bit tricky in my opinion to
determine as there was some signs no doubt of a possible
consolidation with what appears as a long term bullish flag chart
formation. On the SPX there was what looked like an inverse head and
should pattern that formed. So far the SPX has now broke to new
yearly highs. The Dow looks weaker of the two markets, but whats just
happened doesnt make it an easy answer.

What was rather annoying is that I had a great cycle in during August for a Low on the Dow, BUT the Dow didnt hold on that cycle and went lower to Oct 25th.. BUT the SPX did hold..
The next cycle I had on the dow had been 15th to 18th which didnt work, BUT I did have the next one in on the 26th Oct that did seem to start the main boost of this 2 week rally.

Now having seen the recent rally one has to ask is this the start of
another bull run OR is it going to catch the bulls out and turn out
as a bear trap.

Whats happened for now has put me in a temporary neutral mode based
on certain swing chart patterns that I use. With the SPX at new highs
above ALL the last main swing tops of the year and the Dow Now above
the Septembers top of 10362 this has offset my bearish view until I
see a few other things occurr.

Firstly Will the Dow maintain this rally into this week OR will it
reverse back down.

2nd If it maintains its rally.. Will it main continue up AFTER the
November 17th to 19th time frame ? Which I believe will be an
important time frame this month due to numerous cycles that I have
during this period. IF it topped out here at one of my price levels
that I have in mind then I would still think the market could sell
off.

If the market does decline this week WE MAY see another important Low
around 17th to 19th and the market MAY continue up again later in the
month.





If the market breaks the recent 10400 level Ive 10500 to 10600 in
mind. Below is an extract from another post I made recently with
various price Support and resistance levels that I have in mind.

Apart from over this weekend / Monday next week I dont have very many
good looking cycles, So Id like to see a reversal back down next week
IF the market fails to make new highs on the 8th,

The following weeks a different story. The 17th looks very
interesting !

On the Dow its hit between the 61.8 and 66.6% retracement of 10752 to
9702 of 1050 pt range. The 61.8 retrace was around 10350 and the 66.6
% retrace is 10400.
At one time the dow often seemed to react to the 66.6% retrace of
range moves IMO.
BUT Apart from timing I dont have great other indicators to back it
up.
My next indicator points to between 10500 to 10600 if we start higher
above Fridays highs.

Other possible support areas if we go higher are 10444 (70.7% R ) and
10500 to 10527 ( 78.6% R ) The 10527 area looks most promising based
on 2 or 3 main indicators I use. I also had several trendlines
pointing here a few weeks ago before the mkt fell below 9800.

My problem is IF the market delines to what level. I cant see it
greatly declining just next week Now new highs have been made on Both
SPX and DOW.

10233, 10130 ( 38.2% R ) or 10050 the 50% retrace...61.8 % R = 9971
and 9937 = 66.6 % R

Id be surprised if we went below 10,000 next week HOWEVER Mondays
cycle could see a similar move to that between the last 2 trade days
and IF cycles come in the following week as Lower tops below 10400
then the mkt could maintain again to new lows.


I do have some other Important times for Monday 8th, I hope to add
them before the cash market opens.. I have a bit of a problem at the
moment on certain Timings that I have to try and recalculate. this
has occurred since the change in the Hour last weekend.

It Can cause me problems in certain calculations.. so please be
patient..Sometimes it may take a few days to get fully back on track.

I THINK I was out 2 hrs on that Cycle I had on Nov 4th for 9.08 am
due to this..

So far As I write ( 4 am UK ) the Dow futures had been down about 50 pts to 10350 after fridays top of about 10412.

So far my Opening cycles worked as I thought...need to see if it maintains down into the cash mkt and the rest of the day..



Ive only posted times that I know are not effected by the hour change.


For Nov 8th
Times below are UK for EST minus 5 hrs.

http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/ganncycles2004

5.26
7.38

14.30*****
14.53/58****

15.01
15.12/18
15.25

16.17
16.54

17.02
17.30
17.39??

18.12

19.09***
19.54***

20.09*****
20.17
20.54/21.00
 
Dow For Nov 10th 04 posted at 11.28 am uk time.

from

http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/ganncycles2004

The Dow did react with a top yesterday within the 1st hour as I
suspected, BUT it made new highs in doing so to hit around 10427.

It did however sell back off and It will be interesting to see if
Tuesdays top holds into the Fed meeting today at 19.15 hrs ( 14.15
hrs EST).

I seem to have quiet a few signals occurring 90 mins before the cash
market opens, so we may see some movement on the futures here.
For the early cash mkt, my besy guess would be, We may see the cash
mkt react as a pivot around 14.40 or 15.07 hrs and if its a swing
top we may see the mkt sell off . Then Id suspect if a low has been
made between 16.00 and 17.30 hrs. An hour before the Fed meeting we
may see it re rally towards 19.00 hrs. Here I suspect another swing
top could be made.

Alternatively if the mkt had broke yesterdays top and is making a
new top around 19.00 hrs then ill be watching any new price made
between 10440 and 10540 with 10500 a more likely target.

The scenerio I have described IS ONLY my own thoughts based upon
what I THINK the market could do as so far the markets done what I
want to see leading into the fed meeting so far within reason.

As we all Know the market has a mind of its own and could do anything.

I THINK Ive sorted out my timing problem and I want to see How the
times react for today. I do have a LOT of decent signals ALL coming
in the hour of the Fed meeting SO I suspect they probably will be
reasonably OK.

Ill be very curious to see if OR How the 3 stronger signals I have
indicated as ******* react between 19.00 and 19.30 hrs.. I think IF
the 19.00 hr one does form a swing to we will see the market sell off.

I will then be watching that top carefully IF I decide to place a
close stop loss.

The last half hour also looks like it will be volitile.

Times are UK for EST minus 5 hrs.

*** indicates what I suspect will be the better signals.

******** indicates suspected stronger signals

10.41
12.17
12.41***

13.00****
13.10*
13.31
13.40

14.12*****

14.38/42***
14.57

15.07/11***
15.21
15.36***
15.42*****

16.08/12***?
16.18
16.30***

17.12/17**
17.37
17.49**
17.57

18.07
18.13****
18.22
18.29/34
18.44
18.57***

19.03**********suggests a top
19.07/11
19.16***********
19.18/20**
19.30***********
19.35
19.44

20.19*
20.26********
20.37****
20.48****
20.59*****top
 
Dow 5 year trendlines

Ive posted a chart in my files section that shows the Dow Jones over the last 5 years from its all time high in Jan 2000.


other charts to be posted on
http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/ganncycles2004

AAA Dow 5 yr trend lines...Nov 11th 04 bmp.gif
Dow 5 year trendlines Nov 11th 04

Please Note if anyones not familiar.
I Hope that you can view them OK.. The yahoo or other group files
section when initially opened DONT seem to open charts to full size
straight away .. I have found that I have to wait for an icon to
appear and click it to open the chart to full size. It appears just
below on the lower right hand side of the chart. Sometimes it seems
to take a few seconds before it appears, at least it does on my own
PC.

Note the two trendlines from this date.

Theres a lower one that hit the May 2001 top of 11366 and also went
on to hit slightly below this years February top of 10750 ish.

Then there is a higher trendline that just hits the very top of Feb
2004 top.

Presently the Lower of those two trendlines does seem to be very
close to hitting the market right now and suggests it will hit at
around 10500 to 10540.

The higher trendline does seem to be hitting about 10600.

Ive also had a look to see if I can find any other trendlines of
interest that MAY be hitting around these levels.

I would say at a closer look it appears there may be several that
come from other main highs or lows over the last 5 years that do seem
to have hit other valid points and appear to also be hitting around
10500 to 10600.

One of the charts shows more detail from 2002 and the other two show
a close up of where the lines have hit this last year and where they
seem to meet at around this time period of November .

I still have the week of November 15th to 19th as having several
cycles clustering of high interest.

November 17th in particular has several cycle hits.

So IF the market does hit and stay at around these levels I THINK
there MAY be quiet a good possibility we could see a change in trend.

Ive another very good looking date in December next month which id
like to think may be a low. Although If the mkt hasnt turned by Nov
20th then I suspect it may be the next main date of interest this
year and May be a top.

Its NOT at all easy to be certain that the dow / spx will turn this
month as no doubt the recent chart formations since the recent rally
have looked bullish especially seeing the SPX make new highs.

Although the SPX has broke the earlier yearly highs. The 1174 to
1176 top today was an important past resistance level.
 

Attachments

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Copied this from another board;
"I decided to take a glance at the 30 Dow stox and 100 Nas stox......this is using only the last three months as a reference. There ain't any bad news! Most of it is very good news for the bulls.....the bears ain't gonna like it tho.
The Dow 30 stox results: 24 Bullish, 4 bearish and 2 neutral.
The Nas 100 stox results: 78 bullish, 6 bearish and 16 neutral.
I also went down the list of indexes for the "real time market diary" and virtually all of them had bullish formations......100% bullish! Do you know what this means? Hang on to your seatbelts. We are in the mark-up phase of the bull-market! From what I'm reading 80% of stox are gonna be moving upward.....only a few will be headed south. Pullbacks will be short-lived and most likely on light volume.
The third week in October I saw significant movement in many Dow and Nasdaq stox. The neutral stox could easily turn bullish with another run up. I haven't seen this type of a move in a long time......a very long time. The best is yet to come! I did this type of analysis over a month ago, but this time the results are quite different.....especially with this last up-move of the past few weeks. Incredible! Most ain't gonna believe it till the mkt has gone a lot higher. If we get any kind of pullback next week because of o/e on Friday, I would get on the train. The boyz simply couldn't keep stox down any longer and have decided to let 'em run. Options not withstanding, the cat it out of the bag! Intermediate players should be buying on pullbacks! The day-traders should have a ball too.....even tho next wk will be kinda tricky due to o/e on Fri - am not sure if it's a triple-witching or not? The MM's will do the best they can to keep the mkt down the last few days of next wk.....after that it should be all systems go again. My internal statistical data is also very bullish. The bears have literally gone into hibernation.....and maybe won't come out till May or June......who was that who said something to the effect Nov thru April are good months and May thru Oct ain't so good.....well, we're in the Nov period now. Intermediate and long term players should be having a ball lately. S.T. players should definitely be in the black big time lately.....playing the long side, of course. Bears have most likely gone into their holes. Yeah, we're getting o.b., but so what. We can get even more o.b., before they come down a lil. Good luck with your longs! Save your Confederate money......the south is gonna RISE AGAIN!"
 
Thks for that

I think its going to be quiet tricky next week

Ive numerous good cycles mainly from several lows since 1929 all coming in between 15th to 18th and its really tough to say which will be the most reactive and in which time frame.

I do think we are in for a good move over the next month.

My best guess is if we break 10600 we go up, ... if by end of week 10600s held we go down.

I can only attempt to look to trade certain cycles that I have in mind and try and go with the flow.

Nov 16th to 17th seem to have the most cycle hits so if Monday declines, and I get a low at what I thinks an important time point I will consider long positions.

I agree a run away rally is quiet possible. But the severe clustering of cycles could also easily turn the mkt.
 
Dow times for Nov 15th 04


Times I suspect will have most reaction .. 15.41... 16.36....17.36 .. 19.11 hrs *********

19.11 hrs MAY see start of a strong move..



Times are UK for Est minus 5 hrs



13.42
13.55

14.30/35
15.41******
14.53

15.00/07
15.37/42****
15.55

16.03
16.25
16.36***

17.12
17.26
17.37
17.49?

18.00
18.10
18.29
18.47
18.59***

19.11**************
19.17/20****
19.34/37
19.43

20.00?
20.35
20.49*
 
I believe I read that the 18th should be some sort of a turn date. Fits well with the option expiration on Friday. My trading plan is to stay long until the 17/18th and then short some stocks until late Friday depending on the P/C-ratio of individual stocks. Guessing telecoms will rally some days before we get a rebound. Sideways/up next week. Waiting until Monday for new positions.
 
Last edited:
Dow Nov 18th signal alert !

http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/ganncycles2004


It appears that the early 8.24 hrs ( UK) time did work yet again as
another low yesterday and rallied the market to new highs again to
hit the top target that I have in mind at 10600.

Amazingly right on time so far date wise for it being a top target
hit for the 17th Nov. It would be good if this can turn the market.
But I still have Upto early Monday as my last main signal for the
next 11 days. After the 22nd The next best signal I can see is the
29th Nov.

The 19.00 hrs also saw the market sell off to time. Overall a very
good day for the two main times i had in mind.

What for today ?

I WANT TO GIVE A WARNING ! Today could be quiet volitile and if the
main signal comes in as a sell signal I expect the start of yet a
further sell off. IF it comes in as another LOW it could take the
market above 10600 and upset the Nov 17th as being the weeks top.

WATCH 13.38 hrs UK ( 8.34 hrs EST )

Other times 15.05 to 15.21 hrs.. 17.29 hrs ..18.30 19.34




Times are UK for EST minus 5 hrs


12.08
12.19***
13.30
13.38*******************
14.05
14.18

14.30/33***
14.43****

15.15/21********
15.30***
15.38**
15.47/51**

16.07/10***
16.19
16.36**
16.48?

17.09*****
17.19*
17.29*********


18.00
18.17****
18.30/34******
18.52

19.00
19.13
19.28******
19.42
19.54

20.13/17***
20.59
 
Dow Nov 19th

The signal I had for Thursday at 13.38 hrs initially seemed that it
may have come in 10 mins early and was the high on the Futures Untill
the last hour when it was very slightly broke. However around 10595
on the futures and 10585 on the cash mkt was the top of the day.

Overall It was a very poor day with a small range.
It reacted very poorly, so Im Not really very confident it will hold
for today unless the market sells off early on. If it does sell I
would expect a late rally into the close due to option expiry.

Really I think it would seem more logical that they will take the
market to new highs, but untill 10600 breaks who knows ! If 10600
breaks I suspect we will see a high close.

They May even try and take it up to 10700 to 10800 unless that
trendline from Jan 2000 top can hold it at 10600.

Ive a few signals of interest today

15.18 hrs .. 16.08 .. 17.11 .. 18.40 hrs and possibly 19.48 hrs.

I wonder if 19.48 hrs could see a big upmove if we do see the days
lows of some sort earlier on. At the moment I dont seem to have any
timings for the last hour.


Times are UK for EST minus 5 hrs




6.33
8.23
9.32
9.58?
11.59****

14.07
14.37**
14.49/54***

15.18**********
15.36*****
15.46

16.06/09*******
16.28
16.42/48?

17.02/06/11****
17.20/26
17.39
17.48/54

18.04***
18.16*****
18.28***
18.36/40**********
18.53

19.06
19.14
19.27***
19.37
19.44/48***?????
 
Dow Nov 26th



http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/ganncycles2004

The two main signals that I had on the 24th Nov BOTH came in as LOWs
and the Market rallied from 10482 to 10523. I ssee also the Futures
traded on Wednesday night Thursday morning and the Dec Futures hit
10560. On last nights market it fell back to 10500.

What for today ! After thanks giving Today is a short day. BUT I do
have some good signals early on before the open of the cash mkt

Ive 10.39 hrs... 13.30 and 13.40/44 hrs ( THIS may be start of a good
move )

I suspect it may be a its a LOW and IF it rallies , it could
attempt 10600.

If its a top, I will look to sell on further weakness.

14.40 and 15.45 hrs also look likely stronger moves.

I havent checked what time the mkt closes. I THINK its 18.00 hrs UK

( 13.00 hrs EST )

I have Monday Nov 29th as another potential main turn date so IF the
mkt does rally, come Monday we MAY see a reversal for a week. I say a
week as my next main date will be Dec 5th to 7th.

Lastly Dec 19th to 22nd

IF this is a TOP of some sort, either a MAIN NEW TOP or a lower swing
top, I DO THINK it will see a severe down move.

IF its a LOW, then I think the rally will maintain for some months to
come.

FOR ME this next 3 to 4 weeks are likely to prove important for the
longer term market direction.

Its amazing whats going on. Oil markets are multi year highs, Gold at
16 yr highs, and the Dollar at multi year lows.

The stock market surely must be greatly effected from this
combination.


8.23

10.39***********

13.14
13.30/32******
13.40/44***************suggests a low

14.16???
14.24

14.30
14.40*********
14.57

15.10
15.23
15.45/48********

16.05
16.22
16.32
16.58

17.01
17.26

18.36**********
 
Peter,

Those lines in the charts posted above, are they top-top bottom-bottom type trendlines continued forward ?
 
Hi General,

The Trendlines come from various tops and bottoms..

The main obvious one is from the Jan 2000 top which did hit 10600 on Nov 17th as I hoped. This was my TOP target as I had a range of about 10540 to 10600.

The other TLS .. Many were from past lows since 2000 and IF I recall some were taken from even further back.

I just noted this was an area where all the lines I had in mind all seemed to come together. Ive used this technique before and it has worked in the past. Like any technique its not perfect.

It did tie however with my timing and price TA..

The lines could become valid into the Future as rupport or resistance if the market does go higher say in 2005 OR if we see a later attempted 2nd LOWER swing top..

The General said:
Peter,

Those lines in the charts posted above, are they top-top bottom-bottom type trendlines continued forward ?
 
Dow Nov 29th


The Dow did seem to rally up from the early signal that I had from
the open for Fridays short session.The minor rally only managed to
hit 10540 on the cash mkt folowed by a late sell off. So far however
it held ABOVE the Friday open. I wasnt too keen on the close as it
was mid range which makes it a bit tricky for what to Expect on
Sunday Nights open.

Again I have had some good cycles in this weekend SO I expect the
open of the Futures overnight session to have a set direction.

For Monday I have some further good looking cycles coming in..

I DO EXPECT the 29th to determine whats likely to happen for the rest
of the week..

IF 10600 is to be broke this week it should happen Monday.
OTHERWISE I expect the market to sell quiet hard.

However I do think there is a good probability 10600 will hold BUT I
will certainly be on alert if the market reacts up above 10560 from
any reactions from my main signals today.

One signal in at 13.30 hrs COULD see the start of a BIG move..
However if that fails to react Ive others in later which should
offer strong reations.


Other times to Watch : between 14.00 and 14.30 hrs..
16.08hrs.. 17.10 hrs.. 18.21 hrs.. 19.30 .. 19.54 hrs 20.30 hrs

Appologies to members who has sent private messages to me.. Ive been
busy lately ..I will try and reply this week.

Times are UK for EST minus 5 hrs


Market should react From the Open sunday night/ Monday morning
FUTURES session to determine direction at least until 13.30 hrs.

2.30

8.38

13.30********COULD BE VERY INTERESTING !!!!!!!!!!

13.38
13.46*****

14.01/07???
14.16*********
14.21/26********

14.32
14.48**
14.54
14.59

15.08/10**
15.19
15.33?/.39***

16.08******
16.30
16.36**

17.05/10****
17.15
17.37***
17.55

18.07??
18.21*********
18.42
18.54****

19.00??
19.18
19.28/30****
19.58*******

20.18
20.28/32*****
 
PLEASE NOTE !

NOV 29th Time changes


Sorry I had an error on some of my timings including some of the
expected ****** stronger ones..

still watch 13.30 hrs BUT please note ive made SOME changes from the
initial post that I made..

Other times to Watch : between
16.08hrs.. .. 17.16./ 26 ....... 19.58 hr.... 20.21 /54 hrs


Times are UK for EST minus 5 hrs


Market should react From the Open sunday night/ Monday morning
FUTURES session to determine direction at least until 13.30 hrs.

2.30

8.38

13.30********COULD BE VERY INTERESTING !!!!!!!!!!

13.38
13.46*****

14.01/07???


14.32
14.48**
14.54



15.19
15.33?/.39***

16.08******
16.30



17.16*********
17.26*********
17.37***
17.55

18.00
18.10***
18.39
18.54****

19.00??
19.18
19.30/36**
19.58*******

20.10
20.18
20.21*****
20.54*******
 
Hanging Man

Looks like a clear Hanging Man has formed on the Hourly Indu chart ater the opening today.
 
Dow 13th Dec



The Dow found a top around 10580 on Friday...

I will be concerned for bears if this level breaks on monday..

I believe this next week will be important..

Ive a main signal in next weekend so Dec 18th to 20th should see themkt make its mind up .. Mean while there are also a few good cycles in later this week.. see msg below..


the sunday night open futures / overnight mkt may well determine the direction for Monday..


other important times
15.05.....16.48......18.54........

For other IMPORTANT Times this week see http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/ganncycles2004




times UK for EST - 5 hrs



sunday night open*****

10.58
14.08

14.46

15.05******
15.36
15.50

16.09
16.15
16.39/48*****

17.19
17.30

18.16/20*****
18.30/33****
18.48/54********

19.02/04***
19.37

20.11
20.17/22***
20.37?
20.48/53***
 
Dow Jan 7th


Its a few days since I last posted, Ive had to await for Januarys
timings.

Looking at whats happend on the Dow since the 27th/28th Dec 2004,
Having looked at some longer term cycles, I do think that theres a
chance that the recent topping MAY prove to be a potential decent
top , at least for a few weeks. As you hopefully recall I was looking
for 10800 and the Dow hit 10867 for a double or triple top. A final
top was made on Jan 3rd..

TODAY HOWEVER I have about three BIG signals, THAT IF they prove to
be a LOW COULD or should see a DECENT rally that COULD retest 10800
to 10867 by next week..

If they come in as tops we should sell off quiet sharply.

The first time is at 12.36 hrs UK PRIOR to the cash mkt open.

If this fails watch 16.21..and 17.00 hrs UK...


from
http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/ganncycles2004/


Times are UK .. for EST minus 5 hrs.

12.36*************??????????????
13.30/33*******

15.05/07
15.26????????
15.42


16.08
16.21************************
16.32
16.54/58****

17.00***********************
17.19
17.28
17.50****

18.10/14
18.34/38*****
18.50***

19.07
19.13
19.32*****
19.48

20.17
 
Of the few major BBs on stock & commodity markets, numberless threads and zillions of posts, over the few years I've taken cursory looks, I don't believe I've spotted anyone on the trail of the Holy Grail or even with the faintest idea of how to daily scoop or ever scoop the market.

Here there appears to be the very faintest clue emerging.
PRICE and TIME.
TIME=hours and minutes on the clock.
:)
 
Hi Fudge stain

Id given up posting times on this thread as I didnt think anyone really bothered with time.

here was Todays times.

The Low came in close to my main estimated timing.

Also Mondays top came in close to one of my main time point.s


http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/ganncycles2004
********************


The Dow started the day from the sunday night / early Monday open in
the direction for yesterdays early initial rally to 10640 and then
the mkt declined quite severely from 15.00 hrs UK to the break
below the Friday 10580 low to hit 10523.

As good as that early rally was the direction seems it may have
changed.

The market is still range bound between 10720 and 10506 with a
smaller 10640 - 10523 range that if broken may see which direction
we will go for this week.

Im running out of decent looking signals after today until the 26th.

One of the good last ones prior to the 26th comes in today so i
await to see if the mkt makes a break out today one way or the other.

Watch : 14.30 to 14.46 ....... 15.20/30...
17.32************ 19.30*********** 20.44 ****


times are UK for EST minus 5 hrs

9.00
10.46

13.08
13.33

14.14
14.30**
14.46***

15.04/08
15.20****
15.30***

16.04
16.38
16.42

17.01
17.38***
17.42*************
17.48

18.04
18.12*
18.39
18.44/46

19.21
19.30*************
19.36
19.52/55***

20.15/18**
20.26
20.44*********
20.55***




fudgestain said:
Of the few major BBs on stock & commodity markets, numberless threads and zillions of posts, over the few years I've taken cursory looks, I don't believe I've spotted anyone on the trail of the Holy Grail or even with the faintest idea of how to daily scoop or ever scoop the market.

Here there appears to be the very faintest clue emerging.
PRICE and TIME.
TIME=hours and minutes on the clock.
:)
 
Peter

That was kind of you to reply.

The institutional model uses times within market hours eg the DOW cash index. I start each day with predicted sample times for the major legs within the day. Those times are in New York time (EST).
 
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