Best Thread CMC Markets owner answers your questions

[PC at CMC Markets]

hi 4x4

Thanks for doing this and please report openly on this forum your findings.

tks pc

As I mentioned before - the execution (although a lot slower than it was) is not too much of a concern to me. I've rarely had any execution problems from IG as I don't trade news releases, just at times of what I would call 'normal volatility' on the day. Nothing has changed my end - still using a Falcon F-22 computer and BT broadband.

It is the accuracy of my stops being triggered that is of most concern to me, because this unknown cost has to be added to the spread to get the REAL costs - an important part of any business, as I'm sue you'll agree. When I tried your platform before, stop slippage was occasional enough not to be of concern - now it seems like a regular occurrence.

Fortunately my partner trades with me, so cost comparison can easily be made against an alternative broker - I will keep a log and will report back - I will include entries also, but as these are made manually they won't be scientific as she's always a couple or so hundredths slower than me at getting in, but 8 times out of 10 will get a better price than me - even on the same platform.

 

[Ross Spur]

Hmm. If the platform fills automatically, 'slippage' of this type should work both ways, so the positive and negatives cancel out?

 

[PC at CMC Markets]

hi gle101,

For us there is no such thing as slippage. We always quote across our whole client base our trading price at the time. the process is done without any regard to whether a client is buyer or seller. we always quote our price. if there is stop triggered then whatever our price is at the time is when the deal gets executed. there is no process to determine whether the deal is stop or new fresh order.

The point about fill or kill service against our fill or fill service is that if you are dealing on tight spreads and the market is moving (even normal market movements) then you will get executed with us, on our latest price. if markets are volatile and you are working with fill or kill company then you could be chasing ticket time outs and missing the opportunity to execute your trade. I do not trade any more but when I did, I just wanted to get the trade done and get into the markets. of course execution and spreads are important but if you are chasing the markets and not getting executed then what is the point.

hope that helps
pc

I can't see any reason why there should be any slippage on stop loss orders (unless there is a gap in the market of course). fill or fill service, meaning you can get slipped (market orders) like crazy in a volatile market?

 

[x4x]

Hi 4x4

I seem to always get slippage in my favour on take profit orders, so it will even it's self out over time!

When I'm aiming for 5 pips a time, and I get 1 pip slippage in my favour, that's always a nice treat Only had that once though, it's normally 0.1-0.3 in my favour, so can't grumble!

Big

Heh Big,

I never use profit orders, but good to hear the 'other side'. I would very much like to use CMC because I think Peter is doing a great job on this forum and I like to remain loyal and supportive of any business that is listening and responding to its clients, but at the at the end of the day I owe it to myself to trade with whoever provides the best value and I have noticed a marked change from when I was testing before.

 

[PC at CMC Markets]

hi ross,
statistically i guess you are right. Bit like the football season with penalties
but the point is, is that if you click and trade and trade with a fill or fill broker and you accept execution will even out over a period of your trading then you get the trade executed, you are in the market and have a chance to make money (or lose).

you have seen big in the city say he consistently gets price improvements.

tks pc

Hmm. If the platform fills automatically, 'slippage' of this type should work both ways, so the positive and negatives cancel out?

 

[gle101]

hi gle101,

For us there is no such thing as slippage. We always quote across our whole client base our trading price at the time. the process is done without any regard to whether a client is buyer or seller. we always quote our price. if there is stop triggered then whatever our price is at the time is when the deal gets executed. there is no process to determine whether the deal is stop or new fresh order.

The point about fill or kill service against our fill or fill service is that if you are dealing on tight spreads and the market is moving (even normal market movements) then you will get executed with us, on our latest price. if markets are volatile and you are working with fill or kill company then you could be chasing ticket time outs and missing the opportunity to execute your trade. I do not trade any more but when I did, I just wanted to get the trade done and get into the markets. of course execution and spreads are important but if you are chasing the markets and not getting executed then what is the point.

hope that helps
pc

The thing is, you are still a market maker.

 

[PC at CMC Markets]

hi gle101,

Yes of course but I am explaining how we market maker prices. as a spread betting firm we make you a price on the markets. we are not a broker (this applies to our U.K spread bet business). so every spread bet firm is market maker to it's clients.
I am explaining how we create the prices for clients to trade on.

tks pc

The thing is, you are still a market maker.

 

[gle101]

hi ross,
statistically i guess you are right. Bit like the football season with penalties
but the point is, is that if you click and trade and trade with a fill or fill broker and you accept execution will even out over a period of your trading then you get the trade executed, you are in the market and have a chance to make money (or lose).

you have seen big in the city say he consistently gets price improvements.

tks pc

If that is the case, you don't have "price no longer valid" or re-quote? Surely you must have some kind of internal deviation, from the price sent to you server?

 

[PC at CMC Markets]

what do you mean

If that is the case, you don't have "price no longer valid" or re-quote? Surely you must have some kind of internal deviation, from the price sent to you server?

 

[gle101]

hi gle101,

Yes of course but I am explaining how we market maker prices. as a spread betting firm we make you a price on the markets. we are not a broker (this applies to our U.K spread bet business). so every spread bet firm is market maker to it's clients.
I am explaining how we create the prices for clients to trade on.

tks pc

I thought you got my point, ha ha.

 

[PC at CMC Markets]

I thought you got my point, ha ha.

 

[gle101]

what do you mean

Well you click, the price is sent to your server, it is compared to "your" present price, if there is a deviation within a certain limit, it will be executed at that price anyway, which was clicked by the client. I hope you get my meaning.

 

[PC at CMC Markets]

hi gle101
it is not compared, when we receive a market order it is executed at the price we are quoting at the time. some times this is better than when you entered the order, some times worst. it is fill or fill. click and trade. There is evidence on this forum to prove that there are price improvements and price slippage from when you entered the order.
all I am saying is we do not discriminate. it is first come first served.

pc

Well you click, the price is sent to you server, it is compared to "your" present price, if there is a deviation within a certain limit, it will be executed at the price anyway, which was clicked by the client. I hope you get my meaning.

 

[tar]

Peter hi
There is no such thing as fill or fill !!! , and re the "fill or kill" it is totally different , it means either you fill my whole order or you dont fill it at all ( no partial fills ) it is an order type , it has nothing to do with time-out tickets and requotes ...

 

[gle101]

hi gle101
it is not compared, when we receive a market order it is executed at the price we are quoting at the time. some times this is better than when you entered the order, some times worst. it is fill or fill. click and trade. There is evidence on this forum to prove that there are price improvements and price slippage from when you entered the order.
all I am saying is we do not discriminate. it is first come first served.

pc

If this is the case, slippage could indeed be a problem, however this should not apply to limit orders.

 

[PC at CMC Markets]

hi tar,
well on next gen we give you a price and a size for the ticket. so when we quote it is good for a size. e.g on ftse 100 our spread is 0.9 and our price is good for up to £100 per point..
when you click we execute the trade immediately it is fill or fill. there is no killing of your ticket because the markets have moved. there is no partial fill because you can trade up to that amount. if you want to trade £200 pp you have to enter two trades. normally £100 pp covers most of our client size. for bigger amounts we offer a sales trading service. with some of our competitors, they offer fill or kill which is what you described but we are always good for an amount. to see the amount per product please select product overview on the platform or from the product ticket. look for chevron.

remember spread betting is a leverage product, you should understand the risks before trading.

tks pc

Peter hi
There is no such thing as fill or fill !!! , and re "fill or kill" it is totally different it means either you fill my whole order or you dont fill it at all ( no partial fills ) it is an order type , it has nothing to do with time-out tickets and requotes ...

 

[PC at CMC Markets]

hi gle101,
as I explained some times the price moves for you or against you. we do not discriminate.
tks pc

If this is the case, slippage could indeed be a problem.

 

[gle101]

Peter hi
There is no such thing as fill or fill !!! , and re the "fill or kill" it is totally different , it means either you fill my whole order or you dont fill it at all ( no partial fills ) it is an order type , it has nothing to do with time-out tickets and requotes ...

I think he is referring to the SB industry type of terminology.

 

[gle101]

hi gle101,
as I explained some times the price moves for you or against you. we do not discriminate.
tks pc

Yes, it is good that we get to know what kind of model you are implementing, all have their strength and weakness.

 

[tar]

hi tar,
well on next gen we give you a price and a size for the ticket. so when we quote it is good for a size. e.g on ftse 100 our spread is 0.9 and our price is good for up to £100 per point..
when you click we execute the trade immediately it is fill or fill. there is no killing of your ticket because the markets have moved. there is no partial fill because you can trade up to that amount. if you want to trade £200 pp you have to enter two trades. normally £100 pp covers most of our client size. for bigger amounts we offer a sales trading service. with some of our competitors, they offer fill or kill which is what you described but we are always good for an amount. to see the amount per product please select product overview on the platform or from the product ticket. look for chevron.

remember spread betting is a leverage product, you should understand the risks before trading.

tks pc

Peter hi

It is called "no re-quotes" , not "fill or fill" or "fill or kill" you are mixing things up .