How about speed and the curves? There was a crash in Croydon the other week. I'm not crowing because Spain has its share of those, too, probably more, especially on high speed trains. Two deckers, though? That would be a challenge, especially with a narrower gauge.
How about speed and the curves? There was a crash in Croydon the other week. I'm not crowing because Spain has its share of those, too, probably more, especially on high speed trains. Two deckers, though? That would be a challenge, especially with a narrower gauge.
Yeah which is why I think it would require wider tracks.
sminicooper
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It's not actually the width of the track that's the problem – though a wider track can afford more stability. E.g. the USA have the same track gauge as we do, but their loading gauge i.e. the overall size of the train in width and height is much larger than ours – as are the continental railways. And of course it's the height, that you need to make double-deckers. The only railway main line in this country that was built to continental loading gauge standard was the now defunct and largely ripped up Great Central; and that was a part-realised Victorian vision to build a railway line through a Channel tunnel and link up to the continental systems. (This was of course, a route that could have been largely used by HS2 but previous generations of politicians in their wisdom sold it off in small chunks rather than keeping it for possible future use).
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Talks today aimed at ending the dispute seem to have broken down - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-38333159.
But at least there's the possibility of further talks - ASLEF say the door's always open.......
But at least there's the possibility of further talks - ASLEF say the door's always open.......
Atilla
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sminicooper
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I hadn't realised that Southern Railway is set up differently from the rest of the UK railway system. Could this have anything to do with the current industrial shenanigans ?
"Most people are unaware that Southern Rail no longer really exists. It did, between 2001 and July 2015, but it was then taken over by a merged reorganisation, including Thameslink and Great Northern, run by Govia Thameslink Railway but retaining old branding.
This body isn’t a franchise, though, and it doesn’t run the railways like South West Trains, Virgin East Coast or indeed any of the other lines. Calling it private is like calling Tfl’s bus system private—true in a sense but misleading. Like Tfl with buses, Southern doesn’t set schedules, prices or pay and conditions, and the money it collects it gives directly to the Department for Transport, which pays it a fee for running the line. Quite how this went unnoticed by everyone, including me, is unknown, because it’s surely a crucial cause of the seemingly unending industrial action on the line.
Striking is simply more attractive when you’re employed by the government. Look back to the 1970s: massive government control over the economy turns strikes into a political issue, not just a question of pay and conditions. The government finds it harder to face down strikers than private firms. This is one reason why we regularly lost more than 25m days to strikes in a year during the 1970s, versus less than a million for most years since 1990."
Full story here: https://capx.co/the-eastern-solution-to-the-southern-rail-problem/
"Most people are unaware that Southern Rail no longer really exists. It did, between 2001 and July 2015, but it was then taken over by a merged reorganisation, including Thameslink and Great Northern, run by Govia Thameslink Railway but retaining old branding.
This body isn’t a franchise, though, and it doesn’t run the railways like South West Trains, Virgin East Coast or indeed any of the other lines. Calling it private is like calling Tfl’s bus system private—true in a sense but misleading. Like Tfl with buses, Southern doesn’t set schedules, prices or pay and conditions, and the money it collects it gives directly to the Department for Transport, which pays it a fee for running the line. Quite how this went unnoticed by everyone, including me, is unknown, because it’s surely a crucial cause of the seemingly unending industrial action on the line.
Striking is simply more attractive when you’re employed by the government. Look back to the 1970s: massive government control over the economy turns strikes into a political issue, not just a question of pay and conditions. The government finds it harder to face down strikers than private firms. This is one reason why we regularly lost more than 25m days to strikes in a year during the 1970s, versus less than a million for most years since 1990."
Full story here: https://capx.co/the-eastern-solution-to-the-southern-rail-problem/
Pat494
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Looks to me that Southern are wasting a great PR opportunity with their penny pinching attitude.
Can the driver really be expected to deal with the 1001 problems that crop up daily, while driving the train ? Of course not. Late night revellers might be causing havoc 3 carriages back. Should the driver stop the train and go and have a look ? Of course not. What about the elderly that get stuck half in and half out ?
Come on Southern, money is not the only consideration surely. And if it is then pay the bosses less. They are usually stuck behind a big desk doing nothing useful.
Can the driver really be expected to deal with the 1001 problems that crop up daily, while driving the train ? Of course not. Late night revellers might be causing havoc 3 carriages back. Should the driver stop the train and go and have a look ? Of course not. What about the elderly that get stuck half in and half out ?
Come on Southern, money is not the only consideration surely. And if it is then pay the bosses less. They are usually stuck behind a big desk doing nothing useful.
sminicooper
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They do on other lines (since the 1980s on the Bedford-St Pancras line) – and they're not taking the guards off the trains anyway, they're keeping them there precisely to help passengers. This strike is political and has been handled badly by Southern.
Neither guards/conductors nor Transport Police have to be allocated to a specific train, they can ride them on a sporadic or programmed basis, or as needed. This might even make lawbreakers a little less secure, knowing they're the ones likely to get ambushed.
But that's not denying the government seem to have set this up for a fight from early on as a trial of strength or some such.
How frequent are the trains? As I mentioned earlier ours is 6 minutes and there are security police with dogs who can move up and down the line fairly easily. I don't think that a guard can do much good, TBH. Moving up and down a crowded train and, also having to be available at station stops---I don't know how easy all that would be. The carriages have SOS points, where passengers can talk to someone, either the driver or the terminal.
My pass got stuck inside a machine, once, at an unmanned station. I rang SOS and they had a man with a toolbox into the machine very quickly.
One man trains are not, or shouldn't be (most of you think that the management is lousy on Southern) without quick, outside assistance being close at hand. Lets face it, How much assistance do you think that a train guard would be when dealing with a violence problem?
Seems to me that the line needs to be taken over by another outfit. The money is not being spent properly.
To make you feel happier, our train service is not without problems. I don't use them much, not being a commuter, but regular users have their moans.
Atilla
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I often find teenagers on the continent a different breed to our 13-14-15 year olds. Lancing used to be a particularly bad spot with kids hanging outside causing mischief and bullying other kids whilst being unrully to grown ups with feet on seats and throwing rubbish around. Swearing and loud noise is the least of the our problem.
I had to help out a guard once and know what you mean if they were any older things may well have gotten out of hand.
We also have problem with first class travel. People sit on any seat they find and even argue with the guards about it. I travelled first class once for a month and realised it wasn't worth the price. Same seats and be with the same sh1ts walking up and down first class cabins and sometimes sitting where they should not. Gatwick trains have wider grey seats that have small tilts and that's about it. You can only get on them at Brighton so it means changing.
Ticket machines not very user friendly here and don't always give cheapest or correct ticket. Guards issue tickets on trains too. They help with disabled passengers. I do think there presence is reassuring and a good source of help to passengers. Opening the doors and checking everyone is abroad and not rushing about to leap on I do think helps reduce accidents.
Life shouldn't be always about making money for the guys at the top. It should be about good decent quality of service where we all help each other.
Our railways are expensive as they are adn I really don't think productivity is going to improve by taking them off. Drivers also have said the numerous cameras and vdu displays are not as good as having a pair of eyes to actually look up and down platforms. Sometimes there are 10 displays to look at especially around curvy platforms.
I simply have no faith in management or this government to deliver on railways. They are inept, have wrong objectives and using this dispute as a political tool. Lack of infrastructure and investment is clear imo. Every year we are told prices have to go up so they can invest but don't see improvements.
Apparently, they are looking at having less seats and having stand up / lean to type seats. This is expected to get more people on to trains and speed up getting on and off times.
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/tran...arriage-but-more-standing-space-a3255236.html
I had to help out a guard once and know what you mean if they were any older things may well have gotten out of hand.
We also have problem with first class travel. People sit on any seat they find and even argue with the guards about it. I travelled first class once for a month and realised it wasn't worth the price. Same seats and be with the same sh1ts walking up and down first class cabins and sometimes sitting where they should not. Gatwick trains have wider grey seats that have small tilts and that's about it. You can only get on them at Brighton so it means changing.
Ticket machines not very user friendly here and don't always give cheapest or correct ticket. Guards issue tickets on trains too. They help with disabled passengers. I do think there presence is reassuring and a good source of help to passengers. Opening the doors and checking everyone is abroad and not rushing about to leap on I do think helps reduce accidents.
Life shouldn't be always about making money for the guys at the top. It should be about good decent quality of service where we all help each other.
Our railways are expensive as they are adn I really don't think productivity is going to improve by taking them off. Drivers also have said the numerous cameras and vdu displays are not as good as having a pair of eyes to actually look up and down platforms. Sometimes there are 10 displays to look at especially around curvy platforms.
I simply have no faith in management or this government to deliver on railways. They are inept, have wrong objectives and using this dispute as a political tool. Lack of infrastructure and investment is clear imo. Every year we are told prices have to go up so they can invest but don't see improvements.
Apparently, they are looking at having less seats and having stand up / lean to type seats. This is expected to get more people on to trains and speed up getting on and off times.
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/tran...arriage-but-more-standing-space-a3255236.html
Pat494
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Just having a look at what the top hog at Southern earns - £800K and I see the idiotic Board are giving the s0d a pay rise !! It beggars belief what these neo Fascist people are doing.
http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/...ality-falls-Network-Rail-chief-gets-800k.html
http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/...ality-falls-Network-Rail-chief-gets-800k.html
I should put things in perspective. Barcelona and the stations are nowhere near as crowded as London and outside. The trajectories are shorter, as a consequence, which is, always, a boon to timekeeping. Still, a lot of people travel to and from work every day and Castelldefels, Sitges, Sabadell trains are always packed at rush times.
However, surely platform guards are all that is needed to watch doors and give the all clear to drivers? On busy stations there is a guard positioned, one for each carriage. A train guard cannot do that.
Our schoolkids are quite well mannered. Certainly, no fighting but, yes, feet on seats. Seems to be a generation thing. Can't see the advantage, myself. I'm quite happy with my feet on the floor. Grafitti is another problem. A shame because the trains are provided looking nice. The new ones have plastic seats which is the fault of the public, for not taking care of what they had.. Another foible of the young is sitting on the floor, in the way of the doors. The company have had to put up a notice, forbidding it but kids are rebellious brutes!
However, surely platform guards are all that is needed to watch doors and give the all clear to drivers? On busy stations there is a guard positioned, one for each carriage. A train guard cannot do that.
Our schoolkids are quite well mannered. Certainly, no fighting but, yes, feet on seats. Seems to be a generation thing. Can't see the advantage, myself. I'm quite happy with my feet on the floor. Grafitti is another problem. A shame because the trains are provided looking nice. The new ones have plastic seats which is the fault of the public, for not taking care of what they had.. Another foible of the young is sitting on the floor, in the way of the doors. The company have had to put up a notice, forbidding it but kids are rebellious brutes!
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