Zero Spread WorldSpreads

Worldspreads was my favourite SB firm. I made a lot of money from them last year, all position trading, no scalping for a tick here and there like some on here like to do and then complain when they are put on referral. I did have problems with some executions now and then but they resolved them to my satisfaction. Their platform crashed as well, but not that often. The dealers that i spoke to seemed decent enough and I've been trading for close to 20 years, as a professional on the LIFFE floor when it was open outcry and now purely for my own acct.

I have some money in there, far less than £50k, so v confident about recovering it.

From what I can tell, any shortfall in monies is due to senior management , doesn't seem to be anything to do with the dealing room floor personnel.

RIP Worldspreads.
 
i still struggle with the DMA SB.

in principle; i will stay away 100 miles from SB; whether they are DMA or not. why would an SB do DMA?. Personally i haven't had any experience with FP Markets, IBet and ProSpreads; but the fact that they call themself Spread Betters; it's a signal for trouble.

I simply trade with brokers; who call themselves ECNs; meaning they don't do market making with client orders at all.

Take for example FXCM; who are an FX broker. I did trade with them for few months; and I did see horrible stuff happening to my orders. all orders goes through the dealing software; and they DEFINITELY sont send your order to the market. They probably hedge the net positions across many clients.

So my golden rule; stay away from SBs

That's fair enough, although we might be talking about different things. I think it's important to distinguish between futures traded on an actual exchange (which is all ibet offers, I think) and spot forex. Spot forex strikes me as decidedly dodgy, for obvious reaons.

Even if you are using a traditional bucket shop, I think it is better to use their futures-based things instead of their forex or cash indices, because at least then you have something to compare prices with.

As to why a broker would offer DMA within SB, I would imagine that it should be very profitable. All they are doing is acting like a regular broker and providing an SB wrapper (which I can't imagine costs them that much in the grand scheme of things). For that they charge a decent premium above the regular commission cost.

I don't know and don't want to sound like a cheerleader for this model; your concerns strike me as perfectly sensible and you may well be right for all I know. But it would be a good thing I think if this model was viable.
 
i still struggle with the DMA SB.

in principle; i will stay away 100 miles from SB; whether they are DMA or not. why would an SB do DMA?. Personally i haven't had any experience with FP Markets, IBet and ProSpreads; but the fact that they call themself Spread Betters; it's a signal for trouble.

I simply trade with brokers; who call themselves ECNs; meaning they don't do market making with client orders at all.

Take for example FXCM; who are an FX broker. I did trade with them for few months; and I did see horrible stuff happening to my orders. all orders goes through the dealing software; and they DEFINITELY sont send your order to the market. They probably hedge the net positions across many clients.

So my golden rule; stay away from SBs

ECN, DMA, STP...principally they are all the same thing! DMA stands for Direct Market Access, meaning the positions automatically go straight to the market. From what I understand, they automatically hedge every position, I know the fact they have the SB wrap automatically sends off alarm bells (trust me, I have dealt with enough of the other SB firms to know they are a bunch of crooks), but from my own personal experiences trading with FP for example, I have had no issues what so ever, with the position sizes that I hold, the fact they let me scalp till my heart is content, and with the recent profits I have made, tells me they are exactly what they say they are....
 
Just to clarify DMA would be used for exchange traded products (equites and derivatives)
ECN and STP can perhaps be viewed as more spot FX orientated (though not exclusively). ECNs were originally set up to facilitate trading outside of stock exchanges.

All spread bet companies work on a principal to principal basis
If yo are trading FX that means that the price you are being quoted will depend on the companies own book as well as the liquidity providers that they use.

Because spot FX is not conducted on an exchange it therfore stands to reason that competing 'brokers' will have different prices.

STP should ct out any broker interaction - you will know soon enough if you are getting good prices.
 
Just to clarify DMA would be used for exchange traded products (equites and derivatives)
ECN and STP can perhaps be viewed as more spot FX orientated (though not exclusively). ECNs were originally set up to facilitate trading outside of stock exchanges.

All spread bet companies work on a principal to principal basis
If yo are trading FX that means that the price you are being quoted will depend on the companies own book as well as the liquidity providers that they use.

Because spot FX is not conducted on an exchange it therfore stands to reason that competing 'brokers' will have different prices.

STP should ct out any broker interaction - you will know soon enough if you are getting good prices.

correct. my concern is i want my orders to go down the trading venues; not to the dealing desk.

DMA/ECN/STP are interchangeble. DMA means 'direct market access' and ECN means "Electronic Communication Network", STP means "Straight through processing".

my point is; when your broker starts dealing; it introduces "conflict of interest"; as they are the other side of your trade.

Sooner or later; your broker starts getting greedy; and meddling with your orders; and introducing stuff like "slowing down your processing", "requotes", "dealer referral".. all these stuff means the same thing.

Dealing desk wants to make profit from your losses. If you are profitable trader; you are not welcome.

The one global indicator i used to distinguish the goods from the uglies; is to ask the question; how does the broker make money?

if broker charges commissions per trade; that is very close to being genuine broker. It gets hairy when they start charging the spread; as that is a direct indicator of a dealing desk.

Brokers are meant to be middleman. When they start behaving like an exchange; stay away from them; by all means.
 
Take for example FXCM; who are an FX broker. I did trade with them for few months; and I did see horrible stuff happening to my orders. all orders goes through the dealing software; and they DEFINITELY dont send your order to the market. They probably hedge the net positions across many clients.

Hi alphadude,

This is not correct since FXCM uses NDD forex execution, also known as STP. Every forex order with FXCM is hedged immediately one for one with one of 10+ liquidity providers on our platform. FXCM is compensated by a pip mark-up added to the spread which essentially acts as a commission. This means our revenue is based on trading volume rather than client losses which can occur if your broker takes the opposite side of your trade via their dealing desk.

Dealing desk wants to make profit from your losses. If you are profitable trader; you are not welcome.

The one global indicator i used to distinguish the goods from the uglies; is to ask the question; how does the broker make money?

I couldn't agree with you more which is why we have warned about this for years now and describe step by step how NDD works in comparison to a dealing desk Forex Trading Execution | Currency Trading | FXCM .

Jason
 
Hi alphadude,

This is not correct since FXCM uses NDD forex execution, also known as STP. Every forex order with FXCM is hedged immediately one for one with one of 10+ liquidity providers on our platform. FXCM is compensated by a pip mark-up added to the spread which essentially acts as a commission. This means our revenue is based on trading volume rather than client losses which can occur if your broker takes the opposite side of your trade via their dealing desk.



I couldn't agree with you more which is why we have warned about this for years now and describe step by step how NDD works in comparison to a dealing desk Forex Trading Execution | Currency Trading | FXCM .

Jason

If you're making money on trading volume it would make sense to reduce your spreads, which are still too wide and probably the main reason why people stick with other SBs.
 
If you're making money on trading volume it would make sense to reduce your spreads, which are still too wide and probably the main reason why people stick with other SBs.

Hi Ross,

I know spreads are very important to you :). We aim to offer fair and competitive spreads for our clients, while also providing the best execution possible. If you see a 0-1 pip spread on your platform yet receive re-quotes when the market moves in your favor or always get the price you click on when you’re on the wrong side of the market, then the spread doesn’t mean much at all.

Worldspreads’ failure is an indication that they had a business model that was not sustainable. Spreads are something to consider, but so are customer support, trading platform, system reliability, resources, financial strength, etc. I would bet the 171,000 active accounts trading with FXCM Inc as of our last monthly operating metrics release take those other factors into consideration.

For high volume traders, FXCM does offer a discount on the spreads through our Active Trader Program.

Jason
 
mr fxcm

your spreads are far too high. Also the extra charge in your nightly rollover charge is far too high since besides the difference in currencies overnight bank rates you add on a percentage charge every night which is sneaky and not necessary since you claim your only profit is from the spreads.

secondly you are the opposite of the traders and the trades do not go into the market at all. You are market makers and mainly make money when clients loose. You can claim all you want that this is not true but it is easy to lie when no one can proove otherwise. If you would have asked mfglobal or worldspreads if they segregrate money they also lied that they did and proof since they are regulated but that did not stop them being dishonest and sorry to say the same is with fxcm. If you can show me a statement with currenex or the cme or the actual exchanges of trades being hedged that i can verify i would beleive you but i am prepared to put down £1000 now that you cannot prove this since you don't hedge but rely on 90% of people loosing money.

every body look at this link FXCM Fined $2 Million for Slippage Issues ? Clients Will Be Compensated - Business Insider where it says fxcm fined 2m for slippage. just proof you are low lifes like the rest of spread betters.

regards

a person who is in the spreadbetting industry

Well said.:clap:
 
mr fxcm

your spreads are far too high. Also the extra charge in your nightly rollover charge is far too high since besides the difference in currencies overnight bank rates you add on a percentage charge every night which is sneaky and not necessary since you claim your only profit is from the spreads.

secondly you are the opposite of the traders and the trades do not go into the market at all. You are market makers and mainly make money when clients loose. You can claim all you want that this is not true but it is easy to lie when no one can proove otherwise....

Dear competitor,

Seeing as you are a member of the spreadbet industry, I could understand that you are obviously biased towards the broker you are working for, and no surprise that our competitors would feel the need to attack us since we present an alternative execution model without re-quotes or dealer confirmation that traders have been moving to. It tells us that we are obviously doing something right.

Our No Dealing Desk forex execution presents a clear alternative to what traders traditionally had access to, and NDD eliminates the conflict of interest that exists between the broker and trader when the broker is making the market.

With NDD forex execution, 10+ liquidity providers stream prices to FXCM and our traders see the best bid/ask spread on the platform with FXCM's mark-up (or commission if you prefer). A dealing desk broker or market maker has complete control to set pricing regardless of what their bank relationships may be offering. When you place a trade with FXCM's NDD forex execution, the order is automatically offset one for one with one of the 10+ liquidity providers. A dealing desk broker or market maker is taking the opposite side of your transaction and can trade against clients if they choose not to offset the transaction. This presents the scenario where the broker can profit from traders losses or lose if the trader profits. The financial stability of the broker can depend on how well the broker's dealers are managing that risk. If the broker mismanages the risk, then the financial stability of the broker comes into question.

Regarding slippage, both positive and negative slippage is possible with FXCM, but slippage is determined by available liquidity from the 10+ liquidity providers and not by FXCM. A dealing desk broker or market maker decides the slippage you receive on any trades and can use re-quotes as a tool to enforce slippage. Just ask yourself this: Have you ever received a re-quote in your favor for a better price than what you requested? Often times, a dealing desk broker is more than happy to honor the price you click on when the market is moving against you. If the market moves in your favor, then it will likely result in a re-quote for the "correct price" due to latency in your internet connection or some other reason. So... price moves in your favor and the dealer keeps the positive slippage. Price moves against you and you get a re-quote. Whenever your broker is making the market, the traders interest of making money is not necessarily in the brokers interest if the trader's profit results in their loss. If you had a problem with FXCM's positive slippage practices in the offsetting transaction between FXCM and the liquidity provider before July 2010, are you as vehemently opposed to spreadbet brokers re-quoting as they do now instead of giving their traders the price they clicked on with positive slippage? I would find it a bit hypocritical if you do not apply the same standard to other brokers. Traders on FXCM's NDD forex execution receive both positive and negative slippage dependent on liquidity.

Our rollover amounts for both forex and CFDs are transparently located in the dealing rates window of our trading platform for anyone to compare, and we provide a monthly rollover calendar through DailyFX going months in advance so our traders are informed as to when there may be changes to daily rollover Rollover Calendar | Forex Education | DailyFX .

While forex transactions with FXCM are executed via NDD, FXCM does make the market for CFD transactions for oil, gold, silver, and stock indices. It was our original intention when launching CFDs a few years ago to make them NDD, but the transaction size requested by our traders was less than the minimum transaction size offered on exchange for the underlying product. It is also why we offer CFD trading in large liquid products where risk can be managed appropriately through the underlying, and not in hundreds of possibly illiquid cfd's that could result in a significant risk for both ourselves and our clients. There may come a point in the future when they will be NDD, and we look forward to that day. Regardless, our CFD products have no re-quotes or dealer confirmation. I know that spreads for some traders are the only factor they focus on when trading, but if that were the only factor everyone focused on then WorldSpreads probably would have had more clients than FXCM. Experienced traders know that the spread is but one important factor in addition to others. The spreads we charge are set so that we can offer the best execution possible without re-quotes or the games you may have to play when entering or exiting the market at other brokers.

Jason
 
...

Our No Dealing Desk forex execution presents a clear alternative to what traders traditionally had access to, and NDD eliminates the conflict of interest that exists between the broker and trader when the broker is making the market.
.....

hi Jason; in your NDD product; what is the spread (min,max,mean) for EURUSD in a typical day?

do you still mark client orders with extra pips on top?

The ideal fair brokerage; is that you don't change the prices on client orders; you charge commission instead.

conflict of interest remains if you choose to change client orders; or if you trade on the other side of their orders.
 
Hi Ross,

I know spreads are very important to you :). We aim to offer fair and competitive spreads for our clients, while also providing the best execution possible. If you see a 0-1 pip spread on your platform yet receive re-quotes when the market moves in your favor or always get the price you click on when you’re on the wrong side of the market, then the spread doesn’t mean much at all.

Worldspreads’ failure is an indication that they had a business model that was not sustainable. Spreads are something to consider, but so are customer support, trading platform, system reliability, resources, financial strength, etc. I would bet the 171,000 active accounts trading with FXCM Inc as of our last monthly operating metrics release take those other factors into consideration.

For high volume traders, FXCM does offer a discount on the spreads through our Active Trader Program.

Jason

Spreads are obviously important to everyone, whether you're the punter who pays it or the broker/SB that profits from it. If you're still 4pt on US30 then no-one will trade it, no matter how good the execution. Same with EU at typical 2.6pip, when you can get fixed 1p elsewhere. As it stands, unless the opposition slips everything by 3pt (which they don't) I think you'd have to be fairly mad to use FXCM for these two major markets. As the platform is one of the best, that's a shame.
 
Spreads are obviously important to everyone, whether you're the punter who pays it or the broker/SB that profits from it. If you're still 4pt on US30 then no-one will trade it, no matter how good the execution. Same with EU at typical 2.6pip, when you can get fixed 1p elsewhere. As it stands, unless the opposition slips everything by 3pt (which they don't) I think you'd have to be fairly mad to use FXCM for these two major markets. As the platform is one of the best, that's a shame.

City Index spread was 2.8 pip on EURUSD on Friday, but I suspect this was because of the NFP release.
 
hi Jason; in your NDD product; what is the spread (min,max,mean) for EURUSD in a typical day?

do you still mark client orders with extra pips on top?

The ideal fair brokerage; is that you don't change the prices on client orders; you charge commission instead.

conflict of interest remains if you choose to change client orders; or if you trade on the other side of their orders.

Hi Alphadude,

Here's a link to our typical spreads for all currency pairs.

There is no set max or min, since the spread on a given currency pair is based on the highest bid and lowest ask price offered from several competing liquidity providers. Having 10+ liquidity providers competing with pricing means that no one bank or liquidity provider can control the spread or market direction.

The spread for EUR/USD that you see on our retail platform includes our markup which does not change from one order to the next. We do not change the prices in any way other than adding this markup. This in effect works like a commission, since our profit is directly tied to the volume traded through the platform.

If you prefer to see the commission displayed separately, then you may be interested in our Active Trader platform for high volume clients, which does just that. In our No Dealing Desk forex execution model, we do not take the market risk on the other side of our clients order, but rather offset this risk immediately with our liquidity providers. You can click here to learn more about how it’s done.

Jason
 
Hi Alphadude,

Here's a link to our typical spreads for all currency pairs.

There is no set max or min, since the spread on a given currency pair is based on the highest bid and lowest ask price offered from several competing liquidity providers. Having 10+ liquidity providers competing with pricing means that no one bank or liquidity provider can control the spread or market direction.

The spread for EUR/USD that you see on our retail platform includes our markup which does not change from one order to the next. We do not change the prices in any way other than adding this markup. This in effect works like a commission, since our profit is directly tied to the volume traded through the platform.

If you prefer to see the commission displayed separately, then you may be interested in our Active Trader platform for high volume clients, which does just that. In our No Dealing Desk forex execution model, we do not take the market risk on the other side of our clients order, but rather offset this risk immediately with our liquidity providers. You can click here to learn more about how it’s done.

Jason

What is the minimum spread on Eurusd in fhe active trader platform?
I currently trade wigh IB and the min spread is 0.5 pips
 
I'd rather trade FX futures EUR/USD (1 spread + 0.5 commission), the FXCM markup is high.
 
I'd rather trade FX futures EUR/USD (1 spread + 0.5 commission), the FXCM markup is high.

even that is still high cost.

with IB; the spread is 0.5 pip + 0.2 pip commission per direction. Total = 0.7 pip to cross the spread.

It gets better when you trade the crosses with IB. The spread is much narrower compared to other brokers.

It's hard to find these stats from brokers; unless you open the account and find out for yourself.

I prefer brokers who charge me commission; and don't mark up the spread.
 
Hi Alphadude,

Since FXCM’s Active Trader platform uses No Dealing Desk forex execution, there is no set minimum on the spread. To see the live spreads, you can click here for a free demo or contact an Active Trader specialist.

Jason

Just tested the demo; and i observed the EURUSD spreads of both FXCM and IB at this point of time.

- FXCM: spread fluctuates between 0.8 and 1.5pips; but mostly rests on 1.0 pip.
- IB: spread fluctuates between 0.5 and 1.0pip; but mostly rests on 0.5 pip.

Conclusions:
- FXCM Active Trader Account has lower cost than normal FXCM retail account.
- Total transaction cost of IB (spread + commission); is still lower than FXCM Active Trader (spread)
 
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