Time - Developing JftB Issues

[trendie]

TheBramble,

Do you want to test if it is possible to "predict" the future ?

If so, have you tried remote-viewing ?
This is a CIA-inspired development, where the intention was to use this "spooky" idea to transport the conciousness ( out-of-the-body ? ) to a proposed location.
Then the viewer was to give impressions of the location.
Studies initially indicated it was possible to get information form a remote-location without actually being there.
However, since then, the methodology has been called into question, and thus the perceived above-average chance of getting "hits".

Anyway, what they found was that under certain conditions, the viewers were getting impressions of events as well as locations.
And also, these events were yet to happen !!
Some viewers refined this to the point they could decide to visit locations in the future !

David Morehouse wrote a book about this. No doubt google will provide more.

 

[Thirteen]

u see the use of net future time! i display an example for how net future time can be implemented in a non threatening - non trouble making manner - just a simple prediction based on net past and net present situations - and the meanie old mods delete my posts - probably because they are the dunces and the duffers and i am not!

i see what HE meant now - i guess t2w just is not ready for these concepts.

 

[Bigbusiness]

I do like the idea of remote viewing but I am not sure that it works. Uri Gellar is a master of this sort of thing but he doesn't convince me. He couldn't even get the correct day for Michael Jackson's birthday, when he was trying to 'connect' with him from the jungle.

I had a quick look at his website and I did find this an interesting read. 11.11 is a noticeable time because it looks so strange on a digital clock but I still find it interesting:-

http://www.uri-geller.com/articles/11.htm

 

[trendie]

In Uri Gellers defence, Jackos nose has a different birthday ( or is that graftday ) to his chin, and different to his ears, and different to his hair, to the rest of his body !!

If you think 11:11 is noticeable on a digital clock, how about a flashing 88:88 on the morning of an important meeting !

 

[stevet]

trendie

so you reckon uri was tuned into Jackos nose or ears - mmm - wonder if he has had any work done on his weener - maybe uri would have felt like he was getting shafted -but then again - no - he is an adult

 

[Glenn]

http://skepdic.com/randi.html

Glenn

 

[DaveJB]

Funny,
but like the CIA story many of these tales have two versions - the one where the CIA found some evidence for it, and the version where they got nowhere. A bit like the Aliens in Nevada (travel x light years but can't design a safe means to land, then spend decades building F117's for the USA... yeah, right...)

Common ideas about time include that it's a whole series of events - think of frames in a film strip - where you can nip between frames (presumably by using your secret bazooka joe decoder ring or similar), another goody is that it is travelling the other way to our perception - we are going from the future to the past, but perceive it the other way around. The 'arrow of time' is one of the few things like this in physics that has a specific direction - so maybe it doesn't actually have a direction but it is our viewpoint that is incorrect... (If time flows the other way we're all great fortune tellers but suffering from awful memory lapses).

I occasionally throw things like this into the melting pot for my 5th and 6th year physics students, to stop them getting complacent and to stress that physics 'knowledge' is actually just our best estimate of a problem so far.

Having said that, and admitted that theoretically there are some grounds to imagine (stress that word) that time may not work quite the way we figure, the simplest answer often turns out correct and linear time, heading past into future, matches observation for the vast majority of people so far. I am highly dubious of claims that time is being manipulated - I will happily accept that at various times (oops) our perception of its passing can alter as things seem to pass in an eyeblink whilst an accident occurs in slow motion, but that (I would argue) is really a case of slowing down or speeding up our thought processes - to actually manipulate time would be the keys to the kingdom, and were I able to do it I would consider using it for trading to be quite petty.

Dave

 

[TheBramble]

to actually manipulate time would be the keys to the kingdom, and were I able to do it I would consider using it for trading to be quite petty.

Too true. But you might need a few 'readies' whatever you were going to do with your new found skills in time manipulation and there isn't a 'Psychology' forum on the Camelot site so I asked here instead...

Seriously though Dave, yes, you're absolutely right. But as this topic had been brought up by another t2w member a while back...it seems forgivable for me to continue the research here, especially as it has been an on-going area of research of mine for a number of years.

In the past there have been a number of posts in various threads highlighting the 'similar interests' traders have or the 'similar backgrounds' they hail from...there also seems to be a general interest in this sort of stuff. I bet we were/are all Sci-Fi readers in our teens...(or even still?)

 

[DaveJB]

Sure Tony,
no bother - I'll sit in the pub and discuss virtually anything with anyone (the one constant being the sitting in the pub part <g>). I have a huge book collection (only one book, but it's 20m x 30m....) and SciFi was definitely a significant interest in the 70's, I still read some now and then.
Another 'interest' is the astrology angle, Delta is one example of assoication of trend change with various natural cycles - as a physicist I accept (as we are meant to but many don't) that (a) we know very little, but have excellent approximations to a great deal, (b) Some bits we know little about, but as physicists we aren't about ot admit that, and (c) Some of this stuff is very interesting, but let's face it there's a strong chance that 90% of what looks whacky is going to turn out to be total cobblers.

I'm comfortable with re-examining things like time, but it is not enough to assume that because centuries of effort by brilliant chaps like Newton haven't explained it completely, then some dipsh*t from the 'Blue Oyster Lounge' must have the definitive answer instead.... I have seen lots of evidence for linear time, very little for any other sort. I have seen (and experienced) lots of occasions when time went quickly as my life flashed before me (one example - I've taken off in a 4 jet with one turning, one burning, and two coughing out a flock of birds... this impromptu lesson, and others, has probably helped my TP develop no end <g>).

I can accept the perception of time altering, with regard to the rate it is flowing at - adrenalin and various recreational pharmaceuticals will do that at the drop of a hat - I still require decent proof that 'future' can be observed accurately. As a TA type I am happy that it can be predicted with varyoing degrees of success and consistency.

I have still to find anything to beat a decent trend or breakout based system - let's be honest, a system that drew a nice circle around the bar (on day 1) that showed with 70% accuracy that a 5 day+ trend had begun would be more use than all the fluff seen so far. (Being modest, som e would argue deservedly so, I include my own efforts in 'fluff').

As for keys of the kingdom, of course I'd 'waste' an hour or two each day taking care of the mundane items, such as providing enough ready cash to use banknotes as fire lighters, keep the Gulfstream in peanuts, and so on... but I'd certainly spend at least - oooh - 6 hours a day curing all the world's ills.

Dave

 

[trendie]

This thread is leading towards building a Tardis !

DaveJB, just read your post.

This big book of yours. Was that the big black obelisk like book in 2001: A Space Odyssey ??

 

[TheBramble]

I have a huge book collection (only one book, but it's 20m x 30m....) and SciFi was definitely a significant interest in the 70's, I still read some now and then.
Another 'interest' is the astrology angle, Delta

That certainly is a 'big book' collection Dave. But it's only 2-dimensional - so it doesn't count.

As for Delta - don't get me started. Or they'll be suing me on these boards as well..

 

[TheBramble]

This big book of yours. Was that the big black obelisk like book in 2001: A Space Odyssey ??

OK. OK. So... if there's only TWO films....

 

[trendie]

TheBramble,

I am having a more lucid moment - why do you want to be able to see the future anyway ?
Just being able to judge the most likely outcome, and get it right more often than not, gives you an impressive advantage, especially when compounded over time ( !! ).

Being able to be right ALL the time, is an absolute state.
Being more right than the average person gives you a relative advantage.

Do you want ABSOLUTE mastery, or just relative mastery over other ( one-eyed-man-in-kingdom-of-blind ).

 

[TheBramble]

I am having a more lucid moment - why do you want to be able to see the future anyway ?.

Oh, I don't...but I have this friend....

Trendie, I'm not talking about 'just' seeing the future. I'm actively interested in the possibility of manipulating it, and the past.

The thing is with a Paradox - you need a lot of Orange Sauce...

 

[trendie]

ESP ? Psychokinesis ?

Didnt Robert Jahn, a sceptic engineer, start doing experiments to see if people could manipulate the decay of radioactive particles ( to ensure randomness ), and through his results became a firm believer on micro-PK ?

Soemthing like that ?

 

[DaveJB]

Hang on,
never mind manipulating particles (my favourite Greek poet, by the way), is that 'shredded' paradox, or roasted?
Dave

 

[TheBramble]

I knew you weere going to post that! (just kidding...)

No/Yes, not really.

That's fine as far as an experiment goes. I'm more interested in the common, everyday, down-to-earth manipulation of future events. Influencing the radioactive decay of a lump of 'glow-harm' ain't my idea of useful or even fun!

The more you practise 'fixing' future events and precogging them - the more it occurs.

It's like a muscle - the more you use it, exercise it - the stronger it gets.

Try it for yourself.

There's a whole lot of Unconscious stuff that get's utilised. I can't really even begin to explain it.

You start to 'imagine' getting a letter from someone. Or someone phoning you or walking up to the front door.

You 'guess' what the time is before you look at your watch/clock.

You 'pretend' you know what someone is going to say or do. Real life, TV - doesn't matter. The more you do it - the more it works.

That's why I wanted to continue the stuff that was posted on JftB on this thread in relation to time. Socco was intimately aware of the CIA initiative and programmes in this area and had the names of the people involved and the programmes themselves (which he PM'd me and I was also aware of prior to his PM) so I know he was on the level in this area.

With or without his continued presence, these are areas I feel are worth investigating further.

 

[TheBramble]

Hang on,
never mind manipulating particles (my favourite Greek poet, by the way), is that 'shredded' paradox, or roasted?
Dave

Ooooo....Dave, you are a sharp one. Aylesbury actually.

Over to Joke of the Day....

 

[trendie]

I can understand manipulating particles aint fun, but it abstractly proved mind can move matter !!

With regards to perceiving future events, is this related to "waking dreams" ?
There is some evidence that hypnagogic and hypnopompic dreams ( immediately after falling asleep, and immediately waking, I forget which ), if remembered are most vivid, and can hold cryptic clues to future events.

There is an exercise, where you wake up half and hour than you usually do, and then drift off into a semi-sleep state. The dreams you have are more vivid, and can become controllable. If you have a strong intention on seeing the future, it becomes so.
On waking, write your impressions down..
These, apparently, seem to be strong indicators towards being able to manipulate dreams,a nd perhaps, seeing future events.

Problem is, the subconcious, being essentially emotional, tags onto emotional events, rather than numerical ( market prices ).

i have experienced dreams where I feel I am in control, but I can never read signs, they suddenly become blurry, because that is a left-brain function, whereas dreams are right-brain actions.

Am I going off at a tangent here ?

 

[DaveJB]

Hmm,
as I said earlier, CIA tried this, as did KGB and others - there are two versions of each doing the rounds (actually I'd guess at 5....) in one it all failed dismally, in another it all showed promise. (It seldom reveals itself to be spot on, unless you read the 'National Enquirer' version). My background includes some exposure to the reality behind the stories in circulation, and extrapolating from this I have decided that Occam's razor has the edge (it is customary to claim 'no pun intended' here, but I'll take the credit...)

I have found very little that runs contrary to the laws of Physics that is a tenth as provable as those things that align with said laws - you may have a knack or skill that gives you a noticeable edge in some area for a fraction (perhaps a significant fraction) of the time, science is still searching very very hard to find a genuine prognosticator with demonstrable and repeatable ability. Consider this - if the CIA had developed an effective means of determining (let alone manipulating) the future, then would 9/11 have occurred? Claims that it would have gone ahead to mask the ability don't wash - there are dozens of ways to fake an 'accidental' discovery of a plot like that. For CIA substitute the FSB (dunno if this is the homepage, or an Ivan with a sense of humour, but http://www.fsb.ru is the link)... the same applies - under Soviet control the KGB had power and privilege, they wouldn't have allowed the collapse to occur had they pre-cog'd it.

Like most scams - which is how I view this, ie with deep skepticism -it is very very easy to produce claims that fly in the face of 'fact' (or hardened opinion, as I somewhat cynically view that word) but rather difficult to satisy any sane criteria when asked to prove the claims in anything approaching a scientific manner. That is NOT because scientists set unreasonable terms for the tests, a fair test changes one parameter and displays a reasonably consistent response to changes in the input...

Exercising the unconscious works, to a point - I'd argue that you are actually using parts of the brain that exist but are seldom exercised... and the exercise/muscle analogy is appropriate - part of what I teach is 'thinking skills' where we try to do waht I call 'weight lifting for the brain', to exercise these areas. I would strongly deny that they are precognition, I would argue that you are analysing a range of inputs and determining with some accuracy the likely result - poke a Rhino with a sharp stick and he'll get annoyed... this isn't precognition, just experience. Some are better at it than others, some haven't a clue. Some look at a chart and instinctively know the most likely outcome - as in the way the pattern might develop. Nobody on T2W does it consistently, I would hazard, those members currently reading this via their Satellite enabled Laptops on their private jets enroute the Seychelles please forgive me for overlooking such a relative minority.

Ayelsbury - been there, didn't have to Duck though.....
Dave