4 Hour charts

[Glenborrell]

why not trade the underlying reality?

Care to elaborate/explain?

 

[virtuos0]

Care to elaborate/explain?

There's no mystic secret my friend. The underlying reality is simply people buying and selling, for whatever reason, and price moving as a result.

Most retail traders prefer to ignore this, and instead build a bizarre web of nonsense around it to try and make themselves feel smart. Or perhaps to give themselves some comfort that they can apply a few 'rules' and beat the market.

 

[HawkTrader]

Care to elaborate/explain?

The first chart contains a Pin Bar on the 4H chart of GBP/USD. The second chart is that same time, same place, but on the 5m chart. You tell me what you see.

(I'm not saying trade smaller TFs, but I hope you see my point.)

 

[Black Swan]

Whilst on the train last night I was re-reading an e-book "Street Smarts" on my netbook, just remembered a quote which I'll dig out and put on this thread for you, it kinda covers what V2O is saying. In essence our 'job' is to find an edge that exploits the gaps in what the big boys are doing...if that makes sense..I'll dig it out this evening.
I know where you're coming from and in my experience, if you drop down a tf you'll still see the swing, there's other problems associated with that but...

It is important to initially trade a new concept or strategy on paper. Only by
seeing a pattern over and over again will you truly feel comfortable with it. You
must believe in its ability to repeat itself. Don't be surprised if you find yourself
actually becoming excited as you see the patterns begin to set up.

• If a pattern does not make sense to you, don't trade it. If you don't have a 100
percent belief in it, you will not be able to overcome losing streaks.

All you need is one pattern to make a living! Learn first to specialize in doing
one thing well. We know two traders who do nothing but trade the "anti" pattern
from a five-minute S&P chart. Another friend trades only "Three Little Indians" on
tick charts. Traders can earn their living by trading any one of the patterns that we
present in this book.

• Your biggest enemy in trading is going to be a directional bias, an opinion about
market direction ... whether yours, a broker's or a friend's. Shut it out!Learn to
concentrate on the "right-hand side" of the chart-in other words, on the pattern at
hand.

• One of the things you will get out of this book is an increased ability to listen to
the market." Even if a chapter does not seem to suit your personal trading style, it
should at least heighten your awareness of market action and price behaviour at
critical points.

• None of these strategies is designed to be a mechanical system. Be grateful that
they are not! If they were, a large fund would come into the marketplace and exploit
the edge. It is estimated that over 90 percent of the large pools in the commodity
markets are run on a mechanical basis, systematically attempting to exploit trends. It
is very difficult for these funds to move large amounts of money on a short-term time
frame. They do not have the luxury of using resting stop-loss orders without risking
adverse slippage. They cannot be as nimble as the small speculator can-and herein
lies your edge.

• This brings us to the most important point. Initial stop loss orders are
essential! Each strategy in this book will have you entering a protective stop upon
being filled. Stops are necessary for your protection against worst-case scenarios.
(Remember, we are trading on probabilities only.) All it takes is getting sloppy
once, or experiencing the "frozen rabbit syndrome" in a bad trade, to undo the
efforts of the previous 20 trades. Placing initial protective stops must become a habit
that is never broken. As you will see, in most, if not all of the examples, your stops
will risk only a small amount of money.

 

[Glenborrell]

There's no mystic secret my friend. The underlying reality is simply people buying and selling, for whatever reason, and price moving as a result.

Most retail traders prefer to ignore this, and instead build a bizarre web of nonsense around it to try and make themselves feel smart. Or perhaps to give themselves some comfort that they can apply a few 'rules' and beat the market.

Question is. Are you in the "most retail traders group"?

If your not part of the "most retail traders group" and do something different why don't you share what you do. I'd be interested? Do you trade full time? Watch charts all day?

i've just gone about trading in a way thatit suits me. So why all the cryptic messages. If you have something to say then say it. I prefer simple straight forward no Bull Sh*t answers. During today i asked a very simple question, but as yet have not had a smple answer.

By the way, i've not built a web of nonsense and i don't feel smart. What i do do is enjoy doing a little trading and i've chosen a timeframe that my job allows. Quite simple really.

 

[Glenborrell]

The first chart contains a Pin Bar on the 4H chart of GBP/USD. The second chart is that same time, same place, but on the 5m chart. You tell me what you see.

(I'm not saying trade smaller TFs, but I hope you see my point.)

i'm sure i've missed your point so you best just spell it out to me.

 

[noak]

In my opinion 4 hours chart is most important chart for daily trade. Especially it is important to check out it before you open your position.

 

[Glenborrell]

It is important to initially trade a new concept or strategy on paper. Only by
seeing a pattern over and over again will you truly feel comfortable with it. You
must believe in its ability to repeat itself. Don't be surprised if you find yourself
actually becoming excited as you see the patterns begin to set up.

• If a pattern does not make sense to you, don't trade it. If you don't have a 100
percent belief in it, you will not be able to overcome losing streaks.

All you need is one pattern to make a living! Learn first to specialize in doing
one thing well. We know two traders who do nothing but trade the "anti" pattern
from a five-minute S&P chart. Another friend trades only "Three Little Indians" on
tick charts. Traders can earn their living by trading any one of the patterns that we
present in this book.

• Your biggest enemy in trading is going to be a directional bias, an opinion about
market direction ... whether yours, a broker's or a friend's. Shut it out!Learn to
concentrate on the "right-hand side" of the chart-in other words, on the pattern at
hand.

• One of the things you will get out of this book is an increased ability to listen to
the market." Even if a chapter does not seem to suit your personal trading style, it
should at least heighten your awareness of market action and price behaviour at
critical points.

• None of these strategies is designed to be a mechanical system. Be grateful that
they are not! If they were, a large fund would come into the marketplace and exploit
the edge. It is estimated that over 90 percent of the large pools in the commodity
markets are run on a mechanical basis, systematically attempting to exploit trends. It
is very difficult for these funds to move large amounts of money on a short-term time
frame. They do not have the luxury of using resting stop-loss orders without risking
adverse slippage. They cannot be as nimble as the small speculator can-and herein
lies your edge.

• This brings us to the most important point. Initial stop loss orders are
essential! Each strategy in this book will have you entering a protective stop upon
being filled. Stops are necessary for your protection against worst-case scenarios.
(Remember, we are trading on probabilities only.) All it takes is getting sloppy
once, or experiencing the "frozen rabbit syndrome" in a bad trade, to undo the
efforts of the previous 20 trades. Placing initial protective stops must become a habit
that is never broken. As you will see, in most, if not all of the examples, your stops
will risk only a small amount of money.

Thanks Black Swan

I googled Street smarts and found t on amazon for $175.... Seems rather expensive.. but overall good book??

 

[Glenborrell]

As no professional are trading candlestick formations.

What are the pro's doing then? Are you a pro?

 

[Glenborrell]

As a suggestion, if you trade off signals generated every 4 hours, select the times which suit you the best. 4am, 8am, midday etc might work well for you, but occasionally these will intersect with events, e.g. MPC comes out at midday. In the long run, it won't make much difference, whichever starting point you choose.

Cheers Mean,

 

[Glenborrell]

if you drop down a tf you'll still see the swing, there's other problems associated with that but...

What you mean by this? See more noise?

Thanks

 

[Glenborrell]

Trade the price and levels IMO, not the candles.

That's what am attempting to do. I'm just doing it on the 4 hr tme frame.

 

[robster970]

I don't think Virtuos0 is trying to be cryptic. It doesn't matter who's chart it is or whether it's used by a prop or retail trader - they all show the same price movement. That's what he's trying to say.

Dropping down a TF helps make your entries/exits as tight as a gnat's chuff. You see the noise but you also see your entry/exit forming in detail. I decide what to do off a 1d but use 1h and 5m to time entries and exits. I think that's what BS is on about.

 

[Glenborrell]

Dropping down a TF helps make your entries/exits as tight as a gnat's chuff. You see the noise but you also see your entry/exit forming in detail. I decide what to do off a 1d but use 1h and 5m to time entries and exits. I think that's what BS is on about.

I appreciate what your saying and would like to be able to do that but my job does not allow it. In the evenings maybe but not during the day.

Cheers

 

[Rossini]

Thanks for the reply.

Would you mind elaborating a little? I've had quite a bit of success following this basic approach, but it has only been over a few months (so I don't think it means a great deal by any means) and I'd be grateful to hear your opinion.

If you have had success, then keep going dude. Don't listen to people who tell you that you can not trade in a particular way, if you can find an edge in candle patterns then that's great.

What does work for me might not work for you and visa versa. So if its working for you then I repeat, keep going and don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

And the difference betweens starting times of candles on a 4 hour chart is totally irrelevant if you consistently stick with that feed....

 

[Glenborrell]

If you have had success, then keep going dude. Don't listen to people who tell you that you can not trade in a particular way, if you can find an edge in candle patterns then that's great.

What does work for me might not work for you and visa versa. So if its working for you then I repeat, keep going and don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

And the difference betweens starting times of candles on a 4 hour chart is totally irrelevant if you consistently stick with that feed....

Rossini,

Thanks for the advice and encouragement.

Glen

 

[robster970]

I appreciate what your saying and would like to be able to do that but my job does not allow it. In the evenings maybe but not during the day.

Cheers

Maybe you should just only trade the evening sessions well. Well timed entries reduce your risk and have a significantly beneficial impact on your profitability. Better to do fewer very well than many leaking money through wider stops with no in trade mgmt. Cutting losers v.quickly is a crucial part of increased profitability too. If you have a hit rate of 35%, minimising the 65% of losers as much as possible profoundly changes your R:R and expectancy rather than just relying on stops to protect.

Alternatively set auto-entries and profit targets and fixed stop-losses during the day and actively manage trades at night.

Trade your own way, nobody elses. I think what most of the 'discretionary' traders on here have found over time is that there is only price movement, supply/demand, bias and sentiment to consider. Nothing else. Over time, you'll probably get to a point where less is more. The journey may have differed for all of us but we all pretty much arrive at the same destination.

Keep at it.

 

[Glenborrell]

Maybe you should just only trade the evening sessions well. Well timed entries reduce your risk and have a significantly beneficial impact on your profitability. Better to do fewer very well than many leaking money through wider stops with no in trade mgmt. Cutting losers v.quickly is a crucial part of increased profitability too. If you have a hit rate of 35%, minimising the 65% of losers as much as possible profoundly changes your R:R and expectancy rather than just relying on stops to protect.

Alternatively set auto-entries and profit targets and fixed stop-losses during the day and actively manage trades at night.

Trade your own way, nobody elses. I think what most of the 'discretionary' traders on here have found over time is that there is only price movement, supply/demand, bias and sentiment to consider. Nothing else. Over time, you'll probably get to a point where less is more. The journey may have differed for all of us but we all pretty much arrive at the same destination.

Keep at it.

Thanks again. good advice.

Currently trading in the evenings is difficult due to having a couple of young ones running aorund. Idealy i'd get home from work log on and then watch the charts for a few hours. i fully understand everything you are saying and it's all part of my approach. i mean i only traded 3 times this week gone. max risk on any one of the trades was 60 pips. other 2 were less. only risking 2% of my account per trade. i'm not trading big ££'s but i'm compounding the account.

I learnt most of what i trade now from trader dante and a little from j16. this was a few years back. i tried to trade it then but didn't make any money. i wasen't ready for these techniques and struggled. i didn't lose any either but kept giving profits back. So i took some time out. paid for a couple of systems (yes i did this), which i don't trade but somewhere in there it help my trading. mainly got my head sorted as that's the part that needed mastering. a big part of this was down to learning to set realistic targets and taking profit.

 

[Black Swan]

Glen, yes the book is a v. good read, a v. generous member of t2w sent me a copy, I'll pm him and see if it's ok for him to send it to you too if that's ok? Ref. different tfs, I look for swing, imo the 4hr represents the best visualisation, dropping down tfs can obviously often get you in at a better price earlier in that swing. However, and I make absolutely no apologies for this, I'm hard core TA and use a range of indicators such as fast/slow mas and the macd for entry. If I'm taking on 9 currency pairs and money out of the markets consistently there's no other way...obviously these readings alter on different tfs, which can cause initial indecision, but I've moved through that conflict some time ago...

 

[Glenborrell]

Glen, yes the book is a v. good read, a v. generous member of t2w sent me a copy, I'll pm him and see if it's ok for him to send it to you too if that's ok? Ref. different tfs, I look for swing, imo the 4hr represents the best visualisation, dropping down tfs can obviously often get you in at a better price earlier in that swing. However, and I make absolutely no apologies for this, I'm hard core TA and use a range of indicators such as fast/slow mas and the macd for entry. If I'm taking on 9 currency pairs and money out of the markets consistently there's no other way...obviously these readings alter on different tfs, which can cause initial indecision, but I've moved through that conflict some time ago...

Black Swan,

That would be fantastic! thanks in advance.

hey, and don't apologise for the way you trade. it sounds as if you make a living from this so you must be doing something right.

and i completely understand re the lower tf's, and getting better price entries. it's just not viable for me right now. in the future, maybe. but for now i need to continue to be profitable trading 4hr charts.