Be-aware of finspreads

[Phil Mibbutz]

The only thing I noticed when I had my SB account, was that they would re-quote when the price went against them .

Things haven't changed, IMO. You can usually only open a position if it's already gone against you by the notional spread. With longer term trades, this probably won't matter much, but anything approaching scalping will be made difficult or impossible.

 

[Lee Shepherd]

Lee,
Do you think that the majority of complaints about SB's are "sour grapes". I read these threads with interest as I used to have a SB account but moved to IB with direct access. I must admit I have looked into re-opening a SB account to avoid paying Mr Darling 0.5% every time I want to buy UK shares. I know most people say just pay the tax, but I think I pay the chancellor enough as it is.

One thing that does concern me about SB's, is that it's in there interests for the client to lose, although surely not to the point where they go elsewhere.

Have you not had any of the "tricks" played on you that other posters are complaining about ?
The only thing I noticed when I had my SB account, was that they would re-quote when the price went against them, but if the price went in my favour it would stay the same, but that was many years ago.

Hi mate,

Short answer is no.

I trade near to 50 contracts weekly at present, my average last year was 25 a week.
We are all aware of what the SB's firms do, they quote just outside of where its more beneficial for them, if we understand that then we also understand that we will NOT get the best price, for this you HAVE to go DMA.

As for tricks, if you call what I just mentioned tricks then yes, all the time, on most trades, however, this does not stop people from winning money from them.

Understand how SB firms work, they dont care ordinarily if you win or lose, the object for them is to keep their books 50-50 clients long to short, any difference in these two then they have the option to take the EXCESS only to market and hedge their bets WITH you. If you win, so do they and they pass the money they made from the markets (or from clients) to you, if they lose, you've lost as well, they take your money and pay the market (or other clients). Either way, they rap the spread around the price and DO NOT offer the best price available, this is how they make their money. So you see, they dont have to stoop to illegal practices that would get them fined or shut down just to take your money.

 

[gamma]

This is a great explaination Lee,
Hopefully all those traders who think the spreadbet companies have a personal issue with them and single them out for bad treatment will understand the workings of a spreadbet company better by understanding this post

 

[TomTom]

good expaination Lee .
And it is very honarble of you to Admit that they DO NOT offer there custermers the best possible price/quote.

Work in progress,

Even hardened custermers are seeing how SB Firms dont give a fair serivce
.

 

[Lee Shepherd]

good expaination Lee .
And it is very honarble of you to Admit that they DO NOT offer there custermers the best possible price/quote.

Work in progress,

Even hardened custermers are seeing how SB Firms dont give a fair serivce
.

Well done Tom Tom,:clap:

Now your starting to understand, if you want the best price, find yourself a direct to market broker.

Try reading their T&C's, it's all in the mate.:smart:

 

[Phil Mibbutz]

if you want the best price, find yourself a direct to market broker.

But why would anyone not want the best price?

 

[TomTom]

Phil it really beats me M8 , why would any trader require consitant scewered market prices ?

All ready got DMA Lee M8 and since moving from SB Firm for the majority of trades over the past 8 years all has been mighty fine .

 

[Lee Shepherd]

But why would anyone not want the best price?

Dude,

This is text book stuff and I assumed that every one knew this. If you want the best price on the market, go DMA.

One of the reasons is the lower entry level with SB's, also is good for practice without getting your fingers burnt too much, for me its the tax benefits. (and yes, they do outway the spreads and not getting the best price otherwise I wouldn't be using them after all these years).

Please note before we get drawn into petty squables:

NO tax is due to NO income (as its classed as gambling) which holds many problems for most people, ie, no mortgage, HP on car, credit cards, store cards ect.

As for tom thumb, he still uses spreadbet companies so dont pay too much attention to what he says, he's one of these rare saddo's that gets thrills from winding people up.

 

[t10trader]

Just for information can anyone explain why Dax prices on fins are 20pts away from underlying ?

Requoting and slow execution seems to be getting far worse

 

[Lee Shepherd]

Just for information can anyone explain why Dax prices on fins are 20pts away from underlying ?

Requoting and slow execution seems to be getting far worse

I cant explain this cos my prices are very similar, very similar indeed, the spread is rapped around the price so it's pretty much spot on.

Where you getting your prices from???

Also, if you find they are 20pts away, check out arbitrage and make sh1t loads of cash.

 

[Lee Shepherd]

Just for information can anyone explain why Dax prices on fins are 20pts away from underlying ?

Requoting and slow execution seems to be getting far worse

Also, to help you with your slow fills and executions:

I realised this myself the other day when I had friends round to trade with me.

The platforms take up a lot of memory, for this reason I only have one PC dedicated purely for the platform only. I always get quick fills and I do over 50 trades a week and I am also full time. I realised (once again) that by having open my skype and running a gragh on the same PC, it tended to slow up on occassions, this resulted in slow executions and price rejections.

Remember that the prices are streaming in live time, if your computer is only slightly slower in displaying them, by the time you have clicked the price and its been sent down the line to them, although instant, the computer only has to delay this by a second or two for it to be rejected or slow filled. This is the same with online computer games and commonly refered to as ping rate or/and framerate per second. You shoot the enemy in the head but you didnt get them, its because in there time, they had moved before you pulled the trigger.


Remove all cookies from PC and use it only for the platform, nothing else, no gadjets, no web surfing, no chat, nothing (apart from obviously a virus checker).

Even my printer runs off another PC.

Also, just to add, computers are relatively cheap, for around £400 you can pick up a brand new decent one. How much are you prepared to lose before investing money in the right equipment.

 

[TomTom]

I can not see how these scwered prices/quotes can be accepted if traders want to get the most out of there business.
Like my friend says who works for aSB Firm ' I dont know how anyone can make money with our pricing/quoting system'

 

[Lee Shepherd]

Please ignore Tom Tom's posts:

Every one of his posts are agressively against Spreadbet Firms.

Take a look thorugh his posts, every one of them from when he joined is against Spreadbet Firms and how they rip you off.

Tom Tom is attempting to take Spreadbet Firms to court.

Tom Tom actively admits to 'scamming them' as they 'scam others'.

Tom Tom still uses Spreabet Firms himself.

 

[t10trader]

Lee

Thanks for your reply, I did call and eventually spoke to the desk who admitted the prices is out and said I quote place orders at the underlying. I've had an account for years and am fully aware of the "problems" of the sbet platforms. The price differential has nothing to do with network or PC speed, the market was not moving quickly at the time.

FYI I have a one month old quad-core Dell workstation with 4Gb Ram.

Anyone trading without stops on this platform needs thier head examined - don't be suprised with "problems" later today - be careful

 

[Lee Shepherd]

Lee

Thanks for your reply, I did call and eventually spoke to the desk who admitted the prices is out and said I quote place orders at the underlying. I've had an account for years and am fully aware of the "problems" of the sbet platforms. The price differential has nothing to do with network or PC speed, the market was not moving quickly at the time.

FYI I have a one month old quad-core Dell workstation with 4Gb Ram.

Anyone trading without stops on this platform needs thier head examined - don't be suprised with "problems" later today - be careful

Wow, thats a fast PC, twice as fast as any of mine.

Computers will remain getting faster as time goes on, the point stil remains that if anyone is using other applications on the same computer as the platform, it can have an effect on the rate of execution as many sites ect will conflict with the platform.

I only say this due to having a dedicated computer for the platform only, everything else is run on others, I dont experience the same problems that others describe (apart from the rare occassions that obviously happen, slow fills, execution, not getting through on phone and log outs ect, albeit rare, do happen).

 

[ibex666]

sb

tomtom has been burned and stung badly by sb. OR he was sacked from an sb firm in the past.
yes sb has its probs now and then, but never known anyone so ANTI.
You need to put it to bed and forget about it, or its gonna eat u up.

 

[TomTom]

Hey Ibex666 do the maths M8.
The see how much your costs of doing business is.

The wise get wiser and the amautres will learn for what they say, is a saying we have in our country.

 

[Lee Shepherd]

Hey Ibex666 do the maths M8.
The see how much your costs of doing business is.

The wise get wiser and the amautres will learn for what they say, is a saying we have in our country.

We have some very good sayings in this country for people like you as well.

I wont mention any cos I'll get banned.




Please ignore Tom Tom's posts:

Every one of his posts are agressively against Spreadbet Firms.

Take a look through his posts, every one of them from when he joined is against Spreadbet Firms and how they rip you off.

Tom Tom is attempting to take Spreadbet Firms to court.

Tom Tom actively admits to 'scamming them' as they 'scam others'.

Tom Tom still uses Spreadbet Firms himself.

 

[TomTom]

Lowere the dealing costs and ones business will become more profitable.
No wonder you have so many friends at SB Firms, if you gave me so much money in dealing costs you would be my bestest friend LOL.
Do you really think they would be your firends if you did not do business with them ?

 

[Lee Shepherd]

Who said I had I had friends there, I seem to recall that you mentioned you had friends there old boy

Please ignore Tom Tom's posts:

Every one of his posts are agressively against Spreadbet Firms.

Take a look through his posts, every one of them from when he joined is against Spreadbet Firms and how they rip you off.

Tom Tom is attempting to take Spreadbet Firms to court.

Tom Tom actively admits to 'scamming them' as they 'scam others'.

Tom Tom still uses Spreadbet Firms himself.