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I often watch the Gannets gliding around and eyeing up their prey from far above the harbour here in Wellington. A great sea bird with spectacular, flying dynamics coupled with impeccable vision, which when combined produces an impressive hunting and killing machine.
Crows are impressive in their own right too, albeit from perhaps a more opportunistic stance. Carrion crows are skillfully adept at "bullying" others by sheer force of numbers, and then fighting amongst themselves for the prize. Most come away with something - and some do very well - whilst others are left waiting for the next opportunity.
This animal lesson is interesting to me, in that both seem perhaps at odds with the situation they find themselves in. The Gannet is concerned to be land-locked so to speak (but certainly has his eye on things
), and the Crow may have the toast for now, but certainly feels isolated and hence vulnerable. A standoff ensues, and the Gannet comes away better off, but with a less than typical display of inate hunting ability!
I wonder which one was really "at home" here?
Crows are impressive in their own right too, albeit from perhaps a more opportunistic stance. Carrion crows are skillfully adept at "bullying" others by sheer force of numbers, and then fighting amongst themselves for the prize. Most come away with something - and some do very well - whilst others are left waiting for the next opportunity.
This animal lesson is interesting to me, in that both seem perhaps at odds with the situation they find themselves in. The Gannet is concerned to be land-locked so to speak (but certainly has his eye on things
), and the Crow may have the toast for now, but certainly feels isolated and hence vulnerable. A standoff ensues, and the Gannet comes away better off, but with a less than typical display of inate hunting ability!I wonder which one was really "at home" here?
SOCRATES
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Hello Quercus,
I have just come in here for a minute.......I will be adding to this in the morning.
I dont know what the life span of a crow is but I have been told that the life span of a
Gannet is 30 years. The Crow is a land locked bird, aggressive, bad tempered,clumsy.
The Gannet is a graceful creature, flies like a Spitfire, is able to take advantage of
thermals, glides about effortlessly, watching everything from a great height and, what is
more, interpreting everything correctly. Its sense of timing is perfect. I have seen one
snatch an ice cream from someone walking along on the sea front. The gannets
here form their nests on chimney stacks and mate for life. And you always know
when a limited company has been formed because the pair in question spend
yours close together pecking and preening and squawing in chorus, and what is
more interesting is that they stand side by side on the rooftops each balancing on
one leg ! Apparently they do this to rest the other leg. Their knee joints bend the
opposite way to ours, and that is the difference. Lewis Carroll forgot to mention
this in his book, so I am mentioning it here.
In addition, the Gannet is a very "adaptable" flyer. It is just at home on land as it is
at sea. And they fly fast also, I can tell you because I happen to know they can
fly at more than 15 knots (in another post if you remind me I will tell you how).
They are able to behave like seaplanes or not. Can you just imagine what a Spitfire
Seaplane might be like had it existed ? Floats one minute, wheels the next....
Every thing said and done there is a lot to be learnt from this, although the 3 dunces
would not agree. Watch it ! They are hovering ? No. One is not watching, as he does not
consider all of this to be relevant. The other one knows better and has gone off
with a big ladder and a bucket to work on a building site somewhere so we may
get some peace and quiet for a few days and the other one is looking but is so
baffled because he cannot keep up and knows that anyone who misbehaves is
shot down immediately that all three are quiet but with an air of uncertainty about
them.
You Just consider that where you are, our gannets are asleep while yours are
flying....(this is guaranteed to enrage the dunces !) .........then while yours are
asleep ours are flying upside down, and the Gannets where China lives
are flying sideways all the while. Is this not marvellous ? Does this in itself not
lead us also to another realisation:~ that is, all good things come in threes,
this is right up the street of certain gentlemen and ladies who are devoted to
ratios, and suchlike esoterica.
The number three is very importantyou see, even to the extraordinary relevance
that there are always three dunces in attendance on this thread.
And no, the Court Jester (this is will further infuriate the dunces, particularly the one with the
ladder) is not a dunce, he is a very naughty boy and we miss him. Let us see
if he promises to behave appropriately we might be able to get him back, because
notwithstanding the previous, I am sure all darkside friends and colleagues will agree
we need someone to crack a joke or do a pirouette from time to time in order to
add colour to these heavy discussions that many read and few fully understand.
OOOOH ! By the way, earlier on I mentioned China White and his Gannets over there.
His comments appear in the next posting.
This is NOT futurology. It is just a coincidence of sequence.
Now over to you, China, what do you have to say M8 ?
I have just come in here for a minute.......I will be adding to this in the morning.
I dont know what the life span of a crow is but I have been told that the life span of a
Gannet is 30 years. The Crow is a land locked bird, aggressive, bad tempered,clumsy.
The Gannet is a graceful creature, flies like a Spitfire, is able to take advantage of
thermals, glides about effortlessly, watching everything from a great height and, what is
more, interpreting everything correctly. Its sense of timing is perfect. I have seen one
snatch an ice cream from someone walking along on the sea front. The gannets
here form their nests on chimney stacks and mate for life. And you always know
when a limited company has been formed because the pair in question spend
yours close together pecking and preening and squawing in chorus, and what is
more interesting is that they stand side by side on the rooftops each balancing on
one leg ! Apparently they do this to rest the other leg. Their knee joints bend the
opposite way to ours, and that is the difference. Lewis Carroll forgot to mention
this in his book, so I am mentioning it here.
In addition, the Gannet is a very "adaptable" flyer. It is just at home on land as it is
at sea. And they fly fast also, I can tell you because I happen to know they can
fly at more than 15 knots (in another post if you remind me I will tell you how).
They are able to behave like seaplanes or not. Can you just imagine what a Spitfire
Seaplane might be like had it existed ? Floats one minute, wheels the next....
Every thing said and done there is a lot to be learnt from this, although the 3 dunces
would not agree. Watch it ! They are hovering ? No. One is not watching, as he does not
consider all of this to be relevant. The other one knows better and has gone off
with a big ladder and a bucket to work on a building site somewhere so we may
get some peace and quiet for a few days and the other one is looking but is so
baffled because he cannot keep up and knows that anyone who misbehaves is
shot down immediately that all three are quiet but with an air of uncertainty about
them.
You Just consider that where you are, our gannets are asleep while yours are
flying....(this is guaranteed to enrage the dunces !) .........then while yours are
asleep ours are flying upside down, and the Gannets where China lives
are flying sideways all the while. Is this not marvellous ? Does this in itself not
lead us also to another realisation:~ that is, all good things come in threes,
this is right up the street of certain gentlemen and ladies who are devoted to
ratios, and suchlike esoterica.
The number three is very importantyou see, even to the extraordinary relevance
that there are always three dunces in attendance on this thread.
And no, the Court Jester (this is will further infuriate the dunces, particularly the one with the
ladder) is not a dunce, he is a very naughty boy and we miss him. Let us see
if he promises to behave appropriately we might be able to get him back, because
notwithstanding the previous, I am sure all darkside friends and colleagues will agree
we need someone to crack a joke or do a pirouette from time to time in order to
add colour to these heavy discussions that many read and few fully understand.
OOOOH ! By the way, earlier on I mentioned China White and his Gannets over there.
His comments appear in the next posting.
This is NOT futurology. It is just a coincidence of sequence.
Now over to you, China, what do you have to say M8 ?
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china white
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and now another angle to Socrates's excellent animal lesson.
assume there are 2 scenarios:
1) exactly what Socrates described with 1 crow and 1 gannet.
2) now seemingly same thing - BUT there is another crow further away to whom the first crow owes something, say loads of food.
same actions - but wudnt u say that the 1st crow pulled the best performance possible in front of the 2nd crow in case 2)?
history analogy - u know I've got a soft spot for it - Churchill promised to Stalin to open the "Second Front" in 1942 which he obviously did not want to do. What does he do? he sends 6000 strong Canadian force onto the Continent, the gannet (Germans) pounces on them and aniihilates them - did the crow No 1 lose? No - Stalin got the idea that Churshill sincerely wants but just CANNOT land in France, and increases purchases of Churchill and Vallentine tanks for the Red Army. Churchill gets the dosh and a 2 yrs of leeway......
Do u see how U HAVE TO VIEW PRICE-VOLUME IN CONTEXT? very primitively speaking, what is a fake break-out in one set of circumstances (come on buy a bit more so we can offload higher) is manipulating cooling off in another (we'll be selling a bit, so u start shorting so we can buy back from u at a better price to rock'n'roll).
assume there are 2 scenarios:
1) exactly what Socrates described with 1 crow and 1 gannet.
2) now seemingly same thing - BUT there is another crow further away to whom the first crow owes something, say loads of food.
same actions - but wudnt u say that the 1st crow pulled the best performance possible in front of the 2nd crow in case 2)?
history analogy - u know I've got a soft spot for it - Churchill promised to Stalin to open the "Second Front" in 1942 which he obviously did not want to do. What does he do? he sends 6000 strong Canadian force onto the Continent, the gannet (Germans) pounces on them and aniihilates them - did the crow No 1 lose? No - Stalin got the idea that Churshill sincerely wants but just CANNOT land in France, and increases purchases of Churchill and Vallentine tanks for the Red Army. Churchill gets the dosh and a 2 yrs of leeway......
Do u see how U HAVE TO VIEW PRICE-VOLUME IN CONTEXT? very primitively speaking, what is a fake break-out in one set of circumstances (come on buy a bit more so we can offload higher) is manipulating cooling off in another (we'll be selling a bit, so u start shorting so we can buy back from u at a better price to rock'n'roll).
The crow has arrived in his situation by chancing on the roll and moving to what he felt would be a safer higher position. The gannet sees that the crow is uncomfortable and is an opportunist. He is also on "home" ground. He has webbed feet on a steeply slanting roof. He can wait until the crow must address his awkward situation. He makes the crow aware of his presence. He then takes full advantage when the self-concious crow is "forced" to move.
Trader333
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Another point in the story that has come to me is that the crow allowed emotion to affect what happened to him. It would be more appropriate to ignore the feelings and work on a plan for how to avoid a similar outcome in the future. The crow could then practice it so as to know what to do exactly should a similar situation arise.
The gannet also knew that by intimidating the crow the crow felt the need to act when it should have done nothing.
Paul
The gannet also knew that by intimidating the crow the crow felt the need to act when it should have done nothing.
Paul
Rognvald
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Here's my take on the lesson
“The gannet, has a 1.8 m wingspan & is the largest seabird breeding in UK waters. It feeds primarily on surface-dwelling fish such as herring and mackerel that are taken by diving from heights up to about 43 m and plummeting into the water at great speed and considerable force. The bird’s skull is especially strong, and a system of air sacs also helps to absorb the shock of these plunges”
The gannet is a much larger bird than the crow and has a fearsome beak. It normally flies high above the sea looking down for its prey that attacks in swoops from about 120 ft up. It dives at high speed and its diving speed is increased by it furling its wings behind it to make it more aerodynamic and faster through the air
It would be unusual to see a gannet on a rooftop as described but Socrates has correctly described how the gannet would flop down the steep roof.
In one sense I would suggest that the crow was unlucky. However – it was intimidated solely by the size and appearance of the gannet and, although the gannet took no action to make it do anything, it was frightened into an action that resulted in it losing its prize.
The gannet was out of its accustomed environment and flopped down the roof slope but was neverthelessable to take the toast from the crow.
In another sense the crow was lucky – why - well it was crow and had a chance to make a decision and do the right thing. If it had been a fish quietly swimming along it would have known nothing when the gannets bill travelling at high speed speared it.
The crow was embarrassed. We do not know whether the embarassment would translate into learning a lesson but as humans we can learn the lesson
“The gannet, has a 1.8 m wingspan & is the largest seabird breeding in UK waters. It feeds primarily on surface-dwelling fish such as herring and mackerel that are taken by diving from heights up to about 43 m and plummeting into the water at great speed and considerable force. The bird’s skull is especially strong, and a system of air sacs also helps to absorb the shock of these plunges”
The gannet is a much larger bird than the crow and has a fearsome beak. It normally flies high above the sea looking down for its prey that attacks in swoops from about 120 ft up. It dives at high speed and its diving speed is increased by it furling its wings behind it to make it more aerodynamic and faster through the air
It would be unusual to see a gannet on a rooftop as described but Socrates has correctly described how the gannet would flop down the steep roof.
In one sense I would suggest that the crow was unlucky. However – it was intimidated solely by the size and appearance of the gannet and, although the gannet took no action to make it do anything, it was frightened into an action that resulted in it losing its prize.
The gannet was out of its accustomed environment and flopped down the roof slope but was neverthelessable to take the toast from the crow.
In another sense the crow was lucky – why - well it was crow and had a chance to make a decision and do the right thing. If it had been a fish quietly swimming along it would have known nothing when the gannets bill travelling at high speed speared it.
The crow was embarrassed. We do not know whether the embarassment would translate into learning a lesson but as humans we can learn the lesson
Attachments
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barjon
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As an observer of this scenario the rationale of my conscious mind would inhibit intuitive signals from my subconscious. I know that the gannet is a palearctic seabird which never comes to land except to breed and would never appear on a garage roof. My mind would be pre-occupied with this strange phenomenon and I wouldn't hear my subconscious mind screaming "it's gonna get the toast".
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TheBramble
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Animal Lesson #5
The importance of undivided attention and intent.
Additionally, taking your 'lunch' when and where you find it. (This applies to both the Crow - who did not - and the Gannet, who did).
SOCRATES said:
The importance of undivided attention and intent.
Additionally, taking your 'lunch' when and where you find it. (This applies to both the Crow - who did not - and the Gannet, who did).
Rognvald
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China
Your second scenario
Yes he did the best he could in
1 Trying to get what he wanted – the bread
2 Trying to persuade the 2nd crow that he was preserving it for him
As a result gannet will go easy on crows until he needs another piece of food.
But perspective comes into this – the gannet would have taken from either or any crow. And they would mostly have reacted in the same way.
The crows had two perspectives and they were probably both going to lose lunch as a result
Crow 1 lost direct as a result of his own mistake
Crow 2 lost as a result of a mistake of another and suffered the consequences
The value in this is that having taken a position the gannet is able to take advantage of anyhing that come along in sght of that position - it can wait for whatever comes along and take advantage of its size to frighten others into unwise actions
What we need to learn is CONTEXT and PERSPECTIVE – thanks!
Your second scenario
Yes he did the best he could in
1 Trying to get what he wanted – the bread
2 Trying to persuade the 2nd crow that he was preserving it for him
As a result gannet will go easy on crows until he needs another piece of food.
But perspective comes into this – the gannet would have taken from either or any crow. And they would mostly have reacted in the same way.
The crows had two perspectives and they were probably both going to lose lunch as a result
Crow 1 lost direct as a result of his own mistake
Crow 2 lost as a result of a mistake of another and suffered the consequences
The value in this is that having taken a position the gannet is able to take advantage of anyhing that come along in sght of that position - it can wait for whatever comes along and take advantage of its size to frighten others into unwise actions
What we need to learn is CONTEXT and PERSPECTIVE – thanks!
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SOCRATES
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OOOOH ! Rognavald, I think you have confused a Gannet with a Cormorant.Rognvald said:
The Cormorant does the diving from a great height.
In the Navy a Cormorant is called a Cormorant and what land people (landlubbers)
call a Seagull is what is called a Gannet.
Therefore I am sorry to have confused you all.
Those of you who are sailors a Seagull is a Gannet.
Those of you who are not sailors a Gannet is a Seagull.
And whether you are a sailor or not, a Cormorant is a Cormorant.
And if you are an amphibious person either will do.
Aplogies for the confusion caused
Some of these nautical things can be very confusing.
Like the Sextant for example;
All sextants have errors on the graduated arc.the rule is:~
when calculating a reading after having carried out an observation,,
"when its off , its on,
and when its off its on"
This is a frightful riddle to anyone who is not a navigator,
and thankfully is not relevant to this discussion, but I thought I would mention it as a curiosity
Are any of you Yachtsmen BTW ?
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Rognvald
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I dont think the exact avian detail is so very important Socrates althogh I do know very well the difference between gulls, cormorants and gannets.
I think that what you were getting across (and did) is the consequence of certain behaviours as a result of the different birds' perceptions? I think though that you still have something to add that we have missed - am I right?
I think that what you were getting across (and did) is the consequence of certain behaviours as a result of the different birds' perceptions? I think though that you still have something to add that we have missed - am I right?
Although the exact avian detail is unimportant, for the record a Gannet (Morus bassanus) is different from a gull (family Larus).
This probably explains why barjon says Gannets never come ashore particularly at Goring On Thames.
Regards
bracke
This probably explains why barjon says Gannets never come ashore particularly at Goring On Thames.
Regards
bracke
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Glenn
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"Gannets never come ashore particularly at Goring On Thames."
As we appear to be on a grail-type thread, this all reminded me of Monty Python and the Holy Grail - Swallow and coconut discussion.
www.mwscomp.com/movies/grail/grail-01.htm
Apologies for this interruption, just couldn't resist
Glenn
As we appear to be on a grail-type thread, this all reminded me of Monty Python and the Holy Grail - Swallow and coconut discussion.
www.mwscomp.com/movies/grail/grail-01.htm
Apologies for this interruption, just couldn't resist
Glenn
Rognvald
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- wonderful - "age shall not wither nor custom stale"Can we get back to the quest please
Glenn said:"Gannets never come ashore particularly at Goring On Thames."
As we appear to be on a grail-type thread, this all reminded me of Monty Python and the Holy Grail - Swallow and coconut discussion.
www.mwscomp.com/movies/grail/grail-01.htm
Apologies for this interruption, just couldn't resist
Glenn
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