Tories soft on immigration

[rawrschach]

you realise this thread is about illegal immigration

 

[Atilla]

With an aging popullation and declining birth rates there is no alternative to immigration.


Socialist scaremongering (and i like you Atilla). The decent people don't have kids cause they can't afford them, the rest have kids cause the decent people pay for them.

Socialism at its finest.

Not scaremongering at all. Beg to differ.

Pure statistics and sums.

Your views are way off the richter scale mon ami...

If anything taxation laws benefit single individuals and not families. Successful people are often part of an extended family - off-shoot.

Individualism and the classical nuclear families are doomed.

Did you see Mega Cities - ie Japan. Highly disfunctional society. In a village of 30m a successful individual has to telephone - Rent-a-friend, so he can look normal at a party. Superficial heartless rich person he must be - but obviously socially inept.


I'm not a socialist or capitalist or any ist or ism.


I would tax the individual and favour giving it to families as that is where success if often bred.

 

[kimo'sabby]

Not scaremongering at all. Beg to differ.

Pure statistics and sums.

Your views are way off the richter scale mon ami...

If anything taxation laws benefit single individuals and not families. Successful people are often part of an extended family - off-shoot.

Individualism and the classical nuclear families are doomed.

Did you see Mega Cities - ie Japan. Highly disfunctional society. In a village of 30m a successful individual has to telephone - Rent-a-friend, so he can look normal at a party. Superficial heartless rich person he must be - but obviously socially inept.


I'm not a socialist or capitalist or any ist or ism.


I would tax the individual and favour giving it to families as that is where success if often bred.

We're the only species on this planet who puts more effort into bad genes. Excluding some real drastic advances in science, the whole socialistic way is doomed.

You can't beat nature. Don't bother trying.

 

[DashRiprock]

well look I aint no xenophobe but i dont like people walkin around in them dressing gowns and stuff. well maybe I am a xenephobe, but so wat?!

look in nature not everyone is friends, the idea that everyone should be able to play nicely and be friends with everyone else is a social idealism not a natural practicality. Same with all the medical stuff I reckon, let the weak babies die and bettor for human race. Thats what the romans did and they did alright dint they ffs!

on same note I dont lake chavs just bumming off non chavs so get rid of them too.

while im on it its fuccin dumb that gays and lesbians and old women can go through IVF and artificial insimination and everything just 'cos "they have the right to have a child". There are loads of babies what need love and care so go and get one of those, dont make another one!

 

[DashRiprock]

Not scaremongering at all. Beg to differ.

Pure statistics and sums.

Your views are way off the richter scale mon ami...

If anything taxation laws benefit single individuals and not families. Successful people are often part of an extended family - off-shoot.

Individualism and the classical nuclear families are doomed.

Did you see Mega Cities - ie Japan. Highly disfunctional society. In a village of 30m a successful individual has to telephone - Rent-a-friend, so he can look normal at a party. Superficial heartless rich person he must be - but obviously socially inept.


I'm not a socialist or capitalist or any ist or ism.


I would tax the individual and favour giving it to families as that is where success if often bred.

so then everyone has babies to pay less tax. what are you gonna do then big boy?

 

[kimo'sabby]

Gays can adopt, well whoopee for them and their rights...wot about the f*ckin child? Say the child doesn't want to be brought up by f*ckin gays?

 

[forker]

last piece about the ivf is a little naive. Having your own child is very different to adopting someone else's in that you are passing your genetic seed onto the next generation. Its a case of emotional connection. If I were to relate that logic in other words, although infinitesimal in emotional comparison, why do you buy new items such as clothing and technology when you could buy used ones from charity stores that work just the same?

 

[DashRiprock]

Gays can adopt, well whoopee for them and their rights...wot about the f*ckin child? Say the child doesn't want to be brought up by f*ckin gays?

what if the child dont want to be brought by its mum and dad?! eh?!

mum and dad looking after baby > gays lookin after baby
gays looking after baby > no one lookin after baby specially (like orphans)
gays lookin after baby already born > gays makin their own baby

I mean gays lookin after babies that are made especially seems pretty wrong to me like its a social experiment with babies livlihood as dependent variable

 

[DashRiprock]

last piece about the ivf is a little naive. Having your own child is very different to adopting someone else's in that you are passing your genetic seed onto the next generation. Its a case of emotional connection. If I were to relate that logic in other words, although infinitesimal in emotional comparison, why do you buy new items such as clothing and technology when you could used ones from charity stores that work just the same?

Having my own child and passing down my schlong genes is not an entitlement. If im firin blanks its tuff t!ts for me, enginerring test tube baby is not right course of action.

evolution has worked for the past 100 million years so no point d!ckin around with it IMO.

 

[forker]

Well if that's the case then why bother evolving?
Also your view on not being fertile is a insensitive don't you think. Sounds to me like you wish you didn't want a son. What do you think he would say to you if he could comprehend what you just said.

Edit: having children is an entitlement. Without that we would t survive

 

[DashRiprock]

last piece about the ivf is a little naive. Having your own child is very different to adopting someone else's in that you are passing your genetic seed onto the next generation. Its a case of emotional connection. If I were to relate that logic in other words, although infinitesimal in emotional comparison, why do you buy new items such as clothing and technology when you could buy used ones from charity stores that work just the same?

and another thing, I more mean women having IVF than men (I dont know if you can get a blank firer to be a non-blank firer anyway), but the problem is because because of womens rights and everything women think they are entitled to a carrer AND to be a full time mum and do career first then get IVF and sperm doner when their like 45 or sumthin.


well look let me tell you this women that think like that do a great disservice to mums all around the bloody world because being a good mum is one of like the top 3 most important jobs in the world EVER since the history of human being and even going back to the dinosoars. Saying "I want a career AND be a mum, so Im gonna engineer myself a baby when I can afford one" is total selfish from all women that do it.

 

[kimo'sabby]

what if the child dont want to be brought by its mum and dad?! eh?!


Then the child aint normal. F*ck me mate, us humans are one f*cked up species, i'm not even sure we deserve a place in the future. We seem to have a real hard time dealing with the facts. We are clever, but way too emotional.

 

[forker]

and another thing, I more mean women having IVF than men (I dont know if you can get a blank firer to be a non-blank firer anyway), but the problem is because because of womens rights and everything women think they are entitled to a carrer AND to be a full time mum and do career first then get IVF and sperm doner when their like 45 or sumthin.


well look let me tell you this women that think like that do a great disservice to mums all around the bloody world because being a good mum is one of like the top 3 most important jobs in the world EVER since the history of human being and even going back to the dinosoars. Saying "I want a career AND be a mum, so Im gonna engineer myself a baby when I can afford one" is total selfish from all women that do it.

Actually women have hormones that make them want to have children. Its a natural thing not a selfish one

 

[DashRiprock]

Well if that's the case then why bother evolving?

i dont get this point

Also your view on not being fertile is a insensitive don't you think. Sounds to me like you wish you didn't want a son. What do you think he would say to you if he could comprehend what you just said.

again dont really get what your driving at. Insensitive? how? look for everyone who cannot concieve I'm sad for you, really I am, but the world doesnt owe you a family.

Edit: having children is an entitlement. Without that we would t survive

No, having children is not an entitlement. Nor is happines or a job or anything in life.

 

[DashRiprock]

Actually women have hormones that make them want to have children. Its a natural thing not a selfish one

I'm sure thats true just like men have hormones that make them want to bonk women.

 

[forker]

i dont get this point

You said we shouldn't be messing with nature. If we didn't where would we be as a species today? Medicine, surgery, lifespan, etc.

again dont really get what your driving at. Insensitive? how? look for everyone who cannot concieve I'm sad for you, really I am, but the world doesnt owe you a family.

It's got nothing to do with the world owing you anything. Insensitive because I am one of those people that cant have children and it isn't looking likely I ever will. Do you know what that feels like! Clearly not. I'm not looking for your sympathy it just angers me when people say this type of stuff when they haven't got a clue what it is like to be in that situation.

No, having children is not an entitlement. Nor is happines or a job or anything in life.

I don't see where you correlate jobs with children. One is a function of nature and the other is man made. If planting the seed for our future isn't an entitlement then what is? All creatures of this plant have an entitlement to reproduce.

 

[DashRiprock]

You said we shouldn't be messing with nature. If we didn't where would we be as a species today? Medicine, surgery, lifespan, etc.

But sometimes we go the wrong way. Like saving a premature baby might not always be the right thing to do, or have a surrogate Mum for a same sex couple. These decisions are primarily made with social and political considerations, which isn't always the best approach.

It's got nothing to do with the world owing you anything. Insensitive because I am one of those people that cant have children and it isn't looking likely I ever will. Do you know what that feels like! Clearly not. I'm not looking for your sympathy it just angers me when people say this type of stuff when they haven't got a clue what it is like to be in that situation.

well like I said if you are in this situation and you wanted children then I am sad for you honest I am

I don't see where you correlate jobs with children. One is a function of nature and the other is man made.

why are they diffrent? what about in africa where a "job" is growing food for your family. Does the world "owe" you a good harvest? No. Just because you take a "job" to mean a money-paying position in a developed economy does not change what a job is for. Look at a blue tit in your garden. its "job" is to dig up worms to feed itself and its chicks. Some blue tits dont get to have chicks either and some blue tits die from not enough worms. Life, innit.

Humans are exactly the same with "jobs" and "families" as blue tits are with worms and chicks.

If planting the seed for our future isn't an entitlement then what is?

well to me an entitlement is something that you earn. By being born you havent earned the entitlement to have children.

All creatures of this plant have an entitlement to reproduce.

why? who says?

 

[kimo'sabby]

By all means have children. Just don't expect some other f*cker to pay for them.

I love my kids first.....and i pay for them.

 

[forker]

Natures entitlement has been earned though millions of years of survival and evolution. Our modern world is not even a p!ss in the ocean in terms of earning entitlement comparatively. Yet its those millions of years that brought about humans and our entitlement through evolved intelligence to change the laws of nature.
You cannot compare our species to tits in gardens because you don't see tits engineering technology. Hypothetically speaking, if tits were intelligent enough to cultivate their own worm farms and have tit scientists and tit doctors heal their sick, do you think that tit will tell you that he is not interested, that he would rather let mother nature control its world?

The entitlement you speak of is governed by rules of mankind and not nature.

 

[kimo'sabby]

The entitlement you speak of is governed by rules of mankind and not nature.[/QUOTE]


No. Don't act stupid.