tar
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I am sure , check the forexfactory page at the left of the screen shot , u will c other brokers prices including IGmarkets showing 1.60346/366 like in the separated ticket ...
Best Thread CMC Markets owner answers your questions
- Thread starter PC at CMC Markets
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PC at CMC Markets
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hi cottoner
#firstly we have to get next gen launched in Australia and New Zealand that will happen over next couple of months. then we launch next gen on iphone and ipad more or less at same time.then we will have android. To be honest we are looking at six months from now. sorry it cannot be sooner but we are changing the whole technology base here and rolling it out around the world so will take time.
thanks for posting.
regards Peter
#firstly we have to get next gen launched in Australia and New Zealand that will happen over next couple of months. then we launch next gen on iphone and ipad more or less at same time.then we will have android. To be honest we are looking at six months from now. sorry it cannot be sooner but we are changing the whole technology base here and rolling it out around the world so will take time.
thanks for posting.
regards Peter
PC at CMC Markets
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Hi team.
Just got invite to the Arsenal Barcelona game tomorrow. Not sure whether to laugh or cry. Last year it looked like Barcelona were the home team and last game I saw was when we were winning two nil and some other team from North London beat us 3-2. Hope I am not bad luck for the team. Still we are playing well and van the man is on fire.. you never know.
pc
Just got invite to the Arsenal Barcelona game tomorrow. Not sure whether to laugh or cry. Last year it looked like Barcelona were the home team and last game I saw was when we were winning two nil and some other team from North London beat us 3-2. Hope I am not bad luck for the team. Still we are playing well and van the man is on fire.. you never know.
pc
Here is an exchange I have had with Peter following my post #929 on page 117. I thought it would be useful for an understanding of CMC pricing and considerations for setting stops. I have found CMC staff very accessible and courteous. Just need to see whether I can adapt my DMA stop setting strategy to work with SB pricing.
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Hi Uchiki
I have no problems with you posting my replies public. it is your choice.
It is very important to remember that bets are bets and have to be treated like a bet if you want all the tax benefits. If you start dma-ing bets then they start to take on a different structure and that might not be helpful.
If you want dma type execution then you have to look at cfds and pay the commission separately.
many thanks peter
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Hi Peter,
Prospreads do appear to give DMA prices (when I tracked silver on their demo platform against interactivebrokers, it was pretty much tick for tick), but add on their betting spread 'post-transaction'. eg for silver futures contracts, you buy when the underlying market ask price hits your bid eg at 30.01, but then an additional cost of 0.002 is added ie your buying cost is 30.012 rather than 30.01. I've just confirmed that the same happens with stops. ie a sell stop at 29.89 would be triggered if the underlying market touches 29.89 and filled at 29.888.
Their minimum lot size is the lot size on the underlying market eg a full silver futures contract and they don't cover stocks at all. I understand that the lot size flexibility you offer will likely incur higher charges, but I do like their approach. It means that entries and stops can be set based upon the broad market, rather than a subset (eg CMC or GFT) of the market for which no complete chart data is currently available.
This has been a useful discussion for me. I would like to put our exchange into the public forum tomorrow.
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Dear Uchiki
I am glad you seem happy with the sequence of events and Oliver was able to clarify the situation. I have a couple of points.
1. when we quote a price because it is spread bet we have to include in the price the commissions, levey etc. so it is just not possible for any spread bet first to give you dma price that trades on the exchanges because there are add ons. With dma price the add ons are added afterwards. Therefore you always get the pure price from the markets and it is easier to follow market prices etc. Betting is betting and although bet execution has these additional add ons into the price you have the cgt advantage to take into consideration.
2. You are right that prices take two prices per second. That is only a temporary thing because as we release more and more back end technology we hope to improve that. At the moment we work on that basis for lots of reasons but they are primarily technology driven. not commercial. we need to get the back end technology to a higher level and that is coming in our next couple of releases. we want our technology to be exchange level compatible. I think it will be a different level within the next six months.
Hope that helps.
Many thanks for your balanced view on events and thanks for taking the time to speak with Oliver. remember we are always here to help and assist you.
regards peter
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Hi Peter,
I spoke to Oliver this afternoon. All is clearer now about my trade. Although I'm not sure if it helps me in stop setting at the moment. If GFT's prices are consistently 0.5p worse than yours on either side on spikes, then probably the best I can do is to use GFT's charts for longs.
Here is my understanding from the conversation.
Your bid and ask prices come from bid and ask prices on a variety of order book sources, that these derived prices are used to publish prices on your platform twice per second.
In deriving your prices from the different order books, you exclude 'rogue' source bids/asks that are outside of the general range. eg I think for my trade a Bloomberg order book bid at 1433 was excluded from the composite price.
The prices that you publish twice a second are what is used to trigger stops and fill the stop. There is no requirement for a trade to have occurred at the price (on your platform or on the exchange) in order to trigger the stop.
The prices you publish are worked out by your proprietary algorithms from the multiple order book sources and have no direct relationship whatsoever with the traded prices on a DMA platform.
For a DMA broker, my understanding is that a trade has to occur at or below the stop level to trigger the stop, which then triggers a market sell order, which can fill below or above the stop level depending on what bids become available.
For charts, (no timescales for this at the moment), you are working on publishing the high asks and low bids on bars/candlesticks for the different time intervals as opposed to the current close of the time interval.
You are also looking to show the high ask and low bid of the day just below the current tradeable bid ask prices at the top right of each chart.
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Hi Uchiki
I think best thing is for you to speak to Oliver xxx on xxx. He was the guy who dealt with your original query. Let me know if any problems. sorry for late reply was really busy yesterday.
tks peter
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Hi Peter,
I appreciated your response.
Unfortunate with the spread charts, but as long as people realise what information is being provided, then less chance of misunderstandings.
For the time being, I will continue to use the GFT charts for setting stops on CMC trades.
As far as the actual trade is concerned, I have dug a bit deeper.
I have a listing of Time and Sales for FRES from my interactivebrokers a/c for 9th Feb between 08:03:09 and 08:03:15 which shows a trade at 08:03:09 at 1445. As prior trades were above this level, I can only assume that this is what triggered my 1439 stop. Subsequent trades for the next minute were at or above this level.
Basically I'm concerned that a 6p difference from the market was enough to trigger my stop, and further that a 9p difference from the market was used to exit my position.
There was actually a bid at 1447 for a block of shares just larger than my position just after the trade at 1445.
Probably the best thing is if you could refer me to someone with which I can liaise over the time and sales info.
I do realise that the market tends to be volatile near the open, but the key thing is having confidence that I'm not being overpenalised by a wider than expected spread, or at the least understanding how wide that spread can be.
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Hi Uchiki
Thanks for your posting yesterday. I felt that because your post was about one of your trades I could not post the answer for the forum to see. This is confidential but if you want to post my reply that is your choice and I have no problem with that.
I have had a dealer check your execution and I can confirm that 1435.93 was the first available price once your stop was triggered. The dealer did check the level independently of our platform and he/we are happy that your trade was executed correctly.
Our charts do not currently enable users to see every tick published by CMC and therefore should only be used as a guide to where a product traded. The Spread charts will use the closing price on the interval specified, so unless the high or low point happens to fall exactly on one of the data points selected you will be unable to see the full range of price movements. Candle and OHLC Charts use the Mid prices to create a view of price movement within the selected interval.
Hope that clarifies the situation.
Regards Peter
-----
Hi Uchiki
I have no problems with you posting my replies public. it is your choice.
It is very important to remember that bets are bets and have to be treated like a bet if you want all the tax benefits. If you start dma-ing bets then they start to take on a different structure and that might not be helpful.
If you want dma type execution then you have to look at cfds and pay the commission separately.
many thanks peter
-----
Hi Peter,
Prospreads do appear to give DMA prices (when I tracked silver on their demo platform against interactivebrokers, it was pretty much tick for tick), but add on their betting spread 'post-transaction'. eg for silver futures contracts, you buy when the underlying market ask price hits your bid eg at 30.01, but then an additional cost of 0.002 is added ie your buying cost is 30.012 rather than 30.01. I've just confirmed that the same happens with stops. ie a sell stop at 29.89 would be triggered if the underlying market touches 29.89 and filled at 29.888.
Their minimum lot size is the lot size on the underlying market eg a full silver futures contract and they don't cover stocks at all. I understand that the lot size flexibility you offer will likely incur higher charges, but I do like their approach. It means that entries and stops can be set based upon the broad market, rather than a subset (eg CMC or GFT) of the market for which no complete chart data is currently available.
This has been a useful discussion for me. I would like to put our exchange into the public forum tomorrow.
-----
Dear Uchiki
I am glad you seem happy with the sequence of events and Oliver was able to clarify the situation. I have a couple of points.
1. when we quote a price because it is spread bet we have to include in the price the commissions, levey etc. so it is just not possible for any spread bet first to give you dma price that trades on the exchanges because there are add ons. With dma price the add ons are added afterwards. Therefore you always get the pure price from the markets and it is easier to follow market prices etc. Betting is betting and although bet execution has these additional add ons into the price you have the cgt advantage to take into consideration.
2. You are right that prices take two prices per second. That is only a temporary thing because as we release more and more back end technology we hope to improve that. At the moment we work on that basis for lots of reasons but they are primarily technology driven. not commercial. we need to get the back end technology to a higher level and that is coming in our next couple of releases. we want our technology to be exchange level compatible. I think it will be a different level within the next six months.
Hope that helps.
Many thanks for your balanced view on events and thanks for taking the time to speak with Oliver. remember we are always here to help and assist you.
regards peter
-----
Hi Peter,
I spoke to Oliver this afternoon. All is clearer now about my trade. Although I'm not sure if it helps me in stop setting at the moment. If GFT's prices are consistently 0.5p worse than yours on either side on spikes, then probably the best I can do is to use GFT's charts for longs.
Here is my understanding from the conversation.
Your bid and ask prices come from bid and ask prices on a variety of order book sources, that these derived prices are used to publish prices on your platform twice per second.
In deriving your prices from the different order books, you exclude 'rogue' source bids/asks that are outside of the general range. eg I think for my trade a Bloomberg order book bid at 1433 was excluded from the composite price.
The prices that you publish twice a second are what is used to trigger stops and fill the stop. There is no requirement for a trade to have occurred at the price (on your platform or on the exchange) in order to trigger the stop.
The prices you publish are worked out by your proprietary algorithms from the multiple order book sources and have no direct relationship whatsoever with the traded prices on a DMA platform.
For a DMA broker, my understanding is that a trade has to occur at or below the stop level to trigger the stop, which then triggers a market sell order, which can fill below or above the stop level depending on what bids become available.
For charts, (no timescales for this at the moment), you are working on publishing the high asks and low bids on bars/candlesticks for the different time intervals as opposed to the current close of the time interval.
You are also looking to show the high ask and low bid of the day just below the current tradeable bid ask prices at the top right of each chart.
-----
Hi Uchiki
I think best thing is for you to speak to Oliver xxx on xxx. He was the guy who dealt with your original query. Let me know if any problems. sorry for late reply was really busy yesterday.
tks peter
-----
Hi Peter,
I appreciated your response.
Unfortunate with the spread charts, but as long as people realise what information is being provided, then less chance of misunderstandings.
For the time being, I will continue to use the GFT charts for setting stops on CMC trades.
As far as the actual trade is concerned, I have dug a bit deeper.
I have a listing of Time and Sales for FRES from my interactivebrokers a/c for 9th Feb between 08:03:09 and 08:03:15 which shows a trade at 08:03:09 at 1445. As prior trades were above this level, I can only assume that this is what triggered my 1439 stop. Subsequent trades for the next minute were at or above this level.
Basically I'm concerned that a 6p difference from the market was enough to trigger my stop, and further that a 9p difference from the market was used to exit my position.
There was actually a bid at 1447 for a block of shares just larger than my position just after the trade at 1445.
Probably the best thing is if you could refer me to someone with which I can liaise over the time and sales info.
I do realise that the market tends to be volatile near the open, but the key thing is having confidence that I'm not being overpenalised by a wider than expected spread, or at the least understanding how wide that spread can be.
-----
Hi Uchiki
Thanks for your posting yesterday. I felt that because your post was about one of your trades I could not post the answer for the forum to see. This is confidential but if you want to post my reply that is your choice and I have no problem with that.
I have had a dealer check your execution and I can confirm that 1435.93 was the first available price once your stop was triggered. The dealer did check the level independently of our platform and he/we are happy that your trade was executed correctly.
Our charts do not currently enable users to see every tick published by CMC and therefore should only be used as a guide to where a product traded. The Spread charts will use the closing price on the interval specified, so unless the high or low point happens to fall exactly on one of the data points selected you will be unable to see the full range of price movements. Candle and OHLC Charts use the Mid prices to create a view of price movement within the selected interval.
Hope that clarifies the situation.
Regards Peter
One big reason why I stopped using CMC and other non-DMA type spread-betting firms. The charts are too erratic and don't benefit from the price behaviour of the whole market.
PC at CMC Markets
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Yes I have... very sexy, especially if like me you like tight black stockings, etc. etc. But no option for automated scripting and I can't use charting tools that I've already invested in. I would say that the service is really only appropriate for end of day or weekly bets.
PC at CMC Markets
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Hi Luc
I think that was a compliment of sorts. I agree next gen is very sexy but there is so much more to come.
Ultimately we want to give you everything you need to trade including superb charting. We will be constantly innovating our charts, this is all still early days but once you start seeing more releases starting in next few weeks you will see more and more coming through. you wait for next gen cfds due very soon. so much more sexy stuff to come. You will not be able to resist us ha ha
regards Peter
I think that was a compliment of sorts. I agree next gen is very sexy but there is so much more to come.
Ultimately we want to give you everything you need to trade including superb charting. We will be constantly innovating our charts, this is all still early days but once you start seeing more releases starting in next few weeks you will see more and more coming through. you wait for next gen cfds due very soon. so much more sexy stuff to come. You will not be able to resist us ha ha
regards Peter
Here is a positive request from me Peter.
I haven't find any possibility to export a CSV file from Account history. This feature is important in order to extract information on aspects of your trading performance. Have I missed it, if not, do you plan to introduce such a feature?
I haven't find any possibility to export a CSV file from Account history. This feature is important in order to extract information on aspects of your trading performance. Have I missed it, if not, do you plan to introduce such a feature?
PC at CMC Markets
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Hi Mr positive gle101
no you cannot export files yet and will not be available in next release. You can print files but not down load them yet.
tks peter
no you cannot export files yet and will not be available in next release. You can print files but not down load them yet.
tks peter
Here is a positive request from me Peter.
I haven't find any possibility to export a CSV file from Account history. This feature is important in order to extract information on aspects of your trading performance. Have I missed it, if not, do you plan to introduce such a feature?
Thanks, OK I guess one have to wait for this feature. I am surprised that you don't have this in the front line of features, I suppose you do have it on the CFDs platform.
Hi Peter, thanks for taking your time to post on these boards. One quick question which arises from another thread. Do you make a debit for short positions at the moment because interest rates are so low or is there no adjustment for the overnight financing for a sell bet, say on UK equties? (sorry if this has already been asked!)
PC at CMC Markets
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good morning Uchiki
Many thanks for this reply it saves me going back through the threads to check the details. I will also answer the thread myself personally just waiting for something back from client support.
cheers peter
Many thanks for this reply it saves me going back through the threads to check the details. I will also answer the thread myself personally just waiting for something back from client support.
cheers peter
PC at CMC Markets
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Hi Nodga
Many thanks for your posting.
Here is the definition of our Financing Costs that are applicable to Spread Betting: You pay a borrowing cost whether you are long or short. If you are trading Commodities or Currencies you can receive a payment if the Holding costs are positive are greater than the Borrowing Cost.
A Bet Financing Cost is incurred if a bet is held open at 00:00 GMT / 01:00 BST each day, including weekends. The Bet Financing Cost is the sum of both the Bet Borrowing Cost and the Bet Holding Cost. The Bet Borrowing Cost is applied to the unfunded portion of the bet and the Bet Holding Cost, which is equivalent to the cost of holding the underlying asset, is applied to the total value of the bet.
When you take a spread bet position with CMC Markets, the Margin required to open that position represents only a small part of the value of that position. The Bet Borrowing Cost is the cost of ‘borrowing’ the value of the unfunded portion of a bet. We calculate the rate applicable to the Bet Borrowing Cost with reference to interbank lending rates. The Bet Borrowing Cost is only applicable to bets on the following product types: Indices, Companies and Commodities.
The Bet Holding Cost is only applicable to bets on Commodities and Currencies. Investing directly in certain assets carries an associated cost of physically holding those assets for a period of time. For instance, if you buy futures on crude oil, someone has to store that oil until the delivery date. The Bet Holding Cost represents the cost or benefit in holding an asset.
hope that helps
Peter
Many thanks for your posting.
Here is the definition of our Financing Costs that are applicable to Spread Betting: You pay a borrowing cost whether you are long or short. If you are trading Commodities or Currencies you can receive a payment if the Holding costs are positive are greater than the Borrowing Cost.
A Bet Financing Cost is incurred if a bet is held open at 00:00 GMT / 01:00 BST each day, including weekends. The Bet Financing Cost is the sum of both the Bet Borrowing Cost and the Bet Holding Cost. The Bet Borrowing Cost is applied to the unfunded portion of the bet and the Bet Holding Cost, which is equivalent to the cost of holding the underlying asset, is applied to the total value of the bet.
When you take a spread bet position with CMC Markets, the Margin required to open that position represents only a small part of the value of that position. The Bet Borrowing Cost is the cost of ‘borrowing’ the value of the unfunded portion of a bet. We calculate the rate applicable to the Bet Borrowing Cost with reference to interbank lending rates. The Bet Borrowing Cost is only applicable to bets on the following product types: Indices, Companies and Commodities.
The Bet Holding Cost is only applicable to bets on Commodities and Currencies. Investing directly in certain assets carries an associated cost of physically holding those assets for a period of time. For instance, if you buy futures on crude oil, someone has to store that oil until the delivery date. The Bet Holding Cost represents the cost or benefit in holding an asset.
hope that helps
Peter
Hi Peter, thanks for your extensive reply!
So to apply this to an example if I held a sell of £10 per point on XYZ share at 100p and I have £100 in my account to cover the margin, you will apply overnight financing on the remaining £900 (the Bet Borrowing Cost).
Say the interbank lending rate is 0.5%, you add/subtract 2.0% for long/short (is that right, you maybe more or less than the 2.0%) so for my short position I will pay -1.5% on the £900 (roughly 3.7p a night).
Is that right?!
So to apply this to an example if I held a sell of £10 per point on XYZ share at 100p and I have £100 in my account to cover the margin, you will apply overnight financing on the remaining £900 (the Bet Borrowing Cost).
Say the interbank lending rate is 0.5%, you add/subtract 2.0% for long/short (is that right, you maybe more or less than the 2.0%) so for my short position I will pay -1.5% on the £900 (roughly 3.7p a night).
Is that right?!
andyhawes
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Hi Peter,
I just wanted to say a big thank you for taking the time to meet me in person at your offices today, and to honestly answer each and every one of my questions.
It's great that you are looking to create a spread betting platform that is future proof, and even better that you are willing to take on board constructive criticism from those of us that actually use it.
As I explained to yourself, Paul & Adam, there are a few niggles with the platform but it sounds like you have a long list of improvements in the pipeline.
Oh and the coffee was great by the way!
Thanks & Regards,
Andy.
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