The Market Matrix

Smalldog2 said:
Steve Copin, was selling the original CD the market matrix at 1200 pounds a pop, I bought it together with a friend and tried to impliment it for a year only to lose, lose, lose. Forget it, now 2 years wiser I see this is not worth the paper its printed on.
Yes sometimes it appears to work, and you think wow thats amazing, but then the market will stroll through a turn like butter, no turn it did not work.
The market Matrix tries to then turn the static delta cycles into dynamic ones using calender days and traded day projections of fib numbers ie 3.5.8 etc, well in Copen's examples they work fine, but so they should he recorded the CD after the turns were made, how hard is that to do?

Now as he was pushing a duff product before with the market matrix, do you think he is suddenly got a change of heart and decided to tell the real story
NO, he decided that there are more than enough mugs out their to sell a 600 pound book to with the promise of riches (for guess who?). Picking turns at random with good stops and 300-500 pip targets will make you money, counting 5 waves then going short long whatever will make you money, see trading is not hard, but controlling your risk is, sticking in for a profit when the market goes against you is hard, most turns are three days minimum (see Gann pull back) so sticking in for big targets and closing for small loses is what makes money trading.
By far and away the best is Robert Minors Dynamic Trading, get that and the CD course and follow it, you will make money with that for sure.

Smalldog
Click to expand...

Hi Smalldog,
I agree with you that DT is a great software and the R. Miner's book is a must. Carolyn Boroden's , Fibonacci trading is also a reasonable book, borrow it from the library if you can.
I am sorry to hear that you have had a loosing experience with Matrix, I think S.Copan explanation of Delta (the first video course) has been very good. I am using Delta, the original ITD12 and together with other filters it turned out to be very profitable approach. I have been using it for over 18months. I trade exclusively GBP/USD. There has been some changes to the Matrix counts, but I am using what I have been accustom to and what works for me. I wanted to start a private thread on T2W on trading G/U with Delta and have not been able to do so, so in this aspect I have migrated to Discuss the GBP/USD with a DailyFX Analyst - Page 357 - DailyFX Forum where we discuss the various counts including Matrix. I am more at home with the counts that I work out myself, and I do not follow any particular approach blindly. There is problem with an attitude to follow the ideas of other traders without having a sence of ownership, it simply will not do. All of us have to work at our trading plan and strategy.
I wish you many good trades,
2be
 
Hi ( To all readin this Thread )are you interested to join myself?

I am a developer ( formerly into IT ). Having seen all the posts here, I am sending invites for a partial open source trading system that would be created ( by its participants ) given to the purpose of:-
1) back-testing ALL theory and practical based trading methodologies
2) given flexibility to its users ( individuals ) who may have a certain habits of trading ( according to Human Nature )
3) full-automation with the option of instant-click intervention ( should there be any serious problem with the trend ) AND
4) full portability with any data feed source ( be it in ASCII or other brokerages' data form )

Please do send myself a private e-mail if there is any interest as discussions can be carried out.

S K

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Hi there

Be one with GOD, so that HE may appoint a deliver for your Soul! -HariHaraBramKalki ( S K )


NedKelly said:
Can you give us a few accurate predictions? Better still, just give us one accurate prediction. Post it here so we can all see how accurate it is and then we will all go out and buy it.
Click to expand...
 
Agisthos said:
Yes thanks. It's great sales copy. A former oil rig worker bought a lambo with cash from using this system!!!!

Am I going crazy here or does this forum not allow you to edit posts?
Click to expand...

Don't you just love the Agora/FPSrecommends marketing copy?! I purchased Ian Williams "Trading the easy way" methodology a couple of years ago (for £97) and must have been added to a million databases at that stage because since then I've been getting about 5 offers a week through the post, more than half of them regarding trading.

I assume I could get myself removed from their records if I wanted to but I must admit that they give me such a good giggle to read that I like to have them keep coming! They're ALWAYS from people who at one time or another were 'failures' at what they did previously, they've ALL found some magic signal, method or indicator that will guarantee you make profits every time and they ALL now work for a few hours a week in their dressing gowns! I'd hate to be at a conference with all these people in their dressing gowns!

Slightly more on the sinister side, they also ALWAYS claim that it works every time and if it doesn't it is entirely your own fault.

I received one marketing letter this week that promised me I would make £30,000 in 2 days and £1 million within a year. This chap 'discovered' his method by overhearing 2 gents having a conversation on the tube and whipped straight home to try it! It's been 4 days since I read it but I'm still chuckling every now and then.

Sometimes though I'm not ashamed to admit they they can wet my apatite beyond mere amusement and Steve Copan's Pure Matrix system did that when it too arrived this week. Even if it was "only limited to 500 copies and must be purchased by midnight Sunday as it will be gone forever"!!!!!!!!!!!

So I had a look to see what I could find on the subject and google brought me here.

The thread here, dating back to 2004 where it was originally a £2,000 product, has put me straight though. In amongst the typical unhelpful comments from people with too much time on their hands (trying to ocupy themselves elsewhere to prevent overtrading?) the general message seems to be that it can work if you put a very large amount of effort in and are able to both think multi-dimentionally and apply the methods correctly (we're back to the 'if you fail it's your own fault' bit). But ultimately, as highlighted mostly by Robster in the earlier threads, it doesn't work spectactuarly and takes a lot of time to master.

I'm sure many of you will have seen Ian William's system but for those who don't it involves very little more than a moving average crossover as it's signal and he makes no apologies for it's symplicity but instead suggests that those who require to make it any more complicated are wasting their time. I never actually did try it out live in the end but I know that it works at least 50% of the time and where winners are likely to net you 200 to 300 points profit each time and losses more likely to be restricted to 20 to 30 points at most due to his trailing stop rules then 50% is more than adiquate.

So effectively it seems we have 2 systems for trading, both at either end of the difficulty scale. But from what I've read here I doubt the Pure Matrix will be any more or less successful than Trading the easy way, but with an incredible amount more work involved.

I'd still be interested in anyone using the Matrix system and how they're getting on though...
 
dynamic trader 5 software

:clap: does anyone know where i can buy a used copy of dynamic trader EoD or realtime software? version 4 or above?
 
You can get even cheaper Market Matrix CD's at Torrentz.com (For free)
... Giggity Giggity.
 
Save your money, the cd's are worthless, the private board are full of noobs trying to guess the turning points and constantly failing, when Copan did bother to turn up, he was wrong too, LOL.
 
I've spent a fair amount of time looking at the Market Matrix system recently and it looks impressive in theory.
However there are a number of inconsistancies in the videos and the book that I've found.
The biggest one for me is chart 17 in the book, page 34. This shows a series of MC2 points.
One of Steve Copans rules is that within the bigger timeframe, you can never have more
than 3 delta highs in a row unless one of them is an inversion point.
This chart appears to break that rule by having MC2 points 1,3,5 & 7 as 4 highs in a row which
get consecutively higher - none of which is an inversion.
Have I missed an exception to this rule or has the rule been broken here ?

Appreciate any insights into this.

DeeGee
 
DeeGee I haven't traded w/ the market matrix yet but am still studying it to see if its of any use. hehe still going through this thread to see what other people think of it.

Regarding your question, Chart 17 does follow the rules. If you keep reading on in the book, you'll see how such a case is handled. What happens here is 12 is a MC3 low. Then, either 3 is going to be another MC3 high, 4 and MC3 low and 7 an MC3 high OR 5 is going to be an MC3 high, 6 and MC3 low, 7 an MC3 high. So when they say "3 matrix points in a row" they don't mean "the fourth matrix point in the other direction will go lower / higher than the second matrix point". All they mean is If you have three matrix points in a low with none of the points in a series being an inversion, then the third point MUST be a point in the higher timeframe.

Hope that clears things up?

Although I agree with you on the inconsistencies. I haven't found many but did find one. One of the slides in the video (don't remember which one) had 5 matrix points in a cycle which is not allowed ... kinda annoyed me seeing that :(
 
Last edited:
Smalldog2 said:
Steve Copin, was selling the original CD the market matrix at 1200 pounds a pop, I bought it together with a friend and tried to impliment it for a year only to lose, lose, lose. Forget it, now 2 years wiser I see this is not worth the paper its printed on.
Yes sometimes it appears to work, and you think wow thats amazing, but then the market will stroll through a turn like butter, no turn it did not work.
The market Matrix tries to then turn the static delta cycles into dynamic ones using calender days and traded day projections of fib numbers ie 3.5.8 etc, well in Copen's examples they work fine, but so they should he recorded the CD after the turns were made, how hard is that to do?

Now as he was pushing a duff product before with the market matrix, do you think he is suddenly got a change of heart and decided to tell the real story
NO, he decided that there are more than enough mugs out their to sell a 600 pound book to with the promise of riches (for guess who?). Picking turns at random with good stops and 300-500 pip targets will make you money, counting 5 waves then going short long whatever will make you money, see trading is not hard, but controlling your risk is, sticking in for a profit when the market goes against you is hard, most turns are three days minimum (see Gann pull back) so sticking in for big targets and closing for small loses is what makes money trading.
By far and away the best is Robert Minors Dynamic Trading, get that and the CD course and follow it, you will make money with that for sure.

Smalldog
Click to expand...

Nice post Smalldog.

Yeah I'm using Miner's DT approach as well ... it is quite good ... reliable, consistent and makes sense.

And I sorta agree w/ u on the matrix stuff to. Haven't traded with it ... but started paper trading (lol using the "training mode" in DT as it so happens :p) a few weeks ago to see how the deal is. I do find the turning points occur; but two problems:
1) Sometimes they're so miniscule a turning, it feels like im forcing a pivot point there just cuz "its due"
2) With retrospect, its easy to see the matrix points ... however, as the bars develop, unless I use an indicator w/ OB & OS points (which I haven't tried but I suspect will make things easier) its hard predicting the points.

But still going to try paper trading and see how it goes.
 
Thanks for your reply fork4k.

You are of course absolutely right. The 3 highs in a row rule only applies if they are contained within the bigger time frame.

Today I've been looking at volume 2 part 2 of the video again.
This is the bit about fib extensions and how to look for a fib ratio to pinpoint the price when the target date is approaching.
In the last 4 minutes of part 2, he shows us an example of how the price approaches the target date and hits a 0.618 fib "right on the nose". What he appears to neglect to tell us is that the plotted MC points are "actual" points and not "theoretical".
His 0.618 fib is actually first hit a week earlier and from what I've seen of the accuracy of his projected MC points this could have been the "real" point. You just wouldn't know at the time.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that it looks ok for swing trading with wide stops, but his claim to have hit it "on the nose" is stretching it a little bit.

It would be good to bring this thread to life and bounce ideas around.
This is my current view of the S&P
http://yfrog.com/3musspx500daily04mar10p

DeeGee
 
:confused:I have learned absolutely nothing from reading this thread. the question is:

:?::rolleyes: Has anybody any experience with THE MARKET MATRIX created by Steve Copan,?... :confused:

Any replies?
 
Truth Seeker said:
Save your money, the cd's are worthless, the private board are full of noobs trying to guess the turning points and constantly failing, when Copan did bother to turn up, he was wrong too, LOL.
Click to expand...

LOL

CD #3 isnt worthless though....Matrix CD #3 has the valuable fibonacci and trading day information which makes Delta the most formidable cycle system Ive seen, better than Hurst, better than the Spiral Calendar.

eBay has all 3 CD's selling for $72.75...

http://cgi.ebay.com/Market-Matrix-3...tem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item3cae1789e5
 
Cleogold said:
:confused:I have learned absolutely nothing from reading this thread. the question is:

:?::rolleyes: Has anybody any experience with THE MARKET MATRIX created by Steve Copan,?... :confused:

Any replies?
Click to expand...

Matrix Delta uses fibonacci confluences to pin point the turns. If you want to calculate turn dates its a good system.

My read of Matrix now is we are heading higher into point #3 ITD high due June 24, 2010.
 

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Buy The Dips said:
LOL

CD #3 isnt worthless though....Matrix CD #3 has the valuable fibonacci and trading day information which makes Delta the most formidable cycle system Ive seen, better than Hurst, better than the Spiral Calendar.

eBay has all 3 CD's selling for $72.75...

http://cgi.ebay.com/Market-Matrix-3...tem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item3cae1789e5
Click to expand...

I am a cynic, and a conspiracy theorist.

If you look at that ebay listing and check out the sellers feedback, it seems that his whole raison d'etre is to sell Market Matrix books and Nexus CD's etc. If you check out where Olney is, which is in Bucks, it is a stones throw from Willington in Beds which is where Copan is based. Willington is just a few miles from Elm Farm Industrial Estate which just happens to be very similar to the sellers surname, Elmer. I wonder if they are all something to do with Elm Trader!!!!!!!! Wouldn't that be a real conspiracy.
 
Hello,
if someone wants Market Matrix book or 3 cd set, PM me.
Good price.

Best,
Tom
 
Hello,
I would like to participate in an active Market Matrix thread. I could wish there was one here! Does anyone know of an active thread somewhere or are there others willing to be involved here? I have subscribed to Copan's site in the past but longer wish to hand out loads of dosh to the told the bleeding obvious. Sadly, not subscribing divorces me from other Matrix users and I had hoped to find some here.

I use the Matrix but I don't rely on it as my sole indicator - I'd be a fool to - but I do find it useful and it suits my style of trading (daily - longer term).

Regards,

Andrew
 
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