Would you say $6 RT is a good rate?

[pboyles]

It's not SO hard, but $750 is tight. Your reasoning shows it can be done IF it works out that way. If you can slowly edge it over $1000, but keep trading 1 contract until you're at $2000 you will be okay - but you may have to top up if you lose your first few trades. Just give it a go I guess. I started with $1200 and reached $1500 in just over a week, where it got easier and I could trade more comfortably - but it was very careful and slow going at first. You're right, it is possible, but is it probable?

P.s. $6 is terrible, as many have said. I get $4.80 on Global, but no monthly fees. Getting too much slippage and missing good trades though - thinking of going to Infinity.

Slippage on the e mini S&P? On limit orders or when you hit Market? I've yet to have a single tick slippage on it using limit orders with global.

 

[MarketMoverTrader]

Slippage on the e mini S&P? On limit orders or when you hit Market? I've yet to have a single tick slippage on it using limit orders with global.

Both types, but market orders more. I do trading at times of high volitility, where it moves more than 2 points in a second.

 

[Ross Spur]

Both types, but market orders more. I do trading at times of high volitility, where it moves more than 2 points in a second.

Is that the broker's fault?

 

[MarketMoverTrader]

Is that the broker's fault?

In a way. This is how I understand how it works, excuse my not-so-technically-correct explanation: Orders with Global Futures sit on an external server, becasue they are underwritten by RSG. But with Infinity, the orders go directly and sit on the CME servers. So where I get 1 or more points of slippage (even though I limit my slippage, so I won't get into these trades, which is the problem), my friend trading the same instance with Infinity will get filled with 2 tics slippage max.

 

[timsk]

Both types, but market orders more. I do trading at times of high volitility, where it moves more than 2 points in a second.

Hi MMT,
Either I'm misunderstanding you - or you don't understand the difference between market orders and limit orders. Apologies in advance if it's the former. Slippage is not possible with limit orders as the price you buy at is 'limited' to the price you set or lower. If you're selling, the price you sell at is 'limited' to the price you set or higher. So, the only slippage that can occur with limit orders is in your favour so that you buy cheaper than the price you set or sell for more. In this regard, they never work against you, regardless of your broker. Their downside is that - unlike market orders - you may not always be filled - even when price hits the price you specify. However, if price moves past your limit order, it will be triggered and you will be filled.
Tim.

 

[MarketMoverTrader]

Hi MMT,
Either I'm misunderstanding you - or you don't understand the difference between market orders and limit orders. Apologies in advance if it's the former. Slippage is not possible with limit orders as the price you buy at is 'limited' to the price you set or lower. If you're selling, the price you sell at is 'limited' to the price you set or higher. So, the only slippage that can occur with limit orders is in your favour so that you buy cheaper than the price you set or sell for more. In this regard, they never work against you, regardless of your broker. Their downside is that - unlike market orders - you may not always be filled - even when price hits the price you specify. However, if price moves past your limit order, it will be triggered and you will be filled.
Tim.

Sorry - I read your reply and wrote that without much sleep I think. My bad. Limit orders are not a problem, Market orders can be if I don't limit my allowable slippage in the broker's software. I limit my slippage to a maximum of 3 tics. So if I don't get flled at my price or 3 tics after then I don't get filled, which happens too often with Global Futures at times of fast price movement.

 

[pboyles]

Which platform are you using? GSTrader has join bid/join ask buttons, I've never used them but wouldn't that eliminate the problems? Also you could still just use the price ladder, that's what I do when trading the news. Maybe I miss a few chances but I never see any slippage.

 

[MarketMoverTrader]

Which platform are you using? GSTrader has join bid/join ask buttons, I've never used them but wouldn't that eliminate the problems? Also you could still just use the price ladder, that's what I do when trading the news. Maybe I miss a few chances but I never see any slippage.

Here's a screenshot of some ADP data I tried to trade. My pre-placed market order got 2 tics of slippage (my set limit then), but never was filled. You see the little blue tracer line in the middle of the 7:15 candle? I would have made a nice 2 points on this announcement if my order was filled. Money down the drain, in a way. The candle probably shot up within a second or 2. I don't see how using the trading DOM/ladder would stop the problem - it hasn't for me. It's just places the orders with the RSG server in the same manner. I've never used the bid/join ask buttons either.

 

[sopodo]

Here's a screenshot of some ADP data I tried to trade. My pre-placed market order got 2 tics of slippage (my set limit then), but never was filled. You see the little blue tracer line in the middle of the 7:15 candle? I would have made a nice 2 points on this announcement if my order was filled. Money down the drain, in a way. The candle probably shot up within a second or 2. I don't see how using the trading DOM/ladder would stop the problem - it hasn't for me. It's just places the orders with the RSG server in the same manner. I've never used the bid/join ask buttons either.

Many thanks for your replies to this thread and some of my other threads. Very much appreciated.

Can you tell me please, what is ADP data? That software your using for real time news where can I get it? I like the look of it.

So your with global futures and your paying a $4.80 round trip commission all in with no monthly fee, and you started with $1200. Which platform are you using?

The thing is I contacted global futures and they want $50 per month for both global strategy trader lite or strategy runner lite. As well as $6 round turn commission all in. They will allow me to setup an account with less than a $1000. Would you say this is a good deal?

From your posts, it seems that you are placing market orders for both the buy and sell side and trading in extreme volatility periods where the tick moves 2 points. You must be trading mornings and in power hour is that right?

I've only been on a simulator so far and been on during the full market hours every day and have never seen the market move more than a few ticks at 1 time. I have seen surges where it can shoot like 2 or even 5 points but they only ever move for a split second like that and then get back within a split second to just 1 tick price change. So how is it, the market moves so much and at what times are you are trading? Do simulators not show these big moves accurately?

When you say you make 2 point profits but get 2 tick slippage, do you mean you buy at x amount and then look to make 2 point profits, using say a trailing stop market order? but then you never quite get 2 point profits and come out a 6 tick profits losing the 2 ticks in slippage, is that what your saying?

A lot of questions I know

Many thanks in advance

 

[sopodo]

Hi MMT,
Either I'm misunderstanding you - or you don't understand the difference between market orders and limit orders. Apologies in advance if it's the former. Slippage is not possible with limit orders as the price you buy at is 'limited' to the price you set or lower. If you're selling, the price you sell at is 'limited' to the price you set or higher. So, the only slippage that can occur with limit orders is in your favour so that you buy cheaper than the price you set or sell for more. In this regard, they never work against you, regardless of your broker. Their downside is that - unlike market orders - you may not always be filled - even when price hits the price you specify. However, if price moves past your limit order, it will be triggered and you will be filled.
Tim.

Tim,

Can I ask, apart from market orders always getting filled slippage as well on a market order can work in your favor and against your favor am I correct? But limit orders can only have slippage in your favor?

One other thing, should you place market orders or is it better to use limit orders. My problem in simulation is that I don't get filled so often on limit orders so I place a market order. But then receive slippage, but not that much, like 1 or 2 ticks. I suppose when it comes to choosing which order to use you just do it based on how the market is moving, if it's slow moving use a market order and fast moving use a limit order as there's more chance your order limit will be touched. correct?

So what would be the best times to trade in a trading day market orders?

Many thanks in advance

 

[MarketMoverTrader]

Many thanks for your replies to this thread and some of my other threads. Very much appreciated.

Can you tell me please, what is ADP data? That software your using for real time news where can I get it? I like the look of it.

So your with global futures and your paying a $4.80 round trip commission all in with no monthly fee, and you started with $1200. Which platform are you using?

The thing is I contacted global futures and they want $50 per month for both global strategy trader lite or strategy runner lite. As well as $6 round turn commission all in. They will allow me to setup an account with less than a $1000. Would you say this is a good deal?

From your posts, it seems that you are placing market orders for both the buy and sell side and trading in extreme volatility periods where the tick moves 2 points. You must be trading mornings and in power hour is that right?

I've only been on a simulator so far and been on during the full market hours every day and have never seen the market move more than a few ticks at 1 time. I have seen surges where it can shoot like 2 or even 5 points but they only ever move for a split second like that and then get back within a split second to just 1 tick price change. So how is it, the market moves so much and at what times are you are trading? Do simulators not show these big moves accurately?

When you say you make 2 point profits but get 2 tick slippage, do you mean you buy at x amount and then look to make 2 point profits, using say a trailing stop market order? but then you never quite get 2 point profits and come out a 6 tick profits losing the 2 ticks in slippage, is that what your saying?

A lot of questions I know

Many thanks in advance

I get the news server with the particular trading system I use. I write about it on my blog www.marketmovertrader.net - click on 'What is Market Mover Trading' to see what they give their members.

I think $6 commission for a round trip is high. I pay $4.80 using Global Futures' GSTrader platform, and I don't pay any monthly $50 fee, becasue they have waivered monthly fees for people using the Market Mover Trader system. $1000 is about the lowest allowable account opening balance you will find, but Global Futures require that your current income and assets are good enough to allow you to open an acount - a bit like when you apply for a loan.

I trade announcements, with both market and limit orders according to my strategy. Announcements occour usually at either 6:30 or 8:00am MDT - 1:30 or 3:00pm GMT. I don't trade outside of announcements, except for a bit of experimental stuff recently.
At these announcement times the market can jump a few points (I've seen up to 20 points before) in a single candle, often in just one or 2 seconds. I capture that movement for profit. It moves like that because the announcement either comes in much better or worse than the expected consensus. Simulators smetimes show them a little differently to the live trading platform, but not much.

With regards to slippage, in the image I posted for example, I had a pre-determined long entry point, and I limited my slippage to 2 tics with the MMT software that's built into Global's platform. In other words, if the market moved too fast to fill my order at my price, or within 2 tics of my price, then I would not get into the trade, instead of incurring so much slippage that I get filled long at the top of the price movement - which of course would be disaster. But if I had not had slippage I would have been bought in at the bottom of the movement and could have gotten 2 points profit on that particular example.

I hope that answers your questions. If not, please ask for further clarity.

 

[timsk]

Tim,

Can I ask, apart from market orders always getting filled slippage as well on a market order can work in your favor and against your favor am I correct? But limit orders can only have slippage in your favor?

One other thing, should you place market orders or is it better to use limit orders. My problem in simulation is that I don't get filled so often on limit orders so I place a market order. But then receive slippage, but not that much, like 1 or 2 ticks. I suppose when it comes to choosing which order to use you just do it based on how the market is moving, if it's slow moving use a market order and fast moving use a limit order as there's more chance your order limit will be touched. correct?

So what would be the best times to trade in a trading day market orders?

Many thanks in advance

Hi sop',
I've just updated this FAQ - written pretty much with you in mind! Hopefully, it answers your questions pretty comprehensively. Let me know if anything is unclear or if further explanation is required.
What's the difference between Stop Loss and Limit orders?
Cheers,
Tim.

 

[BIBIqqq]

I think it is too much, it should be lower than 4.

do you think that I am right.