Dax.

[peterpr]

If you understand what it is that an indicator is indicating, why are you not able to do this inside your head, in abstraction, instead of covering your chart with all these distracting lines, which in fact are lagging, not leading ? The "leading" part comes from "understanding", and not "harnessing".

For the same reason that I would use a calculator to find the 12th root of a 13 digit number or any other complex calculation. As I have said before on other threads, I have no doubt that there are autistic type minds out there capable of doing such calculations (visualisations) faster than I can with a calculator, but mine isn't one of them. To call them 'lagging' is to confuse cause with effect. Viewed for what they are, they are no more lagging than a price/volume bar. It is the commonly used 'signals' derived from them that are lagging. Indicators are tools pure and simple; they are alternative visual representations of price/volume; there are those who even execute trades off them without even having a price/volume chart on display - much like there are those who execute trades off particular price/volume bar patterns.

Personally I only use the odd one as secondary supporting evidence for a potential trade, but to simply rubbish them is simplistic.

 

[SOCRATES]

You are not correct.

To have to cling to indicators is simplistic.

To dump them and not use them at all is sophisticated.

That is why true darksiders, who among other ideas do not use indicators of any sort, are so thin on the ground.

In a previous thread I discussed how it is that all these nonsenses about indicators are promoted, and how it is that purveyors of software pander to peoples' wants when in fact they ought to act within a moral framework and act honourably and respond correctly to their needs instead.

 

[barjon]

Socrates,

I'm not a great fan of indicators, but each to his own. Indicators "simplistic". No indicators "sophisticated" . So what? You make it sound as if the darksiders are the chosen ones and all others are inferior beings.

Sophistication or otherwise, what counts at the end of the day is success - continued succes - in terms of the bottom line profit (although I know that's not where you get your buzz) and if people are achieving that then the means by which they do it - indicators or not - are right for them.

Of course, you may argue that any reliance on indicators can never bring more than transitory success and that continued success relies ultimately on developing those darksider skills you hold so dear, but just writing off non-darksiders is hardly a valid argument.

Like many things in life I guess achieving your aims without props is the more satisfying but given the choice of succeeding with props or failing without I think I know what I'd do.

good trading

jon

 

[peterpr]

You are not correct.

And neither are you. There is no 'correct / 'incorrect' there is just a whole set of complex judgements made on the evidence whilst in proper control of ones emotions and working in a disciplined manner that result in either consistent profit or loss. I regard the use of certain indicators to be 'part of the evidence' in certain circumstances.

I make a respectable living out of trading so I don't need you or anyone else to tell me that my approach is correct or otherwise.

To have to cling to indicators is simplistic.

I have never suggested 'clinging' to indicators. I have simply pointed out their true nature. I agree it is all too easy for a novice to impute qualities which they do not posses, but when I want to hammer in a nail I use a hammer and when I want secure a scew I use a screwdiver - the heel of my shoe and a kitchen knife are not suitable stand-ins. It is the use to which tools are put that is or is not simplistic.

To dump them and not use them at all is sophisticated.

I suggest you research the etymology of the word 'sophisticated' . I do not seek sophistication in my own trading I seek simplicity.

In a previous thread I discussed how it is that all these nonsenses about indicators are promoted, and how it is that purveyors of software pander to peoples' wants when in fact they ought to act within a moral framework and act honourably and respond correctly to their needs instead.

Software designers/purveyors are no different from any other business. They seek to meet demand. True, they will seek to create demand too (its called marketing - just like the stock maket cheerleaders in fact) with the less scrupulous employing stratagems that attract the credulous and gullible. So what? Aspiring traders who can't find their way through that particular minefield cannot expect to remain traders for long IMHO - and having someone to hold their hand isn't the answer - again IMHO.

 

[SOCRATES]

Yes, I can see where you are coming from, and it is best if I leave you exactly where you are.
I have neither the time, patience or energy to go over all this stuff all over again, please.

 

[kriesau]

Joules - are you still short on the Dax at 4447 ?

I assume that the Dax is trading tomorrow since it's not a holiday in Germany or France !

 

[fredm]

I assume that the Dax is trading tomorrow since it's not a holiday in Germany or France !

Yes - next time Dax closes is Christmas. But often low volume / a bit slow when US shut.

http://www.eurexchange.com/market_trading/tradingcalendar/2005_1.html