The Rumpled One (TRO OR Avery Horton)

[lbranjord]

Feel free to ask me questions directly.

My question for you TRO is this, have you given up on EA's? I think with your coding experience, you'd be just as interested in creating those as indicators. I don't want one, I've just been curious about that for awhile. The indicator guru has never delved into Expert Advisors?

I'm only asking because I've been going crazy coding them now trying to find a repeatable task that works. It'd be nice to hear that it's possible.

 

[TheRumpledOne]

NO, I have not given up on EAs because I HAVE NEVER WRITTEN ONE. I code indicators.

MT4 does not have the tools necessary to code a decent robot, IMHO. There are so many things you have to have the robot manage. Failure to do so results in loss.

 

[lbranjord]

NO, I have not given up on EAs because I HAVE NEVER WRITTEN ONE. I code indicators.

MT4 does not have the tools necessary to code a decent robot, IMHO. There are so many things you have to have the robot manage. Failure to do so results in loss.

I realize your rat system wouldn't fit and a few of the other more discretionary methods to your trading. But if you can open, close and modify an order. You can create your stop loss criteria and trail it however you like. You can use any indicator available in MT4 and get the shape of all the recent candles based on high/low/open/close, you should be able to create an EA from it. If you cannot, it must be because your methods are largely intuitive.

I don't see anything wrong with intuition, just stating a fact as I see it.

 

[TheRumpledOne]

I realize your rat system wouldn't fit and a few of the other more discretionary methods to your trading. But if you can open, close and modify an order. You can create your stop loss criteria and trail it however you like. You can use any indicator available in MT4 and get the shape of all the recent candles based on high/low/open/close, you should be able to create an EA from it. If you cannot, it must be because your methods are largely intuitive.

I don't see anything wrong with intuition, just stating a fact as I see it.

I never said an EA could NOT be created. I said I do not code EAs.

There is NOTHING intuitive about trading this method:

1) price within 20 pips of the daily low - that is OPPORTUNITY

2) red candle closes

3) green candle closes - note the high price of the green candle.

4) enter long at the green candle's high price

5) STOP LOSS IS 10 PIPS

6) Take whatever profit you can.

7) If the rules do not mention it, then it is of no concern.

 

[lbranjord]

Alright then. That's good news actually. I'll write an EA on it with these exact rules and no discretion. I know many people have attempted to write them already based on your rat reversal, but something like 99% have no idea what they are doing.

I'll post to the forum so we all know the outcome. Thanks for keeping up on the posts TRo

EDIT: Take whatever profit you can is based upon discretion/intuition. Perhaps I can code a standard rule in to take profit and make it work but I have to disagree with your post now. There's no arguement that can resolve the fact that intuition plays a major part in order closing on your rat reversal method.

 

[4xgolfer]

I have been benefiting from TRO for the last three years...the number on indicators is staggering! This last week I used one of his indicators to select pairs to trade - I am up over $250.00 trading only 1 mini lot in two days! (The fact is I only traded for 2 hour.) Indicators still need a trading plan and money management that fit your personal trading style. If you want to be successful walk with the Elephants’! Avery Horton is one of the Good Guys.

 

[fugly]

My first post on Trade2win.

I agree with the poster above.

I don't know this guy (TRO) . . . and have never used his indicators. But I've read his postings on various websites and it seems like a lot of quasi-Zen BS. Lots of "trading is simple" and "do you see?"

But from what I've seen, the so-called "simplicity" eventually degenerates into a mess of muddled thinking, half-baked ideas and more quasi-Zen, "look at the pretty sunset" BS.

He reminds me of Murrey . . . of Murrey Math fame . . . for all I know, he IS Murrey. The two share one thing in common - you can't get a straight answer out of either one.

Good teachers . . . true teachers . . . have a knack for seeing the simplicity in the complex and explaining it in a way that doesn't attempt to diminish the student or confuse him. It's not about:

"If hundreds of people understand and a few don't, am I to blame? If a few people understand and hundreds of people don't, am I to blame?"

This is a man of HUGE ego. The answer to both is YES. If you come on a forum proclaiming yourself as a guru of Simplicity and a guru of Never Losing then the responsibility is yours. Totally yours.

Take this for what it's worth . . . I don't know the guy and never used his methods. But from what I've read, he is no teacher . . . and frankly . . . by proclaiming that "trading is simple" when decades of evidence suggests otherwise . . . lacks fundamental credibility.

very well said Jack

 

[eudamonia]

Trading is as simple or difficult as you decide to make it. The problem with most beginning traders is that they want trading shortcuts. Ultimately there are no shortcuts. You want the true "holy grail" of trading? Here it is:

Spend 3-5 hours per day (during market hours) for 2-5 years watching the 1 market you choose. Watch every tick, watch every order. Don't do anything else during those 3-5 hours. No surfing the internet, no checking email, IM, staring at the wall. Do nothing but observe. You may write down your observations. When you have done that trading will be as easy as you thought it could be when you first started. Simple as stealing candy from a baby.

Is that too "Zen like" for you?

P.S. For those of you who will undoubtedly call me a shill, a fake account of TROs, etc. Just remember that the more you think these conspiracy thoughts the more you will fail in the markets. Just truth.

P.P.S. Yes I have met and actually traded with Avery. He is egotistical and mysterious. But he is also very successful. And yes I have used that information to forge my own success.

 

[Tired_Of_Conmen]

Just want to chip in my own experience here with TRO - a great guy who obviously lives and breathes for trading, coding and spreading what he finds. Nothing wrong with that, it's obviously his passion.

Are his methods of any use? Absolutely. Think of it like this: every system/method you ever come across in trading will always win and lose, the trick as we all know is an edge, blah blah blah.

TRO has many methods that give as good an edge as anything else. He comes up with new ideas and codes the indicators for them out of a childlike passion it seems, and he shares them, and he's built up a hate-base, and those haters will be the first to jump all over anything he says - like opposition parties in politics... if the Torys are in power then anything they do must be argued about by Labour. And vice versa - it's their job! The hate-base TRO has created (not on purpose I may add) have a job to slate anything TRO does/says.

So these haters will never win with TRO's methods but may win with others. Or not. Whatever.

Here's the big issue: EAs. EAs are worthless if you want a robot trading for you. Some trade management EAs are good to make life easy, but it's comical how quickly some idiot says "oooh is there an EA for this?" like an EA is the magic answer! LOL! Anyone that asks for a method to become an EA is a stupid stupid idiot!! All you have to do is present a new idea and some lazy doesn't-yet-know-he-has-lost loser creeps into the thread with "hey guys is there an EA for this?" LOL you all have to wake up else you'll never be successul.

Note when I say "EA" I'm talking about a piece of code that trades the method for you, not a "make life easy by adapting order management" type EA - these have a use if you need them.

If you want a robot to trade then just google it, I think you can buy one for like $300 or something which has a 95% win rate and a host of real statement balances on the website to prove $500 turned into £112,445 in 20 days.

LOL!

The reason why TRO's simple methods work as well as any method you guys and gals will ever come across is because it's up to you to work out how much loss is enough, how much profit is enough, whether you recent performance means you should be aggressive or conservative, whether the current volume and activity on the chart is giving away easy money or tough money, etc etc - if the soil is right, the plants will grow, if the soil is ruined, what will you harvest?

Is 20 pips really a stoploss? If you're gonna decide it is, you're on the wrong track already. How can you decide losing 20 pips is ok with any method before you're in the thick of it? Trading is all in your mind, hence why TRO says you don't need indicators. He loves to code so let him code, he's a great guy. I'm sure he's making shed loads of $$$ anyway with or without your blessing guys so while he keeps draining the banks you lot may as well keep squabbling over how many times he's been banned or whether he has an ebook for sale. You keep arguing, he'll keep cashing the chips (and others who have learned from him).

Regards
TOC

(I bet someone now asks: "oh, is there an EA for what TOC just said?" LOL!)

 

[TraderNumber7]

Yes, I am for real...LOL!.

Yeah, a real joke.

 

[TraderNumber7]

...The problem with most beginning traders is that they want trading shortcuts.

Really. And, how long have you been a trader?

The way I see it, one of the most destructive things that newbies have to content with are people like Avery (TRO) and those who shill for him. He's got to be Indicator Burner/Rip-Off King of the entire MQL world. He created "hundreds of his own indicators," is what another shill said for him. Really? Hundreds. How many of them does he use, exactly? I thought all one needed was a simple horizontal line to trade FX successfully.

So, for Avery, it takes hundreds of custom built indicators, but for the newbie, it takes a PayPal Donation and only one horizontal line on a chart? Sounds like a bit of a contradiction to me. Care to clarify any of this crooked schtick?

Or, was that simply: "...too "Zen like" for you?"

P.P.S. Yes I have met and actually traded with Avery. He is egotistical and mysterious. But he is also very successful. And yes I have used that information to forge my own success.

Really. Exactly, how? I mean did you two meet at some undisclosed private location and share....what....an Ethernet connection? WiFi/Hotspot/80211g, what exactly? How did you manage to actually trade with Avery? How the heck does anyone "trade with" anyone else? Did you use his keyboard to place your trades? Did you log into your trading account from his machine, or yours? Did he tell you to click here, or click there - or don't click over there? Did you bring your FREE or PayPayl "TRO compiled Motherload" with you to this trading session?

I'm not saying that trading while around another person is impossible, but you said specifically that you "actually traded with Average," and reads a bit odd to me on the surface. I mean, with him? How does that work, exactly.

When you get done screwing around with Mr. Rip, Burn, and Repackage artist, then maybe you'll have enough time on your hands to really learn something about how this business works. Until then, keep getting Whiplashed to death by bottom and top hunting, when you have no idea whatsoever, where the High or Low will be for the day, week or month - which is precisely why you continually get "Whipped" to death.

 

[DionysusToast]

I agree with TN7 here.

I am sure there are many ways to learn to trade. I for one do not agree with the 'sit and watch charts for 3 hours a day' approach. I disagree with it because you have no idea what it is you should be looking for. I do think that some people are lucky enough to have someone point them in the right direction and if you have that, then 'screen staring' will help you discover if that approach is something you can develop. You will be armed with the knowledge of what to look for and then given time you will discover if it is something you can see yourself.

In terms of people like TRO - such people help to prevent traders from ever being succesful. They fill your head with nonsense, build a crowd of followers who will jump on you if you ever dare question them and have ego's the size of a house.

These are not the hallmarks of a mentor that is secure in his ability to generate money from trading, who will accept all questions without considering them an affront and will tell you that he can only impart his methods, not make them work for you.

 

[Splitlink]

I agree with TN7 here.

I am sure there are many ways to learn to trade. I for one do not agree with the 'sit and watch charts for 3 hours a day' approach. I disagree with it because you have no idea what it is you should be looking for. I do think that some people are lucky enough to have someone point them in the right direction and if you have that, then 'screen staring' will help you discover if that approach is something you can develop. You will be armed with the knowledge of what to look for and then given time you will discover if it is something you can see yourself.

In terms of people like TRO - such people help to prevent traders from ever being succesful. They fill your head with nonsense, build a crowd of followers who will jump on you if you ever dare question them and have ego's the size of a house.

These are not the hallmarks of a mentor that is secure in his ability to generate money from trading, who will accept all questions without considering them an affront and will tell you that he can only impart his methods, not make them work for you.

Oh, dear! TRO, circle the wagons!

DT, dare I say it? TRO actually helped me!

There!

Remember that he is a scalper. There is a lot that longer term traders can't understand,
but amongst that lot I found something and, since then, I've left him in peace.

To coin a phrase

There are nuggets.

 

[TraderNumber7]

Oh, dear! TRO, circle the wagons!

DT, dare I say it? TRO actually helped me!

There!

Remember that he is a scalper. There is a lot that longer term traders can't understand,
but amongst that lot I found something and, since then, I've left him in peace.

To coin a phrase

There are nuggets.

Are you going to sit here and tell me that trading like a Rodent, using the Rodent rules, does not cause you to be Whiplashed half to death in markets that do not have enough sideways bandwidth?

Rat trading is nothing new. Its as old as the invention of the Candlestick! It is absolutely nothing more than Bottom or Top Fishing, and in the case of the Rat, it uses a standard 20 pip zone for buying or selling. The problem with this, is that the 20 pips "zone" is NOT a fixed variable in the market. The optimal buy/sell zone will fluctuate with the pair being traded AND the market conditions. Furthermore, if you get caught in one of these Currency Market Freight Trains moving North or South for extremely prolonged periods of time, and you are trading like a Rat, you will suffer systemic Whiplash and end up in a hospital undergoing a Spinal Tap!

Have you run this through a back-tester and produced an equity curve on the Rat methodology? Post those results and make sure you run the back-tests through vertical as well as horizontal markets.

Unless you can know with a high degree of certainty, where the Daily, Weekly, or Monthly High and/or Low is most likely to form, then you can expect nothing but Whiplash and Stopped Out trades by doing this consistently enough.

Post otherwise, if you can.

 

[Splitlink]

Are you going to sit here and tell me that trading like a Rodent, using the Rodent rules, does not cause you to be Whiplashed half to death in markets that do not have enough sideways bandwidth?

Rat trading is nothing new. Its as old as the invention of the Candlestick! It is absolutely nothing more than Bottom or Top Fishing, and in the case of the Rat, it uses a standard 20 pip zone for buying or selling. The problem with this, is that the 20 pips "zone" is NOT a fixed variable in the market. The optimal buy/sell zone will fluctuate with the pair being traded AND the market conditions. Furthermore, if you get caught in one of these Currency Market Freight Trains moving North or South for extremely prolonged periods of time, and you are trading like a Rat, you will suffer systemic Whiplash and end up in a hospital undergoing a Spinal Tap!

Have you run this through a back-tester and produced an equity curve on the Rat methodology? Post those results and make sure you run the back-tests through vertical as well as horizontal markets.

Unless you can know with a high degree of certainty, where the Daily, Weekly, or Monthly High and/or Low is most likely to form, then you can expect nothing but Whiplash and Stopped Out trades by doing this consistently enough.

Post otherwise, if you can.

I think that you have the wrong man. I don't, really, know what you are rattling on about.

 

[TheRumpledOne]

Are you going to sit here and tell me that trading like a Rodent, using the Rodent rules, does not cause you to be Whiplashed half to death in markets that do not have enough sideways bandwidth?

Rat trading is nothing new. Its as old as the invention of the Candlestick! It is absolutely nothing more than Bottom or Top Fishing, and in the case of the Rat, it uses a standard 20 pip zone for buying or selling. The problem with this, is that the 20 pips "zone" is NOT a fixed variable in the market. The optimal buy/sell zone will fluctuate with the pair being traded AND the market conditions. Furthermore, if you get caught in one of these Currency Market Freight Trains moving North or South for extremely prolonged periods of time, and you are trading like a Rat, you will suffer systemic Whiplash and end up in a hospital undergoing a Spinal Tap!

Have you run this through a back-tester and produced an equity curve on the Rat methodology? Post those results and make sure you run the back-tests through vertical as well as horizontal markets.

Unless you can know with a high degree of certainty, where the Daily, Weekly, or Monthly High and/or Low is most likely to form, then you can expect nothing but Whiplash and Stopped Out trades by doing this consistently enough.

Post otherwise, if you can.

7 years later and the RAT ZONE is still working.