VantagePoint software

rizwanuk · Oct 7, 2005

Stockjunkie said:
Riza ,

When you say 1 yr chart , of what ? of the system's past results ? if so how is that a trial ? that would just be some past results on a chart . I could do that just as well in a different form.

I can't see how any averagely intelligent person would not see the " details of the system " , unless it was so complicated that one cannot even understand it . Then it is no surprise that these things don't work . How can the trader make money if he does NOT know how to operate his tools ( system ) ??

I find that concept bizzare . I full well know I understand my system 100% and I would expect anyone who used it to near do so as well.

You'll be surprised at how many dishonest people there who WILL use the system , win , copy it and then ask for a refund .

1 year historical chart of systems predicted moving average verses actual history of the market. Thats not a trial thats the minimum I want to see before I commit my money. If you can provide that it will be great. Please provide one year history of S&P, Eur/USD, Gold, copper and 10 year T bills.

System is a neural net and although you would broadly understand how it works (which is any way disclosed in Mandelson's book "Trend Forecasting") but you would not precisely know the program or the weights the neural network is using.

Dishonest people who will copy the system and ask for a refund will not last, this is a long term business and the most important thing is proper support and regular updates, you can buy vanatage point illegally if you were inclined to do so, but whats the use? You will not make money because you will not trust the system, you will never be sure if you are using the fully updated version and that you fully undertsand it.

sovett · Oct 7, 2005

Like any trading system VP will not be anyway 100% accurate. In fact I do not think it comes to be 80% accurate in its predictions. However it is not an out of the box money making system. You do have to put some effort into reading the figures. VP gives highs and lows for the next day but they mean nothing without the other indicators showing the correct setup for a buy or sell trade. I purchased last year and doubled my money. This year so far has not been quite so good and without the last couple of trades I would have been in negative territory. So have made 450 points in the last week. Now some people might call me stupid because I will not give up so easily on systems but that is just me.
If you want my opinion on VP it will make money in the long run but it will not make you rich. From experience buying the other additional modules besides the Dow, S&P and Euro/dollar currency are a bit of a waste of time unless you have very deep pockets.
I only trade the Dow and use the S&P module to verify my Dow trades. However VP is not exactly what I am looking for as I have traded it without emotion in a robotic way and because of the way the markets have been this year it has not been so good.

Stockjunkie · Oct 7, 2005

rizwanuk said:
1 year historical chart of systems predicted moving average verses actual history of the market. Thats not a trial thats the minimum I want to see before I commit my money. If you can provide that it will be great. Please provide one year history of S&P, Eur/USD, Gold, copper and 10 year T bills.

System is a neural net and although you would broadly understand how it works (which is any way disclosed in Mandelson's book "Trend Forecasting") but you would not precisely know the program or the weights the neural network is using.

Dishonest people who will copy the system and ask for a refund will not last, this is a long term business and the most important thing is proper support and regular updates, you can buy vanatage point illegally if you were inclined to do so, but whats the use? You will not make money because you will not trust the system, you will never be sure if you are using the fully updated version and that you fully undertsand it.

That's silly - post event charts don't mean a thing , they are all curve fitted to look good against whatever you want . I can provide proof on REAL RETURNS not some fantasy self projected nonsense .

Pardon my directness but with due respect , if you cannot grasp the difference between the 2 , then really you are asking for the charlatans to jump on you.

That's the general problem with automated sginal generator systems : the user does not know it well enough , and what you don't know , you cannot work .

I don't know how you argue this with considering I HAVE 6X RETURN ON CAPITAL with lousy SBs .

the last part I don't understand how that invalidates what I say about cheats .

If you PM , I can give further information about this whole subject .

rizwanuk · Oct 7, 2005

PM sent.

rizwanuk · Oct 8, 2005

For the sake of record Stockjunkie had nothing to prove or offer about Vantage point. Therefore, my comments on Vantage point remain intact.

Stockjunkie, it may be a better idea to start a new thread offering your paid services directly (if moderators permit) rather than this marketing tactic of making comments about things to lure people to your own services. If you however, continue to use this tactic it may be a good idea to disclose your conflict of interest upfront when making your comments. People should know that you are a vendor competing for their business.

toby123 · Oct 14, 2005

While working with my sales rep, I hinted that if we couldn't get the software working for me, I'd be asking for a refund. He told me there are no refunds.

I was only interested in trading the ETFs.

We worked together for several weeks, yet nothing worked. Finally, I told him I give up. At the same time, I also emailed the company, politely asking for a refund. The next day, the sales rep told me to simply return the software, no questions asked.

He insists others are making a ton of money and that I was probably just using the product incorrectly. That may be so, but the bottom line is it didn't work for me, and they were kind of enough to refund my money.

My two cents.

rizwanuk · Oct 14, 2005

Thanks for sharing your experience with us. Why dont you tell us more about your experience with the software. The good and bad of it? What works and what doesn't? Is it really 80% accurate in forcasting future?

What did not work for you?

houdani · Oct 15, 2005

rizwanuk said:
Thanks for sharing your experience with us. Why dont you tell us more about your experience with the software. The good and bad of it? What works and what doesn't? Is it really 80% accurate in forcasting future?

What did not work for you?

i can state categorically that vp has nothing approaching 80% accuracy on any of the market modules i used.it is helpful in deciding when to stay in a trade and when to get out and also it does give you a good idea as to when a market is overbought/sold.these things are relatively easy to attain without the need to part with two grand.taking the dow for instance,i can only imagine the horrors vantagepoint would have released upon its owner in the last couple of months following this market.it has no filter to determine between a whipsaw and a trend and as a result you get a lot of false breakouts.i spoke to their support desk about it and they told me the best plan was to wait a day or two after the lines cross to be sure of trend direction.what a brilliant plan! the whole point of buying the system was the fact it was a predictive indicator. the days high/low predictions are somewhere near on average about once a fortnight and all the system does to indicate if we are in a bull or bear market is to work out if the average of the last three trading days is higher or lower than the previous. you can spend months pouring over figures and charts with it like i did,when spending the time learning more about ta would be much better time spent.you live and learn!

rizwanuk · Oct 15, 2005

The same basic truth comes again and again there is no holy grail, just hard work and a lot of it.

I am now becoming more and more against spending more than $100 on trading education per book/course/system whatever. You can buy excellent books for this price and the rest is all using your own mind to find a path which suits you.

Atleast if you have wasted under $100 you do not regret much

hardyards · Oct 15, 2005

Ask yourself this one question. "Do the markets know what their H & L will be tommorrow?"

If you answer yes, then VP has a chance and so do you for that matter of picking the H & L
If you answer no, then VP has no chance better than a calculated estimate.

2George · Aug 22, 2006

That is an interesting link about VantagePoint. I was looking to add VP as a confirmer to change my day trading activities into trading over several days.
If it was 80% accurate all of the time then we would all be millionaires - that reason alone made me reassess. However, I have spoken to 2 long time users of VP (recommended by VP) and they both use it to good effect and I am to work with one of them on a project.
The theory of predictive charts linked in to other relative markets is sound so if anyone considering using VP alone needs a further confirmer I will be happy to assist.

ikeano · Sep 24, 2006

refund vpoint

Preacher-Man said:
Hi bluetipex...

Glad you also had a refund from them. As I've said before, I did not get on with the software, but I could not fault the integrity of the company in refunding my money after six months.

Sooo... would you care to share with us the name of the software that you have found to be successful..?? Please..??

Cheers mate,
Preach.

i have been using vp for some 6 months now and have found the softwarre to be unreliable to say the least .,both in backtesting and real time
when i asked for a refund i was told that i needed more training which i hesitantly agreed to.i
have since confirmed my initial analysis that this software is not 80 percent accurate or anywhere remotely close to this figure
again when i asked for a refund i was told
sorry buddy we dont do that
i would be grateful for advice on this and how i should now proceed as i have spent 5000 dollars
and feel it only fair that i get my money back,many thanksf

Preacher-Man · Sep 25, 2006

ikeano said:
i have been using vp for some 6 months now and have found the softwarre to be unreliable to say the least .,both in backtesting and real time
when i asked for a refund i was told that i needed more training which i hesitantly agreed to.i
have since confirmed my initial analysis that this software is not 80 percent accurate or anywhere remotely close to this figure
again when i asked for a refund i was told
sorry buddy we dont do that
i would be grateful for advice on this and how i should now proceed as i have spent 5000 dollars
and feel it only fair that i get my money back,many thanksf

G'day Ikeano,

I've replied to the PM you sent me.

All the best,
P-M

addisonb · Sep 27, 2006

ikeano said:
i have been using vp for some 6 months now and have found the softwarre to be unreliable to say the least .,both in backtesting and real time
when i asked for a refund i was told that i needed more training which i hesitantly agreed to.i
have since confirmed my initial analysis that this software is not 80 percent accurate or anywhere remotely close to this figure
again when i asked for a refund i was told
sorry buddy we dont do that
i would be grateful for advice on this and how i should now proceed as i have spent 5000 dollars
and feel it only fair that i get my money back,many thanksf

sorry to hear about your misfortune with vantagepoint. I have been using vp since 2003 with great success....and I know that it can be a very profitable tool. Would you mind sharing how you've been using it, and why you find it to be so unreliable??

Sophie22 · Oct 6, 2006

WHO did you talk to regarding your refund?

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Preacher-Man said:
Hi Guys (& Gals)
Hello! Can you tell me who you dealt with regarding the return of your software?? I have invested ALOT on money on mine and am not having the best of luck with it. I had the understanding that you could NOT return it under any circumstances but am happy to hear that a refund is possible. I have only had the software for 2 months but am not finding it is easy to use as I have trouble with entry points using their predicted highs and lows. If I know I can return it, I guess it makes me feel ALOT better!!

Thanks!

Having read a lot of negative comments on various boards relating to 'Market Technologies' (the producers of VantagePoint) I have chosen to speak in defence of the company (if not in defence of the product):

I bought VantagePoint six months ago and at the time, I resolved to give it a fair trial before commenting on its performance. During that time, I have seen some good signals and some bad, but overall I lost money trading it. HOWEVER, the fact that I lost money could be that it simply did not match my trading approach and personality.

I wanted to return the software and received some quality advice from two T2W members - SCHOE and MAX44 - who had both had previous dealings with the company. I contacted Market Technologies and explained the situation to them; I found them to be VERY helpful and accommodating, especially considering I had used the software for six months. Without hesitation, they authorised a full refund (even including the original shipping charge). So I can honestly say that, although I didn't get on with the software, the company behind it were very professional.

Many thanks to SCHOE and MAX44 for your advice!
God bless you and yours. :cheesy:

Sophie22 · Oct 6, 2006

Further confirmer on VP software

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2George said:
That is an interesting link about VantagePoint. I was looking to add VP as a confirmer to change my day trading activities into trading over several days.
If it was 80% accurate all of the time then we would all be millionaires - that reason alone made me reassess. However, I have spoken to 2 long time users of VP (recommended by VP) and they both use it to good effect and I am to work with one of them on a project.
The theory of predictive charts linked in to other relative markets is sound so if anyone considering using VP alone needs a further confirmer I will be happy to assist.

Can you tell me how to get a confirmer while using VP software? How were you able to get names of the 2 long time users of VP? I would LOVE to be able to contact them!

THanks

2George · Oct 6, 2006

Hi Sophie,
Second question - VP supplied me with 2 UK long time users. One was helpful initially and the other was not. The initial helpful guy said he traded weekly but after 2 months of contact with him he hasn't traded at all so my offer to him - originally accepted - has not been taken up in reality.
First question - The confirmers are my own chart specific indicators and I was to use this to confirm his VP proposed trades.
George

addisonb · Oct 6, 2006

2George said:
Hi Sophie,
Second question - VP supplied me with 2 UK long time users. One was helpful initially and the other was not. The initial helpful guy said he traded weekly but after 2 months of contact with him he hasn't traded at all so my offer to him - originally accepted - has not been taken up in reality.
First question - The confirmers are my own chart specific indicators and I was to use this to confirm his VP proposed trades.
George

George, I agree with your approach. It certainly helps if you use VP along with additional confirmation before entering a trade. Also, I have found VP to be great for swing trading!

Directional · Oct 6, 2006

ikeano said:
when i asked for a refund i was told
sorry buddy we dont do that

tell them if they dont give you a refund you'll force a chargeback through your credit card for "goods significantly not as described" (assuming you paid on your visa) and that you'll report them to the CFTC in america for deceptive marketing.

if they dont budge, do both.

SkiTrader · Oct 15, 2006

Sophie22 said:
undefinedundefined

Can you tell me how to get a confirmer while using VP software? How were you able to get names of the 2 long time users of VP? I would LOVE to be able to contact them!

THanks

Call Market Technologies and they will give you names of some people that have used the software successfully. I have had the software for a short period and have figured out some ways to make money from it. Like all tools, you have to do a fair amount of backtesting on the data to determine strategies that work. I have found the 80% claim to be pretty accurate in my backtesting. All that refers to is that 80% of the time the neural index is accurate (its prediction of whether the next 2 days closes moving average will be < or > the prior to 2 closes moving average). While the neural index is pretty accurate, that alone is not enough for a trading strategy.

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