dbfx - Market maker or ECN?

Ackermann is proudly saying in TV : we got big wins in Investment ....bla bla bla ....

From horrible fills and conection errors and margincalls ......:eek:

I know Deutsche Bank , because I got an account 10 years ago ...

They make only misstakes in transactions and were lazy and arrogant ......

So I close the account after paying 400 € for their misstakes ....

As I see DBFX , I know that everything is the same , they learnt nothing and are too

stupid to manage accounts ....

All broker who make big noise are bucketshops , their TV Promotion is very agressive.

Everywere I meet people on the street who were scamed by CMC , GCI , Comdirect ......

an endless list of firms , growing because the government get taxes too and the NFA

sleeps well ....:whistling

For my mind I would say : better forbid all CFD and SB in whole world , not only in USA .

Because like Warren Buffet says : the derivates industry is like cancer growing ......

have a nice day

FWIW, I have downloaded all the ticks of both FXCM and dbFX (they have the same API).

Some info for EUR/USD:
FXCM: starting 2007_03_27, 32,392,044 ticks till 2010_01_10
dbFX: starting 2007_08_14, 28,479,968 ticks till 2010_01_10

In general, FXCM has more ticks than dbFX for a specific pair. For some pairs, like EUR/SEK dbFX has 25% more ticks. I know the periods above are not matched.
 
The facts are : DBFX is a ECN like plattform , but the functions are not working well,
because they don`t want you to win ....
The other thing was , i DON`T GET MORE POINTS WITH A ECN PLATTFORM ...
The big problem are the fills , they depending on ...
Marketvolume at CME , Traders who trade at same time , conection Server status and
many many more things you never will know , because every day is not the same ....
So the only chance you got is to messure the time , how long 1 order need to fill ...
from this information I get the character of my Broker , that is the most interesting
thing I want to know , why ? I give up after 300 firms testing to say why ....:cry:
The best is , to make some trades with small money and test it at differend times ,
so I find out that when the market is well , the bucketshops give also well than...:LOL:
To make higher profits on faster fills is not possible , only the scalping is better ...
My trades are 10 Minutes to 1 hour and that is the optimum in points per time ....
So I don`t need ECN or Futuresbroker to get filled well .
My performance is 10 to 50 points per trade , that is enought to give 2 points for
stupidness of Ordermanaging , that is normaly at the chaos of the CME .
 
FWIW, I have downloaded all the ticks of both FXCM and dbFX (they have the same API).

Some info for EUR/USD:
FXCM: starting 2007_03_27, 32,392,044 ticks till 2010_01_10
dbFX: starting 2007_08_14, 28,479,968 ticks till 2010_01_10

In general, FXCM has more ticks than dbFX for a specific pair. For some pairs, like EUR/SEK dbFX has 25% more ticks. I know the periods above are not matched.


But the dates don't match??? I don't get it - did I miss something? You ran ticks for 2007, but one for the 8th month and one for the 3rd month.

Typo, or did I miss something?
 
Even if the data were to be collected for exactly the same period (which it doesn't look like is the case here), it doesn't necessarily follow that the number of ticks should always be the same. You can white label someone's infrastructure and still plug in rates from your own pricing engine. How often they update is based on a larger number of variables than you'd think. Which, incidentally is why this whole concept of 'tick volume' as a proxy for actual traded volume in otc fx is complete horse-plop...
 
...How often they update is based on a larger number of variables than you'd think. Which, incidentally is why this whole concept of 'tick volume' as a proxy for actual traded volume in otc fx is complete horse-plop...

Which is precisely why I favor pushing the entire party into a true ECN framework, or at least something with an open face on the depth, breadth and liquidity. This can be done while still retaining the Anonymous protocols, that quite frankly, the more I trade the markets, the more I learn to appreciate.
 
Well if by 'true ecn' you mean genuine total consolidation, I wouldn't hold your breath. The market is heading top speed in the other direction at the moment. Plus, the wholesale and interbank market is still, despite myriad advances in dealing technology, still far more of a relationship business than you would expect. So while anonymous pricing is all well and good, it tends to be somewhat, shall we say, 'defensive' for lack of a better term. And that doesn't just mean a wider spread. There can also be tweaks to TTL, skew / non skew, last look pricing etc, so called 'aggressive defensive' auto-hedgers etc etc. The deeper the relationship with your pricing source(s), the less of this stuff you usually have to contend with. But of course you have to understand it all first. It's a vanilla product with an AWFUL LOT of subtleties....

Or people can cling to some vague, less than perfectly informed opinion that their trading would be so much better if they 'just had ecn access, cos then I can see the 'real' market' and spend all their spare pennies getting themselves set up with an account somewhere that lets them access currenex, only to end up getting dumped in the 'shark tank'. Of course, they don't actually know it's called the shark tank.....

Like I said - lots to learn and negotiate....
 
Heading at top speed in the opposite direction is no joke. To wit, the atomic explosion of CFDs now propagating through the hydrodynamic frontal wave. Warren Buffett calls the growth of derivatives, "cancers." One of the things pushing the arrival of a global form of ECN out over the horizon, appears to be the bottom line growth, quite frankly. According to the BIS Triennial Survey, FX turn-over was projected to continue growth at nearly 60% from 2007 numbers, which were in the $3+ Trillion range. With that kind of growth, it will be difficult to shift focus to a more transparent type of system, I suspect.

But, after the ramp-up (attributed a great deal to the growth within the Retail dimension but also among Institutions using FX for more than just a "hedge"), I suspect that attitudes will at the very least begin to shift towards more transparency and that will mean a broader focus on Electronic Central Clearing - of "some" kind. Probably not what I want to see in its entirety, but at least getting closer to an exchange type off-set/settlement framework, but with obvious customizations to match a truly global financial market environment.

Of course, this might have the affect of shaking out some of that "Good Ole Boy Network" that you correctly allude to and bring about better pricing as a result to the "masses." But, even that might still be more reason for such changes to be resisted. This is a three (3) market system after all. One for the Retailers, one for the Wholesalers and one for the Vendors. That framework by definition guarantees the security of the "Good Ole Boy Network" - a network that you favor, once you get inside, no doubt. Also, no doubt, that the CFR and "others" will have/do have a say in the matter ultimately (of course, they have a say in just about everything anyway).

I'm sure you will find this a fascinating read, no doubt:



It has been a real good back-door hedging tool (not just currency conversion) for the "Network" over the years. Somebody decided to open it up and making it public facing (read: Retail Trading) for a good reason. That kind of things does not merely happen without motive - not in this world. So, when I put two & two together I come up with one word: Currency Volatility. Now, I have to admit, I like currency volatility given the way I trade, but to many, the word strike fear and terror at the core - especially when the instrument is a Bill. Forex trading is exploding, but as you say, this thing is far more than meets the eye underneath the covers.

They let the cat out of the bag almost two decades ago and now the CFTC wants to end it at 10:1 - but - only in the U.S. Hmmmm. I don't buy it. What's the CFTC doing. Pushing U.S. Futures - or pushing Greenback into the U.K. If the goal was to fly capital into the U.K. - well - in my case it worked! I'm already making arrangements to visit a European "Intermediary" should the deal go down here in the States. Still, I think something else might be under foot, having nothing to do with Retail accounts here in the U.S., as the lame excuse given by the CFTC for 10:1 does not add up for me.

Would the CFTC being doing this, had there not been a global recession? An interesting question to ponder. According to the article, U.S. banks could not get financial because of global imbalances in non-U.S. banks. Well, wait a minute, stop the presses. So, if U.K. banks tap into more reserves, U.S. banks get more liquidity? Interesting. We must be in worse shape than I thought, if you believe the CFR.

The article is a good read.
 
I tested now some ECN called plattforms Ducascopy , FastbrokersFX , MBtrading ....
The order comes faster and the spread is lower , but in the end I only scalp and that
is not well , because we must trade through and hold positions for 0.5 to 4 hours .
The problem at scalping is , you want to get more and trade with more lots .....
You fly high until the margincall comes on a spike , because you forget what time
the spikes be ....the accountblowing is programmated ....:confused:
Better to learn trading then scalp , that is why I don`t use Futures or ECN brokers.
Longer moves and longer timeframes give you more protection on losing controll in
your Moneymanagment .
In the end I got more points with long trades so I will not agree with the Futures Brokers.

have a nice day
 
If I were an individual trader with $100k to $200k minimum and I wanted to engage the real Interbank market and I saw an Ad that read: Real ECN Forex Trading for High Net-Worth Individuals offering: TruePRICE, TrueDOM, TrueLIQUID, ZeroDEAL and TrueTRADE - with explanations of each - and - I also learned that opening an account was no more difficult than opening an IRA or 401k - and - that I had access to Trading Platforms such as: Currenex, ProTrader, Viking as well as other White Label solutions from Barclays, UBS, etc.; I might at the very least consider doing my homework on such an offer.


Have you tried Capital Forex?
http://www.londoncapitalgroup.co.uk/lcgfx_professional.html
and more info here:
http://www.capitalforexpro.com/about.php
 
I tested now some ECN called plattforms Ducascopy , FastbrokersFX , MBtrading ....
The order comes faster and the spread is lower , but in the end I only scalp and that
is not well , because we must trade through and hold positions for 0.5 to 4 hours .
The problem at scalping is , you want to get more and trade with more lots .....
You fly high until the margincall comes on a spike , because you forget what time
the spikes be ....the accountblowing is programmated ....:confused:
Better to learn trading then scalp , that is why I don`t use Futures or ECN brokers.
Longer moves and longer timeframes give you more protection on losing controll in
your Moneymanagment .
In the end I got more points with long trades so I will not agree with the Futures Brokers.

The commissions at this ECN Brokers so high , that you got 2-3 points spread more
from this per trade , so you must open the account with 100000 - 1 m , to get
spreads like the bucketshops , now I know why the systemsellers on this site
make promotion for ECN .....(n)
The other thing is , IB`s not trade , they wait until traders get trouble ......
To sell traders is more profitable then to trade .....:idea:
I like my bucketshop :love: very low margin and no costs at all , spread is at night well .....and I did nice carrytrades with my account ....:cheesy:

have a nice day
 
I tested now some ECN called plattforms Ducascopy
Longer moves and longer timeframes give you more protection on losing controll in your Moneymanagment.

Last week, I was UP on Dukascopy. So, I downloaded their platform and ran a test trade and then went to sleep. When I woke up the next morning, another order had been opened and was running side-by-side with my previous order from the night before. :eek:

Having trading platforms just open up new tickets without my input (whatsoever) is not my cup of tea. I deleted the platform and cleaned out the registry, needless to say, of Dukascopy.


In the end I got more points with long trades....

Correct. One of the 'truths' about trading is that unless you take the time necessary to learn how to become extremely proficient at hyper-short-term scalping, you can forget about having any long-term success. The 'other truth' about trading is that Day Traders (positions held intra-day purely) requires a tremendous amount of accuracy to target in order to be consistently profitable AND to rapidly grow capital (one of my requirements for being in this business). Without extreme target accuracy, the so-called Day Trader, is a myth in the currency markets, when the discussion turns to long-term success (years, not months).

The best environment for long-term success as a Private Currency Trader or Money Manager, is to develop your system to function within the Intermediate time-frame. Swings that last from 48 hours up to 1 week. This time-frame affords one the most flexibility with respect to decision making and money management, while affording the highest probability for long-term revenue growth at a fast rate of speed. Fast rate of speed AND swing trading, sounds like an oxymoron, but when you do the long range math, you will find that even with imperfect target accuracy, you can grow your capital much faster than with the above two methods describe above (given that you are not an Expert Scalper or Day Trader).

TradeSMART, by Managing your Positions. :smart:
 


No, I have not. They slipped under my radar, but I am thankful for the lead. From what I can tell: Second Tier Prime Broker, Multi-Bank Platforms, Caters to Mid Size Accounts and offers STP. Not much info commissions at all, but a phone call can take care of that - they have to make money some way.

Overall, looks like a "second look" is warranted. Focus seems to be Spread Betting and there is some relationship with SaxoBank for that - not sure how how they deploy that one, but it looks as if SaxoBank might be the White Label recipient (user) in that deal - again, unlcear. They do talk-the-talk on "knowing what the trader needs" stuff, so it will be interesting to learn whether they walk-the-walk, too.

I don't get the sense that they are technology capable (savvy), however - so, I'll have to look into that as well. I'm big on Technology and I like to know that my Intermediary understands its significance to a successful enterprise/venture/plan. Not much written about them, which could be a good thing, actually. They do seem to have at least some strategic relationship skills, however. I get the feel that this is a firm in transition and trying to get some where at present. Not really, "there yet." Maybe focusing on becoming a full fledged Tier One Prime Broker, would be the ticket for them, not sure - just thinking out-loud.

I'll be starting a serious Prime Broker search this year something and will make LCG a part of my homework assignment and part of my idea file. Again, thanks for the heads-up. Good (quality) leads in this business are rare. :idea:

TradeSMART, by Managing your Positions. :smart:
 
Correct. One of the 'truths' about trading is that unless you take the time necessary to learn how to become extremely proficient at hyper-short-term scalping, you can forget about having any long-term success. The 'other truth' about trading is that Day Traders (positions held intra-day purely) requires a tremendous amount of accuracy to target in order to be consistently profitable AND to rapidly grow capital (one of my requirements for being in this business). Without extreme target accuracy, the so-called Day Trader, is a myth in the currency markets, when the discussion turns to long-term success (years, not months).

The best environment for long-term success as a Private Currency Trader or Money Manager, is to develop your system to function within the Intermediate time-frame. Swings that last from 48 hours up to 1 week. This time-frame affords one the most flexibility with respect to decision making and money management, while affording the highest probability for long-term revenue growth at a fast rate of speed. Fast rate of speed AND swing trading, sounds like an oxymoron, but when you do the long range math, you will find that even with imperfect target accuracy, you can grow your capital much faster than with the above two methods describe above (given that you are not an Expert Scalper or Day Trader).

TradeSMART, by Managing your Positions. :smart:[/QUOTE]

I try to trade this timeframes , but after 5 minutes I get nervous and sell .....
Now my server follow with intelligent trailingstop and I don`t look at him .....:cool:
Times changed : in the begining they play with me , now I let them play with my server... :whistling
At 0.94 I had fund my GBP account , at 0.85 I make a change to EUR account .... simple procedure ....
nice carrytrade : after 10 times changing I got 160% win , 20 times = 572% win ....and so on ....
 
Last edited:
Today the GBP $ is very Fakey , but I stole him 1200 $ .....:cheesy:
I am more bandit than anyone ......



have a nice day



I love you all:love:
 
I'll be starting a serious Prime Broker search this year something and will make LCG a part of my homework assignment and part of my idea file. Again, thanks for the heads-up. Good (quality) leads in this business are rare. :idea:

TradeSMART, by Managing your Positions. :smart:

You got me a bit confused now TN7 - your earlier posts seem to refer to serious size, a need for good levels of scalability in the future etc, but yet you appear to be scratching around talking about the types of shop that look a bit low end for all of this. Then you start talking about starting a serious search for a good prime broker later on in the year.

I'm sure you know in your head what it is that would make you happy, I'm just not sure I do. So I thought I'd ask a couple of simple questions;

1) What size are you currently trading?
2) How are you executing (physically i.e. platform etc and also what is your trading and execution style)?
3) What are you looking to scale up to in the medium term size wise (say 6m out)
4) What makes you think you're going to need this scalability?

All genuine questions. No need to reveal whatever methodology / system you're using in depth, or any other proprietary info come to that.

Obviously you don't have to answer any of these Qs if you don't want. Just thought I'd ask.

GJ
 
Today the GBP $ is very Fakey , but I stole him 1200 $ .....:cheesy:
I am more bandit than anyone ......



have a nice day



I love you all:love:


GBP was locked and loaded from last week (see my last week's trade profile in the other thread). GBP typically has a magnitude that is 1.4 times that of EUR against the USD, but it you measure the Long sided move thus far, you can see that EURUSD is about 1.10 times the magnitude of GBP. So, either GBP breaks the 'rule' this week, or this is a good sign that the House of Europe, has got much farther to go to the upside this week. Out of the 17 positions I had open this week, GBPUSD was one of those that I had to reverse after a 45 pip loss. I'm now 46 positive to the upside and holding this 1 of 17.

Try multiple pairs. It takes more work to get them configured properly, but once you get them running in the right direction, the risk drops to zilch and the profits are a lot easier to trim off at will.

TradeSMART, by Managing your Positions. :smart:
 
You got me a bit confused now TN7 - your earlier posts seem to refer to serious size, a need for good levels of scalability in the future etc, but yet you appear to be scratching around talking about the types of shop that look a bit low end for all of this.

That's why I call it homework. I won't know who is low-end until they reveal themselves to me as being low-end (or, until I uncover them as such). All I did was quickly scan the site - I have several leads for Prime Broker.

Then you start talking about starting a serious search for a good prime broker later on in the year.

If the truth be told (and I stated this in another thread on this forum), I really don't need to leave the so-called "Retail" world of FX. The reason is simple: Leverage. FX Leverage has allowed me to grow my capital geometrically. Can't produce the same growth curve on what Deutsche Bank, Cita, UBS, etc., provide their so-called "Institutional" customers.

I think I made two posts stating that I'm approaching the $17MM level. Deutsche Bank requires $25MM just to get "credit approved" - whatever the heck that means (Sarcasm intended). At $25MM, I am the one who should be running 'credit checks' on the BANKS! Not them on me! In my phone conversations with Deutsche Bank about their AutobahnFX platform and in my phone conversations with UBS about their "new and improved" trading platform, it was almost as if they were telling me that they would prefer that I go through a Prime Broker, rather than the legal minutia that would be required to establish a relationship with them. That tells me that they don't like dealing with "new money." They would prefer working with household names and not private individuals of high net worth.

But, it also makes sense, too. Through a PB, I get access to multiple, deep liquidity pools and a choice of trading platforms that better suit my needs. But, most importantly (at least to my mind), I can retain a higher grade of leverage, while keeping my margin requirements well below that which most of the Banks I know would necessitate. Relatively higher leverage coupled with relatively lower margin requirements equals an opportunity for geometric growth of capital. I can trade on AutobahnFX at what amounts to approximately 10:1, which is precisely what will slam the door on my current growth rate.

When I began looking into Institutional account requirements, I began to realize that I'd have better opportunity to sustain my current growth levels (or, close enough) by going Prime Broker instead of straight Bank. But, even that remains to be seen, as I won't have made enough PM contacts until later this year to know for sure. Once I have the data from both side-by-side to study, then I can make a decision.

Most Retail Traders don't have this headache - and yes, it is definitely a headache. I like my growth rates and I don't want to be forced to give them up, just so I can proudly say, "I trade direct with a Global Bank." Big deal, if my growth gets stunted. And, yes, I know the ultimate market limitations - I can't grow this way forever, else I become the market - not going to happen.

I would like to push the edge of the envelope on getting $1 - $2 BLN under private management across a 52 trade schedule each year (52 trade profiles launched per year). But, that is of course, Phase 3 of my three (3) stage plan. Right now, I'm still in Phase 1, which is to get to $225 MM as quickly as possible. Then, I can slow things down a bit and give-up leverage for more stabilized and slower growth rates, because the cost basis per trade profile will be large enough to sustain a good overall rate of growth that I'm comfortable with on an annual basis.

1) What size are you currently trading?

Typically between: $100k - $5.2 MM (cost basis/equity in position) per week. However, this figure depends heavily on the strength of the trade signal. The system determines the cost basis in the trade and which pairs will participate in the weekly profile.


2) How are you executing (physically i.e. platform etc and also what is your trading and execution style)?

Signal generation is 100% automated. Trade execution is 100% manual. I fly the aircraft. The system engineers the Flight Plan and sometimes acts as the auto-pilot once the cruise profile begins at altitude. But, typically, I hand fly the aircraft from departure to landing, including all ground operations.

Ultimately, I make the decision on all flight cancellations, aborted take-offs, emergency procedures after take-off, in-flight emergencies (including emergency descent profiles for: fire, engine out or rapid decompression) and all aborted landings including holding-pattern procedures.


3) What are you looking to scale up to in the medium term size wise (say 6m out)

That's about where I am right now (cost basis/equity in position) at the top-end, but as I said, the system can downgrade anything at anytime. My current notional range is about the $550MM level (max) but, I have not seen a ton of those over the past 4+ weeks, given the systematic downgrading that I've seen lately. There's a lot of downgrading going on right now. However, all that says is that there is something about the market that the system does not like. She's being very protective right now and I like that about her.

The JPY is causing most of the problem, I suspect - but that's another thread.


4) What makes you think you're going to need this scalability?

I figure that if I can reach the $1-$5 BLN (notional) range, then I could generate between $7MM to $35MM per round trip/per week with the same model and just a few tweaks to make it work.

Taking the average of that range puts the weekly run at about $21MM or $84MM per month. At that clip, 11.9 months would put $1 BLN net/net in hand and about one year later, $2 BLN.

I can take care of all my other non-trading related projects (non-profit) with a stable $1-$2 BLN (equity) annually through 52 small trades per year. The rest would be simple math at that point. Once you have capital in this business, it is far easier to make more of it. Growing it, is the hard part.

I have no problem answering these questions as they only describe some of my goals and only small portion of what I'm actually doing to date.

Did you read the article?

TradeSMART, by Managing your Positions. :smart:
 
The other problem is , I got no fun , when I trade so I let the server work .....:)
Servers are very nice running 24 hours and cheap 15 € per month ....
I can look at nice joung girls spending the money from the wins ....:clap:

Trading is boring XXXXXXXXX is better :LOL:
 
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