I have observed an apparent 52 minute cycle operating on the S&P. Steve Copan mentioned an Intra-Day time period when he gave an interview to ClickEvents. Is it likely that the market makers in the U.S. have to signal amongst themselves where the market is likely to be going to by breaking the structure of the index into 'activity time periods' of a fixed nature.
Bigbusiness
Experienced member
- Messages
- 1,408
- Likes
- 23
I see Tom H is now selling the Delta Phenomenon book for £40. As this information once cost over £30,000 to get hold of, I estimate if the Market Matrix goes the same way, we should see it on sale for £2.66 in the future. I might be tempted then 
NedKelly
Member
- Messages
- 53
- Likes
- 1
Bigbusiness said:I see Tom H is now selling the Delta Phenomenon book for £40. As this information once cost over £30,000 to get hold of, I estimate if the Market Matrix goes the same way, we should see it on sale for £2.66 in the future. I might be tempted then
Come on , we need a time projection for the £2.66. it's no good having a price without knowing the time.
Bigbusiness said:I see Tom H is now selling the Delta Phenomenon book for £40. As this information once cost over £30,000 to get hold of, I estimate if the Market Matrix goes the same way, we should see it on sale for £2.66 in the future. I might be tempted then
Yours for a fiver or so on ebay (the book, not the MM) :cheesy:
The cost and problems of Delta
I don't know if my memory is failing me but I think that the original cost of the Delta system is getting blurred. As far as I can remember the book was originally published about 20 years ago and the cost was about the same at just over $100. It may be a bit cheaper now but as far as I know the book has never been updated much and the cost has changed pretty constant. There was a second level of membership which told you how to find out what the dates were for the lines, the colour codes for those lines and the turning points for a few years forward (all of this you could calculate for yourself with a bit of work but PCs were not that widely used at home back in the dark ages of the mid 80s). I think the cost of that second level was about $3,000. Then there was the Delta Directorship level which cost $30,000 and you were told how it all worked plus other goodies. This latter part was a limited edition and you were sworn to secrecy on the pain of death or worse. As I say , this is from memory so I am happy to be corrected on the finer points.
Now the problem with Delta, as far as I see it, is one of logic. When it was first released, the key point being driven home by Wilder and Jim Sloman(?) was that for each market there are a fixed number of turning points between the lines, with one exception (the inversion). They always have been fixed and they always will be or so they said. Now I hear that Steve Copan has a different number of turning points and may even have changed that number again since releasing the CDs. My problem with the logic is that if the Delta Phenomenon shows that the number of turning points are basically fixed ad infinitum, why do they keep changing? Steve Copan says that Delta is the foundation of his MM system. In any structure, the one thing I want to stay solid is the foundation and this "foundation" keeps moving.
I remain interested but not convinced.
I don't know if my memory is failing me but I think that the original cost of the Delta system is getting blurred. As far as I can remember the book was originally published about 20 years ago and the cost was about the same at just over $100. It may be a bit cheaper now but as far as I know the book has never been updated much and the cost has changed pretty constant. There was a second level of membership which told you how to find out what the dates were for the lines, the colour codes for those lines and the turning points for a few years forward (all of this you could calculate for yourself with a bit of work but PCs were not that widely used at home back in the dark ages of the mid 80s). I think the cost of that second level was about $3,000. Then there was the Delta Directorship level which cost $30,000 and you were told how it all worked plus other goodies. This latter part was a limited edition and you were sworn to secrecy on the pain of death or worse. As I say , this is from memory so I am happy to be corrected on the finer points.
Now the problem with Delta, as far as I see it, is one of logic. When it was first released, the key point being driven home by Wilder and Jim Sloman(?) was that for each market there are a fixed number of turning points between the lines, with one exception (the inversion). They always have been fixed and they always will be or so they said. Now I hear that Steve Copan has a different number of turning points and may even have changed that number again since releasing the CDs. My problem with the logic is that if the Delta Phenomenon shows that the number of turning points are basically fixed ad infinitum, why do they keep changing? Steve Copan says that Delta is the foundation of his MM system. In any structure, the one thing I want to stay solid is the foundation and this "foundation" keeps moving.
I remain interested but not convinced.
trendie
Legendary member
- Messages
- 6,875
- Likes
- 1,433
hi OldGreyWT,
my library loan Delta book says "The price is one hundred abd seventy-five dollars", ( published 1991 ).
Directors at that time paid $,35,000.
Anyway, OldGreyWT, I agree with you in essence about the "foundation" of Delta, and its reliability for future turning points.
But, Welles Wilder did find that the TPs did not always hit exactly, thats why he conducted an analysis, and showed the Average Range.
Also, further on in the book, he explains how the TPs can arrive early or later based on if the market was "normal", "actual", "weak" or "strong".
These factors can only be ascertained by analysing the market "on-the-day", as it were.
So, although Delta doesnt give guaranteed TPs, it allows a range, which, with a bit of analysis, can be determined. ( this supposes you can see the TPs in the first place )
I am reluctant to "force-fit" TPs, just to prove Delta, that is perhaps, why I dont get the patterns that easily.
I am willing to give it another go - later.
PS: like your id of OldGreyWT. however, your avatar is anything but a "Whispering Bob" !!
my library loan Delta book says "The price is one hundred abd seventy-five dollars", ( published 1991 ).
Directors at that time paid $,35,000.
Anyway, OldGreyWT, I agree with you in essence about the "foundation" of Delta, and its reliability for future turning points.
But, Welles Wilder did find that the TPs did not always hit exactly, thats why he conducted an analysis, and showed the Average Range.
Also, further on in the book, he explains how the TPs can arrive early or later based on if the market was "normal", "actual", "weak" or "strong".
These factors can only be ascertained by analysing the market "on-the-day", as it were.
So, although Delta doesnt give guaranteed TPs, it allows a range, which, with a bit of analysis, can be determined. ( this supposes you can see the TPs in the first place )
I am reluctant to "force-fit" TPs, just to prove Delta, that is perhaps, why I dont get the patterns that easily.
I am willing to give it another go - later.
PS: like your id of OldGreyWT. however, your avatar is anything but a "Whispering Bob" !!
Delta Phenomena & the Market Matrix
Trendie: Thanks for the comments. I have since found an interview from 1986 with WW saying that this was discovered in 1983. I think maybe I was offered the higher membership/directorship when it came out and then the book came out later. Your price seems right now I think about it. (P.S. My avatar was the nearest they had with my hair - or lack of it ).
I spoke to a trader who may have got this second or even third hand, so I would appreciate confirmation one way or the other if anyone can help. Apparently Tom H is saying on his website that the MM removes the normal date prediction error of Delta and predictions are spot on. What I was told was that this isn't on the CDs and in fact Steve Copan shows why turning points come early and late as suggested in the original book. The other thing I heard, which was a bit more worrying, was that most of the examples shown where the Fib projections hit the Delta projections spot on had a basic error. The Delta "projections" were drawn on after they were known, so it couldn't fail to be accurate on that part of the analysis. To be fair and to balance this out, I also heard that SC then made a real projection of time and price (not sure of the market) and it was supposed to be very accurate. If anyone (robster?) who has bought the course can comment on this, I would be interested.
Thanks in advance to anyone who can comment.
Trendie: Thanks for the comments. I have since found an interview from 1986 with WW saying that this was discovered in 1983. I think maybe I was offered the higher membership/directorship when it came out and then the book came out later. Your price seems right now I think about it. (P.S. My avatar was the nearest they had with my hair - or lack of it ).
I spoke to a trader who may have got this second or even third hand, so I would appreciate confirmation one way or the other if anyone can help. Apparently Tom H is saying on his website that the MM removes the normal date prediction error of Delta and predictions are spot on. What I was told was that this isn't on the CDs and in fact Steve Copan shows why turning points come early and late as suggested in the original book. The other thing I heard, which was a bit more worrying, was that most of the examples shown where the Fib projections hit the Delta projections spot on had a basic error. The Delta "projections" were drawn on after they were known, so it couldn't fail to be accurate on that part of the analysis. To be fair and to balance this out, I also heard that SC then made a real projection of time and price (not sure of the market) and it was supposed to be very accurate. If anyone (robster?) who has bought the course can comment on this, I would be interested.
Thanks in advance to anyone who can comment.
Still working on the review, just been distracted by other things at the moment.
Regarding real time projections, the only one I managed to get from Kevin was that cable was going up to 24000. Interesting considering the activity since this prediction, when cable was at 19100.
G-Man
Regarding real time projections, the only one I managed to get from Kevin was that cable was going up to 24000. Interesting considering the activity since this prediction, when cable was at 19100.
G-Man
Newcomer to the scene. I have a copy of the Delta software can anyone tell me how to get it up and running with e-signal please (I.E. how to configure it to accept the end of day data I already receive from e-signal) I would be pleased to hear from you. thanks trader93
TheBramble
Legendary member
- Messages
- 8,394
- Likes
- 1,170
Shay, Steve Copan will help you configure Delta s/w for that feed if indeed, it is possible to configure it for that feed.
Didn't you discuss this with Steve when you purchased it from him?
Didn't you discuss this with Steve when you purchased it from him?
Just curious
Who and where is 'jjmm'? One post to his name when originating this thread. You have received lots of response to your enquiry. Has it assisted you? If so how?
Who and where is 'robster4'? 68 posts, all on this thread, all promoting MM.
Be interesting to hear from anyone who has actually bought this product.
Who and where is 'jjmm'? One post to his name when originating this thread. You have received lots of response to your enquiry. Has it assisted you? If so how?
Who and where is 'robster4'? 68 posts, all on this thread, all promoting MM.
'Shiver', 4 posts. Anything to report?Shiver said:
Be interesting to hear from anyone who has actually bought this product.
NedKelly
Member
- Messages
- 53
- Likes
- 1
dsmodi said:
They are still trying to trade a continuous contract over a rollover and take the carry as a profit, as Market Matrix advertises you can do on their website with a Soybeans example.
Let's face it, this MM must be a con. Anyone who advertises with an example of a trade that could be done in this manner has no idea about trading. You are all being suckered in by the lure of the snake oil. The moderator should close this thread as it is a distraction from more sensible discussion on trading.
NedKelly
Member
- Messages
- 53
- Likes
- 1
swandro said:
Normally you win or lose the difference between your entry price and the contract settlement price X stake. I use finspreads and they allow you to roll over the contract at the mid price within a week of end of contract. Other spreadbetting companies may be different.