Hi, ...does anybody know if is possible to simultaneously open long and short positions of the same currency pair in tradestation 8.3 ...i know it wasn't possible when they were using Gain Capital's platform but now they've integrated forex to their own platform...i use this feature as part of my strategy in metatrader 4 but don`t know if it is available in tradestation and would like to be sure ...thanks in advance ..any feedback would be very much appreciated.
peto
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Wouldn't staying flat be considerably cheaper for the same result?!
You would think, but fortunately it works and it's not as simple as it sounds...To start, i didn't mean to imply the positions were to be taken at the same exact moment in time, but rather later. The second -inverse- position is supposed to be activated in the event the market goes against you, much like a stop loss order. This is done to momentarily freeze the loss and to keep the margin level from falling as well. This happens to work better than a stop loss orders which once activated it will make the loss permanent...
It is a very useful feature to have. Simply put, it allows hedging with the same currency pair which IMHO it's better and more efficient. If you haven't use this strategy i recommend you do. Metatraders have that feature. Try it on a demo account and see for yourself...
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TheBramble
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If you’re initiating an inverse position when the market goes against you I fail to understand how that is any different to activating a stop loss. You’re still flat, and the loss is as permanent as it’s ever going to be. There is only one process involved – taking an equal and opposite position.
It's simple. You buy time. Remember, the market fluctuates. Hence, there is the possibility you could shift the position closer together, closing the gap (reducing the loss)... This is impossible to do with a stop loss order -when it activates it activates period; so then, your loss is a loss, nothing else --i didn't said sit idle, do nothing, then close both positions...did i?!...fight!!...its a mathematical thing...try it!...if you still think it's too much work then forget about it...
TheBramble
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I still have no idea what you're talking about. Which could well be a Monday morning thing for me….or it could be something more fundamental…
(a) You have an open position. You have a stop loss. Your trade moves against you and your stop loss triggers. You’re flat. You’re down X pips.
(b) You have an open position. You have no stop loss, but you have a level at which you would have put a stop loss had you used one, and where you will cover your open position by taking an opposing position. Your trade moves against you and you take the opposite position. You’re effectively flat as the two open positions will yield the same delta – forever – until you close one or both them. You’re down X pips. You only ‘think’ you have two open positions and only ‘think’ you have no loss.
Regardless of what the instrument subsequently does, you’re in exactly the same position had you taken a stop loss at the point that stop loss level was hit or whether you’re still running two separate and opposite positions when you decide to close one or both of them – your net position is identical up to that point.
What is it in what you’re doing in (b) that I’m not getting? Or more likely, what is it you thought you were doing in (b) that I don’t think you are???
(a) You have an open position. You have a stop loss. Your trade moves against you and your stop loss triggers. You’re flat. You’re down X pips.
(b) You have an open position. You have no stop loss, but you have a level at which you would have put a stop loss had you used one, and where you will cover your open position by taking an opposing position. Your trade moves against you and you take the opposite position. You’re effectively flat as the two open positions will yield the same delta – forever – until you close one or both them. You’re down X pips. You only ‘think’ you have two open positions and only ‘think’ you have no loss.
Regardless of what the instrument subsequently does, you’re in exactly the same position had you taken a stop loss at the point that stop loss level was hit or whether you’re still running two separate and opposite positions when you decide to close one or both of them – your net position is identical up to that point.
What is it in what you’re doing in (b) that I’m not getting? Or more likely, what is it you thought you were doing in (b) that I don’t think you are???
peto
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Thanks GJ. Tony has a way with words though, best leave him to it.
Can you lend me a fiver till next week please? Then I'll give you a fiver. Please realise that the fiver I give you next week is not to repay the original one (I'll repay that later on). No, this represents me lending you a fiver. Then in a couple of weeks we can swap fivers again, then we'll be quits. Probably. My head is starting to hurt.
Guy guys, FOCUS, we are losing perspective here!! We are straying from the original question which is: "can or can't you open opposite positions of the same currency pair in Tradestation 8.3...???"
It's not that i mind discussing my strategies with you guy, which i don't, but i really need to know...
Back to the strategy ...i said in the beginning that it isn't as simple as it sounds. Here is how it goes... 1) i open a position hoping to win some dough, with no stop loss --there is not stop loss involved: i don't use it with this strategy... 2) at a certain level if the market turns (-) i take an opposite position to freeze the loss in time... 3) i keep trading, shifting the positions closer and closer with every price swing, while taking profits... 4) i close the positions --hopefully with no loss or with a smaller loss than that in the beginning (remember i keep shifting them)... That's it! ... The key is DON'T STOP TRADING or the position will indeed remain FLAT to the infinity.
It's not that i mind discussing my strategies with you guy, which i don't, but i really need to know...
Back to the strategy ...i said in the beginning that it isn't as simple as it sounds. Here is how it goes... 1) i open a position hoping to win some dough, with no stop loss --there is not stop loss involved: i don't use it with this strategy... 2) at a certain level if the market turns (-) i take an opposite position to freeze the loss in time... 3) i keep trading, shifting the positions closer and closer with every price swing, while taking profits... 4) i close the positions --hopefully with no loss or with a smaller loss than that in the beginning (remember i keep shifting them)... That's it! ... The key is DON'T STOP TRADING or the position will indeed remain FLAT to the infinity.
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TheBramble
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anonybot, when you take that 2nd trade (what most would call a stop loss) you have effectively closed your first trade out. Your loss/profit is there - forever. You may well wish to open another trade in that same instrument, and place what you call an 'inverse' trade (aka a stop) - in any event, it effectively closes your open trade. And that's what we all do. Over time you will end up either ahead, flat or behind.
You need to recognise that what you are doing is opening and closing (one trade) multiple times in the instrument and not just running the same position on and on.
Instead of wondering about separate accounts to run this, do it in just one account. It will signify to you far more clearly what it is I am attempting so unsuccessfully to explicate.
I'm now no longer sure this isn't a wind up, but my gentle muse of trading suggests I continue to assume lack of clarity on your part rather than negative or mischievous intent.
You need to recognise that what you are doing is opening and closing (one trade) multiple times in the instrument and not just running the same position on and on.
Instead of wondering about separate accounts to run this, do it in just one account. It will signify to you far more clearly what it is I am attempting so unsuccessfully to explicate.
I'm now no longer sure this isn't a wind up, but my gentle muse of trading suggests I continue to assume lack of clarity on your part rather than negative or mischievous intent.
Tony, i think i get your confusion. Apparently you are trading in a platform that does not support this feature --and i hope it's not Tradestation. However, if you are indeed using Tradestation and cannot do this, then Tradestation unfortunately lacks that feature i'm looking for. The second (opposite) position does not and should not cancel the first one out if the platform supports what in some circles is known as hedging. Each position, one (or many) going long and the other(s) short, is/are supposed to live in its/their own space and remain opened until you decide to close them... The Metatrader platform is capable of doing this. The Gain Capital platform, for instance, cannot...
If that is not the confusion then i am the one very confused and shall remain confused until someone deconfuses my confusion.
If that is not the confusion then i am the one very confused and shall remain confused until someone deconfuses my confusion.
TheBramble
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Ah...just got it. Welcome back.
Byeeeee......
Byeeeee......
Let me try. There are only two operations you can do on any platform. Buy(+) and Sell(-). Whether the platform allows you to account for these as different positions makes no difference. Take the same sequence of buy and sell trades you do on Metatrader and do them on Gain and you will end up with the same result. The difference is in your mind, but that's OK. If the delusion that you haven't realised the loss until you close all your tickets helps you, then carry on.
Absolutely. More and more FX brokers are catching on to this scam. They encourage traders to hold hedged positions because it's free money for them. The client is out of the market but the brokers still get to charge interest and hold margin! What's hard to believe is how many people fall for this. You only have to look at some of the FX forums to see how many suckers there are who think they are doing something clever while their brokers are laughing all the way to the bank.
What will they think of next?
tightstops
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not to mention the greater propensity as indicated to duck in and out of the market with 2 'open positions'
"Programming today is a race between
software engineers striving to build
bigger and better idiot-proof programs,
and the Universe trying to produce
bigger and better idiots. So far,
the Universe is winning."
Rick Cook, The Wizardry Compiled
It's a sorry state of mind to blame one's shortcomings and incompetence on the computer or the program that runs in it, really. If it's true there are lots of scammers out there to get every one of us (if you let them), it is also obvious there are lots of clumsy traders who "dilude" themselves into believing they too can trade ...If i don't understand a feature in any program, or anything, i choose NOT to use that feature until i make sure i understand it fully --but that's just me: I don't follow herds ...'Choice', my friend, is one of the magnificent perks of democracy ...people like you, are entitled to their own opinions; thankfully, i can choose to ignore ignorance.
"The release of atom power has changed everything
except our way of thinking...the solution to this
problem lies in the heart of mankind. If only I had
known, I should have become a watchmaker."
- A. Einstein
Read the numbers of this forward test and see for yourselves who is full of what. Remember, these are the results of the same "inefficient/hopeless strategy" that some of these so-called experts could not grasp.
Report Period: 2007 Jul - 2007 Aug
...
Gross Profit: 28 709.66
Gross Loss: 4 614.28
Total Net Profit: 24 095.38
Profit Factor: 6.22
Expected Payoff: 148.74
Absolute Drawdown: 0.00
Maximal Drawdown: 4 244.20 (8.78%)
Relative Drawdown: 8.78% (4 244.20)
Total Trades: 162
Short Positions (won %): 120 (94.17%)
Long Positions (won %): 42 (95.24%)
Profit Trades (% of total): 153 (94.44%)
Loss trades (% of total): 9 (5.56%)
Largest profit trade: 3 152.93 loss trade: -3 065.16
Average profit trade: 187.64 loss trade: -512.70
Maximum consecutive wins ($): 49 (19 958.23) consecutive losses ($): 2 (-4 054.39)
Maximal consecutive profit (count): 19 958.23 (49) consecutive loss (count): -4 054.39 (2)
Average consecutive wins: 19 consecutive losses: 1
Mediocrity doesn't mean average intelligence,
it means an average intelligence that resents
and envies its betters.
-Ayn Rand
Report Period: 2007 Jul - 2007 Aug
...
Gross Profit: 28 709.66
Gross Loss: 4 614.28
Total Net Profit: 24 095.38
Profit Factor: 6.22
Expected Payoff: 148.74
Absolute Drawdown: 0.00
Maximal Drawdown: 4 244.20 (8.78%)
Relative Drawdown: 8.78% (4 244.20)
Total Trades: 162
Short Positions (won %): 120 (94.17%)
Long Positions (won %): 42 (95.24%)
Profit Trades (% of total): 153 (94.44%)
Loss trades (% of total): 9 (5.56%)
Largest profit trade: 3 152.93 loss trade: -3 065.16
Average profit trade: 187.64 loss trade: -512.70
Maximum consecutive wins ($): 49 (19 958.23) consecutive losses ($): 2 (-4 054.39)
Maximal consecutive profit (count): 19 958.23 (49) consecutive loss (count): -4 054.39 (2)
Average consecutive wins: 19 consecutive losses: 1
Mediocrity doesn't mean average intelligence,
it means an average intelligence that resents
and envies its betters.
-Ayn Rand
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rols
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I see another paper genius is amongst us.
I hope his mum doesn't find out he's been messing about on the internet again.....
Why doesn't annoy bot address his six million dollar question to the TS forums instead of hanging about here annoying everybody?
https://www.tradestation.com/support/whats_new/build1353.aspx
http://forum.tssupport.com/
I hope his mum doesn't find out he's been messing about on the internet again.....
Why doesn't annoy bot address his six million dollar question to the TS forums instead of hanging about here annoying everybody?
https://www.tradestation.com/support/whats_new/build1353.aspx
http://forum.tssupport.com/