Why is it difficult to be consistent ?

I apologise, I can't start a new thread, so this is a test to see if I can actually post,... please ignore this post! :)

Edit: Does anyone know why I can't start a new thread? Do you have to have put up a certain number of posts before it will allow you to start a thread? Thanks :)
 
meanreversion said:
You sad little person.
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The queer traders always miss the best trades thinking the following

Price has gone too far, it is now too expensive to buy
Price is going to get weaker
place limit orders cause the market will come and fill you
The set up has not materialised (set set ups appear all the time for profit, but they don't)
Set up is not quite there

and hundreds of other reasons .These losers always miss many trades due to their thinking.
 
oildaytrader said:
The queer traders always miss the best trades thinking the following

Price has gone too far, it is now too expensive to buy
Price is going to get weaker
place limit orders cause the market will come and fill you
The set up has not materialised (set set ups appear all the time for profit, but they don't)
Set up is not quite there

and hundreds of other reasons .These losers always miss many trades due to their thinking.
Click to expand...

You are obviously speaking from experience
 
Would be really grateful if anyone knows the answer as to why I can post on threads, but not start one. Sorry for being off topic within this thread. Thank you :)
 
Black Swan said:
when coaching sports I used to often state "don't think just do..." I often visualise that phrase in relation to trading...

It's easy to rip the phrase to bits if mis-translated but in a football context I explained it in the following way;

As a competent player, competing at a very high standard of junior or amateur football, you've reached a certain level of competence and your dedication/practice has made permanent (hard-wired) some of the attributes necessary for you to perfom..Therefore you should instinctively rely on your abilities and knowledge to make the right decisions, if you hesitate the moment may simply go...
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The difference between the two is the fact that you are guiding them as a coach. With your ongoing instruction you are slowly creating an imprint into the subconscious for them to follow. The whole process then becomes intuitive .

The problem with trading is that the bad habits are the only thing that have been ingrained whilst a trader sits in front of the screen by himself. To get to the same high level in trading requires some form of thinking. You did it as a coach so they dont have to do as much. Traders also have to do it.

The concept/process has to develop somewhere. You cannot just folow your instincts and hope to be profitable in trading.
 
Goldmansucks said:
The difference between the two is the fact that you are guiding them as a coach. With your ongoing instruction you are slowly creating an imprint into the subconscious for them to follow. The whole process then becomes intuitive .

The problem with trading is that the bad habits are the only thing that have been ingrained whilst a trader sits in front of the screen by himself. To get to the same high level in trading requires some form of thinking. You did it as a coach so they dont have to do as much. Traders also have to do it.

The concept/process has to develop somewhere. You cannot just folow your instincts and hope to be profitable in trading.
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hmm..you may have slightly missed the point but have made some good ones in response. Again, using the footy analogy, when training young kids there is a model (iirc) called the 4 corners of development; kids can vary in ability using un/conscious in/competent, most likely they're competent without the consciousness, or conscious without the competence the latter 2 are the most likely with kids as they're developing; they know what they should do but the ability or more likely the physicality just isn't there, or they have the instinct but don't really understand why they're doing it the right way...yet..

As traders it is, as you point out, slightly different; we need to arrive at a sense of unconscious competence were the hard-wiring becomes so ingrained that we don't have to trade by instinct...we are no longer conscious of the actions we take in order to hopefully extract money from the market...Our signals trigger and we act without doubt or hesitancy, our practice has made the act of excellent trading discipline permanent and fearless. Arriving at that elevated state of (trading) mind is perhaps the real *Holy Grail* for us retail traders?
 
I recently read "Your 15th club" by Bob Rotella (only 14 clubs allowed in a golf bag). He's a psychologist, works with Harrington .. his claim is similar to mentioned by B.S. here, that you drip feed your subconscious with negative thoughts (in golf this is).. your subconscious then "helps" you to play the crap golf you REALLY want to play, irrespective of what your conscious brain is saying.

This is along the lines of Seykota's quote "you always get what you want from the market".

So in summary, it would seem alteration of the subconscious is required, maybe it's time for me to call Paul McKenna ..
 
meanreversion said:
I recently read "Your 15th club" by Bob Rotella (only 14 clubs allowed in a golf bag). He's a psychologist, works with Harrington .. his claim is similar to mentioned by B.S. here, that you drip feed your subconscious with negative thoughts (in golf this is).. your subconscious then "helps" you to play the crap golf you REALLY want to play, irrespective of what your conscious brain is saying.

This is along the lines of Seykota's quote "you always get what you want from the market".

So in summary, it would seem alteration of the subconscious is required, maybe it's time for me to call Paul McKenna ..
Click to expand...

Good points well made, a couple of elite sportsmen I know have actually *made it* as traders, they already had 2 edges though; the winners mental edge and enough disposable cash to not get freaked out by a string of losses, particularly as they feel superior to their mates/fellow pros who *gamble* on the gee-gees or sports results..

Although we could use the analogy of Berbatov, who has simply plugged away at his craft, kept his head down and his game has turned around, or Rooney taking ten shots, 7 on target only 2 are goals, individual sports are far more relevant to trading I reckon; golf and tennis benig the big two. The parallels are uncanny...

How many elite tennis pros don't give up when they're 2 sets down? Us as traders need to learn from that... golfers; every day is different on the same course etc...etc..and the olf Trevino/Gary Player quote; "The harder I practice the luckier I get.."
 
City of Steel said:
I apologise, I can't start a new thread, so this is a test to see if I can actually post,... please ignore this post! :)

Edit: Does anyone know why I can't start a new thread? Do you have to have put up a certain number of posts before it will allow you to start a thread? Thanks :)
Click to expand...

i'm sending you pm shortly to explain why you can't start threads
 
honestly, consistency is a very broad statement. i could follow my rules and enter\manage trades like a robot but does that make me consistent? no it doesn't because trading involves more than just following the rules or working trades to perfection. The common assumption amongst studying traders is that consistency is almost machine like actions over-laying a winning system. this isn't the case and if it were then trading would be a lot easier to learn.

Consistency in my experience is something that is attained through years of market experience. when you have made all the mistakes, when you have settled on methods and mastered your tools, when you learn when to trade and when not, when your trade decisions occur through discretion, when you manage your account as though it were second nature, when you lose the thrill and excitement of the trade and see it as work, when you find your confidence in your skills and your results exhibit that fact... then you can call yourself consistent.
 
forker said:
honestly, consistency is a very broad statement. i could follow my rules and enter\manage trades like a robot but does that make me consistent? no it doesn't because trading involves more than just following the rules or working trades to perfection. The common assumption amongst studying traders is that consistency is almost machine like actions over-laying a winning system. this isn't the case and if it were then trading would be a lot easier to learn.

Consistency in my experience is something that is attained through years of market experience. when you have made all the mistakes, when you have settled on methods and mastered your tools, when you learn when to trade and when not, when your trade decisions occur through discretion, when you manage your account as though it were second nature, when you lose the thrill and excitement of the trade and see it as work, when you find your confidence in your skills and your results exhibit that fact... then you can call yourself consistent.
Click to expand...

:cool:
 
Goldmansucks said:
I have read on many threads,forums and books about consistency. I would like to discuss with other traders why this is such a big issue and what one can do to improve it. Personally I put consistency down to two things:

1./ Technical knowledge and skills - I think this is the most important, above all else.
2./ My own mindmap of how I analyse and execute my trades.

There are probably a few more factors that I may have overlooked for now so it would be interesting to see where others continue to fail.
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Consistency in this trading context as 'the aim' could be defined as : The execution of a trading plan in such a way that it always delivers a net gain over any given sample size.

The 2 main factors in achieving this are

a. Having a proven trading edge
b. Developing a plan of execution of that trading edge that you are able to carry out
to achieve the consistency.

Consistency is achieved by the marriage of these 2 factors and this assumes that

i. The trading edge is based on sound and repeating principles
ii. The trader has developed sufficient knowledge of the trading edge including it's strike rate and potential for a consecutive losing run as well as typical and potential drawdown across any sample such that he can spot untypical traits in it's behaviour that might cause him to alter the plan of execution.
iii. The trader has proven his ability to execute the plan across a large typical sample of the trading edge.

All of the above is fine as a definition of consistency but in simple text I think it is primarily derived by this knowledge of your trading edge, ie knowing whjat it is capable of and what it might expose you to...this is important because you don't want there to be any surprises that might detsabilise you psychologically thus renedering you unable to impliment the trading plan surrounding it's execution. I suspect that few traders have this detailed knowledge and history of their trading edge across all known and typical market conditions. Secondly, the ability to execute the pan, thiu leading to this consistency is gained through the experience of trying to impliment it. As an example I recognised early on that I was not well equiped in dealing with long consecutive losing runs, - they effectively destabilsied me rendering my ability to continue to execute the plan impaired thus jepordising the chances of the gain over the sample. I therefore sought to develop a high probability trading edge and then sought to understand everything I could about that trading edge such that it's implimentation as part of the plan could throw up no surprises or indeed long consecutive losing runs, leaving me with the best chance of realising the aim of consistency. Youy simply have to recognise your own stengths and shortfalls and find the best fit trading edge for them if you are going to achieve consistency. This in a nutshell is how such a prize is achieved.

G/L
 
If I asked the following questions, how many traders could answer them? I wonder.

Your trading edge:

1. Across how many live trades was it developed (the sample?)
2. Do you know it's overall strike rate ?(and if derived from several individual set-ups do you know their individual strike rates across the entire sample?)
NB: Strike rate = winning trades per your plan as a % of total trades
3. As a result of knowing it's strike rate do you know it's a) most probable typical and b) most probable longest consecutive losing run and across what sample size this is likely?
4. As a result of knowing 3. above is your money and risk management optimised such that when a )and more crucially b) described in 3. above occur/may occur respectively, are you prepared for it ? - ie is your ability to continue to act when the trading edge develops, impaired either by;

i. Being unable to act at the trading edge -and/or-
ii. Being able to act on it but finding it unable to hold for the full planned gain

These, i. and ii; both primarily as a result of a fear of further negatively impacting an account already in drawdown?

Consistency in my view is easier to achieve when you know from live trading experience the answers to the questions above.

G/L
 
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