Bonds could be bottoming but....

carleygarner

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February 3, 2011


Bonds could be bottoming but....

The Treasury market seems to be attempting to form an intermediate term low, but it has been in the process of doing this for months now and has made little upside progress. With speculators, both large and small, net short it feels like the market is at risk of a probing low before any sort of sustainable rally can occur.

If it weren't for persistent Fed buying, the long flush we have been patiently looking for might have already occurred. Today the Fed purchases a whopping $8.87 billion worth of Treasury securities with expiration dates ranging from 2016/2018.

Once again, the day's data suggested the recovery is on track. ISM services printed 59.4, to beat expectations of 57. Analysts were looking for a draw in factory orders but an uptick was reported instead.

Tomorrow morning the government will release the latest data on the jobs front. Analysts are expecting nonfarm payrolls to have seen an increase of about 150,000 jobs and the unemployment rate of 9.5% (a tick higher than last month). According to Ben Bernanke today, "we are seeing some encouraging job market signs." Despite the Fed's optimism, there seems to be some market jitters.
The monthly employment data often triggers pent up market volatility and can sometimes be a catalyst for a reversal. We can't help but think the market might make one more probing low (just to torture the remaining bulls) before turning around and the employment report might be the event that makes this a reality. If so, look for a plunge below 118 in the 30-year bond before or after the news for a place to be bullish. If it turns out to be a non-event...all bets are off and back to range trading we will go.





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We are very far from bonds bottoming out. Good luck with your long position.
 
Hey Pento, bet your wanting to take that comment back, huh? She called it "right on" mate...actually to be exact the very bottom that very bloody Monday after. I'm sure your short position was not fun to watch.

This lady either has a crystal ball or gets the Wall Street Journal early. I fancy her also
 
You are joking right?

We've had a move up sure, but it hasn't exactly been a rally up has it??

From the heights that the bonds have collapsed from and in the short space of time in which they did, an upwards bounce back of a hundred ticks isn't a surprise.

My view is based on a long term time frame, not just short term price moves. Considering the geopolitcal tensions in the world today I would say the bonds have had a token up move but not in any real strength. With the stuff that's going on I would have expected much sharper rallies but as these have not materialised I remain with my bearish outlook on bonds.

Good luck being long.
 
Maybe you should re-read the post before you make yourself look foolish. The first sentence of the post states : "The Treasury market seems to be attempting to form an intermediate term low, but it has been in the process of doing this for months now and has made little upside progress."

Just in case you missed it, the 11th word of the post states "intermediate". This was not a long-term projection. Besides...wouldn't it have been nice to cover some or all of your shorts on the plunge and then resell them at much better prices? This is a post about futures and options trading and in that arena, two months is considered long-term.

Good luck not with a short and hold strategy, markets don't go straight up or straight down. In the long run, interest rates will go up...that is a no brainer! But making money on it is a different story.
 
it's academic really(read: 'pointless opinion!'), personally id say intermediate is a few weeks to 6 months, but having said that, a time frame is just an expectation of the time your objectives will be achieved, or the time you will re-evaluate the position. if a target is reached in 1 week, then why wouldnt you turn into a short term trader and (partially) cover?

As for bonds, the interest rates must move higher eventually, meaning bonds will fall as the long term global macro funds start selling again. the 'basing action' we see is shorts profit taking, hedgers who are short the paper going long, etc - 2 market time frame participants with different opinions due to their different perspectives. my 2cents.
 
Maybe you should re-read the post before you make yourself look foolish. The first sentence of the post states : "The Treasury market seems to be attempting to form an intermediate term low, but it has been in the process of doing this for months now and has made little upside progress."

Just in case you missed it, the 11th word of the post states "intermediate". This was not a long-term projection. Besides...wouldn't it have been nice to cover some or all of your shorts on the plunge and then resell them at much better prices? This is a post about futures and options trading and in that arena, two months is considered long-term.

Good luck not with a short and hold strategy, markets don't go straight up or straight down. In the long run, interest rates will go up...that is a no brainer! But making money on it is a different story.


The first line supports my viewpoint.

"The Treasury market seems to be attempting to form an intermediate term low, but it has been in the process of doing this for months now and has made little upside progress."

As quoted the same line could be posted in a new thread and it still applies. Bonds are still trending lower on a long term basis, and the recent move up can hardly be described as bonds having bottomed out. If they carry on up for the rest of 2011 then yeah fair enough we bottomed out and I was wrong.

In the futures and options arena how is 2 months considered long term?? Never heard anything as bizarre as that. What would you call 6 months? 1 year trades don't ever come up on your radar I'm assuming. If you're a day trader then sure 2 months is long, but not every participant/speculator/trader in the futures space is day trading.

I'm not basing my short view on interest rates going up. As you say "that is a no brainer".

Yeah course it would have been nice to cover my shorts and then sell them back higher a week later. Hindsight is a beautiful mistress. So I take it you got long at the bottom and sold the top a week later to buy it back 2 days later a dip and then sold on the next leg up to reverse your position to get short which you then flipped back long after buying the short term low on a stronger than expected figure?

Thanks for pointing out to me that markets don't go straight up and then straight down, I had completely forgotten that. But luckily for me I haven't forgotten how to make money and am still profitable on the position.
 
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