Types of Breakouts?

AllanXT said:
Thank you Soc for your contributions to this thread as well. Your point seems to be that if I used "trend direction" as a filter then I would not have traded any of those breakouts on the chart by Skim. Additionally, I could use the ADX as a filter for determining periods of congestion (do not take breakout trade unless ADX is below a certain value). Am I on the right track?

thanks,

Allan

Allan,
Your conclusion is the correct one. I repeat: Congestions are interruptions that occur in the general direction of a trend (Bramble pay attention) therefore these congestions may or may not be overcome. If they are overcome they are breakouts, that continue. If they are not overcome, they may take off as breakouts and then fail. Therefore, the first lot are continuations and the second lot are reversals.

I have no idea what ADX is or what it is purported that it can do or can not do.

I am concerned with excercising judgement from the point of view of of the correct mindset that does not rely on indicators. Some of these even rely on astrology and some are even purported to make the tea for you, but what does work is a mark one eyeball properly focused on events as they unfold. The market delivers unexpected information shocks to the unprepared and the unwary. Relying on indicators prevents you from proactively engaging brain and directing focus.
 
Newsflash guys n gal: The trading Holy Grail does exist. It's in each and every one of us. The quest is to find it within, not outside of ourselves. Of course all our Grails are different, if not unique.

I watched Excalibur last night - and the penny dropped
 
Too Cool Price Trader

SOCRATES said:
Allan,
I have no idea what ADX is or what it is purported that it can do or can not do.

I am concerned with excercising judgement from the point of view of of the correct mindset that does not rely on indicators. Some of these even rely on astrology and some are even purported to make the tea for you, but what does work is a mark one eyeball properly focused on events as they unfold. The market delivers unexpected information shocks to the unprepared and the unwary. Relying on indicators prevents you from proactively engaging brain and directing focus.

This is really what I have been looking for you know. I read Jesse Livermore's classic to find out what traders did before computers and indicators? How did traders get the job done? You point about using the eyeball and brain is exactly what I'm looking for. Skim has also set me on the same track with some great advice (via PM) about being a "Price Trader".

I am so glad I started this thread. I am very thankful for all of the help from you all. I have lots of work to do and I am working on my "training plan" to get started.

Good trading all,

Allan
 
AllanXT said:
This is really what I have been looking for you know. [...] You point about using the eyeball and brain is exactly what I'm looking for. Skim has also set me on the same track with some great advice (via PM) about being a "Price Trader".

Allan, are you looking at the 'no indicators' thread over on the indices forum?
 
No Indicators

TheBramble said:
Allan, are you looking at the 'no indicators' thread over on the indices forum?

Yes, it is a long thread and I have not read very far into it yet. But I plan to read and study the whole thread and keep up with it daily. Skim was saying to make sure to read it as well.

Allan
 
AllanXT said:
This is really what I have been looking for you know. I read Jesse Livermore's classic to find out what traders did before computers and indicators? How did traders get the job done? You point about using the eyeball and brain is exactly what I'm looking for. Skim has also set me on the same track with some great advice (via PM) about being a "Price Trader".

I am so glad I started this thread. I am very thankful for all of the help from you all. I have lots of work to do and I am working on my "training plan" to get started.

Good trading all,

Allan

Right, what happens here is the following: ~

The Reminescences of a Stock Operator is not really what it is purported to be by countless readers. It is in fact, a textbook. It is a textbook of market conduct written in conversational style.
When I say conduct, this phrase has two meanings, you understand.

Meaning no 1 = proper behaviour.
Meaning no 2 = the correct way for a trader to carry out his business.

It provides for the attentive student several models presented as scenarios, each of which delivers a lesson. But you have to be sufficiently aware to be able to benefit from these lessons. The lesson can be repeated again and again but it is not until the recipient is ready that the lesson either has any meaning or benefit. Therefore the individual has to work on himself / herself to attain higher levels of awareness.

This is a very long and difficult process. The route is very difficult and impossible for many people who try it. took me 27 years of work finally to crack the whole agenda from A ~ Z..
I was able to achieve it because I was told it could not be done. You have to have the right character to persist in this way, against all odds, for so long.

In my experience, and I assure you I have a lot, everybody will tell you they aspire, but when faced with the cliff they have to climb, either give up or try what they believe to be an easy route
~ as I have said before, there are no short cuts.

In going for the easy route, the consequence is that they never develop. When people are not developed they get into knitting circles in the hope that sharing is the route. This is a normal expectation in any profession but not in this one. This is because as a result of being bombarded with opinions, the ability to develop the correct faculties is impaired and finally disabled.

You will all observe that I never ever ask a question.

I only give answers, and I assure you they are always the correct ones, otherwise I stay silent.
This is because I only intervene when I spot an error of principle and, as this is a thread for beginners, the principles they must build on must be the correct ones, and not the opinions that are bandied about for the sake of making posts.

See my post in which I make reference to the difference between and opinion and a view.
 
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You will all observe that I never ever ask a question.
I only give answers, and I assure you they are always the correct ones, otherwise I stay silent.


I reckon you've got a problem.
 
I will not allow anyone to invalidate me. What I explain is the obvious, beyond what is mechanical. And even at a mechanical level very few can master fundamental truths which to me are obvious. The majority cannot and will not make the effort. I am not going to sit here all night explaining explanations already given. Therefore I will not persist any further with you lot.
 
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Dear Socrates,

I see what you mean, its like climbing a mountain with people like these.

Even though you have explained everything very clearly, they don't seem too understand
the meaning of your explanations and then try and come up with their own comments, excuses etc which are nonsense.

After printing and reading all your answers , I came to the conclusion that even you are trying
to help them, they are not at all suitable because they are not willing to listen and learn from you, if they knew what is really required to succeed in this profession they will be shocked.The only way (maybe) is to start these people from scratch (like you did with me) and then there might be some of them that are suitable, but it seems like an impossible task or its too late for some of them (the one's that are set in their ways).

After reading all this, it's confirmed to me the view I had on the majority of normal people is correct, they are not capable stepping of the treadmills and doing something with their own free will.
But then again can you blame them? They have been born and bred in that enviroment and have been kept prisoners all their lives.

The way that you have trained me (step by step) it has taken me a long time to think like this
and say the above and meaning every word.


Kind regards,

Jed
 
Types of Breakouts

The purpose of this thread is to make a list of all the different types of breakouts. The thread has also focused on understanding what causes a breakout and trading tactics for breakouts. Let's all keep our focus on the purpose of the thread please.

Allan
 
Breakout List Update

TYPES OF BREAKOUTS

1. Highest High / Lowest Low Breakout
2. Volatility Breakout
3. Opening Range Breakout
4. Post Breakout Patterns (ilia king)
5. NR7 Breakouts (FTSE Beater)
6. Pattern Breakouts (Pennants, Traingles, Wedges) (Skimbleshanks)
7. Ross Hook Breakout (mheitkoe)
8. Gap Breakouts (SOCRATES)
9. 5min & 15min Late-day Breakout (cd173)
10.Channel Breakout (TheBramble)
11. Support & Resistance Breakout (TheBramble)
12. Range Breakout (AllanXT)
13. Standard Deviation Breakout (AllanXT)

Are there any other types of breakouts that can be tested?

I would also like to add that I just got the Bulkowski book and started going through it. What an incredible book, full of chart patterns, statistics and trading tactics. Well worth the money.

Thanks and good trading all....

XT
 
IMO you should focus on understanding what a market is doing and how it behaves, rather than trying to define every combination of bars and putting them into a box. A breakout occurs for reasons already explained. Thats the important thing to understand - the psychology of the market so to speak. One such reason being that several of your definitions are really the same one thing.

However, although I doubt what you are attempting will help much in the long term, its this kind of thing that most people do - only to learn from their mistakes at a later date (hopefully!).

I think you've got to fall over a few times inorder to move on. Maybe trading is one wheel we all have to reinvent for our selves???
 
"I think you've got to fall over a few times inorder to move on. Maybe trading is one wheel we all have to reinvent for our selves"...how true..you may just have to read the crap to get to the point where you understand it is just crap before you can move ahead...

and in fairness I didn't actually recommend Bulowski in the thread above ..I just said "save yourself the trouble" within the context of what was being attempted was already covered by Bulowski.....

bear in mind that a lot of TA is just like astrology..when it comes 'true' and can be seen to be 'true' with hindsight it is wonderful..the rest of the time you might just as well stick a pin in the chart and trade where it lands...on the otherhand you can simply use indicators or patterns for simple confirmation of what price is telling you
 
Price Trader

BBB said:
IMO you should focus on understanding what a market is doing and how it behaves, rather than trying to define every combination of bars and putting them into a box.

If I have learned one lesson from this thread it is that I should become a price trader. The posts from Skim, including a few PM's and now your post BBB and your post Chump confirm it. I did ask Skim how one trains to become a price trader and was given some good advice. I appreciate your comments about price trading and I will endeavor to learn it as best I can.

Thanks again and good trading,

Allan
 
AllanXT said:
If I have learned one lesson from this thread it is that I should become a price trader. The posts from Skim, including a few PM's and now your post BBB and your post Chump confirm it. I did ask Skim how one trains to become a price trader and was given some good advice. I appreciate your comments about price trading and I will endeavor to learn it as best I can.

Thanks again and good trading,

Allan

There seems to be very little support on this board for systems trading. This board is oriented towards being a "Price Trader." So a list of breakout types
seems like a waiste of time to traders focused on price trading. The Bulkowski book using statistics for patterns is useful for system trading, but only slightly useful for price trading. I came looking for breakouts to test and instead found out all about being a "Price Trader". I would therefore suggest that I could use system trading (trades based on high probability) and also use "Price Trader" techniques for fine tuning th entry and exits of my system. What are your comments on this?

thank you and good trading,

Allan
 
Even though I use little else other than price, volume and volatility - a vital component which most ignore or dont comprehend, my honest feeling is that price trading is just another fashion in the trading world.

These fashions tend to last a few years before the crowd moves to something else. Indicators, Fib numbers, Gann geometry, breakouts, retracements, system trading, manual trading blah blah blah. Some of these like Fib and Gann have been, gone, and came back into fashion. Indicators came around in the 80's with the advent of computers and the PC etc. Nowdays, indicators are considered about as sophisticated as a prawn cocktail. Eventually some bright spark comes up with a way to fade the current fashion, and a few years later that method works its way into the trading media, early adopters start making money, it becomes main stream etc. Eventually you get full circle.

Maybe neural-nets will be the next big thing and we will be laughing at ourselves in 5 years time. Who knows! Do you? Answers on a post card please to

Trade 2 Win
PO Box 0.312,
Cyberspace.
 
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