The Edge Trading System

[ronfalcone]

lol.. just had a look at the system... seems to be all about divergance.. nothing new here.

looks a bit bobbins really...

I've looked at The Edge charts and without actually having bought the system, believe I know what some of it is about based on the divergences in my own MACD and stochastic inputs and the Edge's charts own buy and sell signals; that the two match up perfectly is no coincidence, nor any surprise.

Long story short: when price is making lower highs or lower lows BUT indicators are making higher lows or higher highs (diverging), you place a long entry. [not sure what her criteria are for shorts, but probably something opposite?]. This isn't a useless approach and does generate winning trades. But here's the rub: in order to acheive the 75% win rate she talks about, you've got to trade multiple times throughout the day---every day. 6-10 trades wouldn't be uncommon on the YM or ES. While doable, this is an extremely stressfull, tedious approach to trading and incurs huge commission costs as well as time constraints. In other words, you really have to work hard for your money and you must be chained to the monitor all day or the system won't work.

I don't believe the course developer is trying to deceive anyone, however the 75% "win rate" is a play on words used by many in the trading industry. In other words, on any ONE trade, you are not necessarily going to acheive a 75% win rate. In fact, you might lose the first 2 trades then leave to go to the dentist and find yourself down 20 points on the YM or 4 points on the ES. So to avoid that unpleasant issue, you would have to now trade the rest of the day; the more you trade, the more the odds will be in your favor. Kind of like a winning-by-brute force tactic. Keep sending in soldiers for every one that falls and eventually, you'll outNUMBER the enemy. Again, while doable, not a very smart or tactical approach, but that's my opinion.

This somewhat reminds me of the Martindale gambling system where you double up on each bet every time you lose and keep doubling until you finally hit the winner; you've now 'cost averaged' your losses to compensate and pull in some profit. But trading shouldn't be gambling. Also reminds me of Claybrug's CYCLONE approach to the S&P---a mechanical black box system where you can experience significant drawdowns, but will 'eventually' win if you take "every trade." Give me a break! Anyone could claim more winners than losers if they traded long enough and used enough leverage and a few diverging signals! (And Clayburg has the nerve to charge like 4 thoudand UDS for his system).

So stay cautious and trust no one at first meeting,

Ron in sunny and balmy Central Florida where the girls are so perty................

 

[Paulus]

Looked at but havnt bought ..hmm

But here's the rub: in order to acheive the 75% win rate she talks about, you've got to trade multiple times throughout the day

Wrong .. Its on 1 time frame with use of another time frame for confirmation of the original signal very occasional.

this is an extremely stressfull, tedious approach to trading and incurs huge commission costs as well as time constraints. In other words, you really have to work hard for your money and you must be chained to the monitor all day or the system won't work.

Again rubbish .. its the most stress free system ive used in 8yrs of trading,work hard..hmm if you mean i click a mouse now and then then yes I work hard.

Chained to the PC .. we all are to a certain degree its the medium we use to earn our living.I dont moind sitting in front of the PC for 3-4 hrs a day ..prehaps you prefer to dig a hole in the road for 10yrs a day in the pouring rain...I dont know ?

Give me a break! Anyone could claim more winners than losers if they traded long enough and used enough leverage and a few diverging signals!

Of course figures and statistics can be manipulated Ive personaly had 6 losing days in the last 2months.Im happy with that esp when the sum total of the points lost doesnt total the largets winning day i had in those 2 months.

This post seems like another moan from a none trader ..and to guess at what a system offers and then using that guess work to slag a system off is actually quite pathetic

Ron in sunny and balmy Central Florida where the girls are so perty................[/


prehaps you spent looking to long at the girls its turned your mind

Paul ..Uk

I've looked at The Edge charts and without actually having bought the system, believe I know what some of it is about based on the divergences in my own MACD and stochastic inputs and the Edge's charts own buy and sell signals; that the two match up perfectly is no coincidence, nor any surprise.

Long story short: when price is making lower highs or lower lows BUT indicators are making higher lows or higher highs (diverging), you place a long entry. [not sure what her criteria are for shorts, but probably something opposite?]. This isn't a useless approach and does generate winning trades. But here's the rub: in order to acheive the 75% win rate she talks about, you've got to trade multiple times throughout the day---every day. 6-10 trades wouldn't be uncommon on the YM or ES. While doable, this is an extremely stressfull, tedious approach to trading and incurs huge commission costs as well as time constraints. In other words, you really have to work hard for your money and you must be chained to the monitor all day or the system won't work.

I don't believe the course developer is trying to deceive anyone, however the 75% "win rate" is a play on words used by many in the trading industry. In other words, on any ONE trade, you are not necessarily going to acheive a 75% win rate. In fact, you might lose the first 2 trades then leave to go to the dentist and find yourself down 20 points on the YM or 4 points on the ES. So to avoid that unpleasant issue, you would have to now trade the rest of the day; the more you trade, the more the odds will be in your favor. Kind of like a winning-by-brute force tactic. Keep sending in soldiers for every one that falls and eventually, you'll outNUMBER the enemy. Again, while doable, not a very smart or tactical approach, but that's my opinion.

This somewhat reminds me of the Martindale gambling system where you double up on each bet every time you lose and keep doubling until you finally hit the winner; you've now 'cost averaged' your losses to compensate and pull in some profit. But trading shouldn't be gambling. Also reminds me of Claybrug's CYCLONE approach to the S&P---a mechanical black box system where you can experience significant drawdowns, but will 'eventually' win if you take "every trade." Give me a break! Anyone could claim more winners than losers if they traded long enough and used enough leverage and a few diverging signals! (And Clayburg has the nerve to charge like 4 thoudand UDS for his system).

So stay cautious and trust no one at first meeting,

Ron in sunny and balmy Central Florida where the girls are so perty................

 

[Directional]

Ron in sunny and balmy Central Florida where the girls are so perty................

Ron - did you mean pert? or pretty? or both :cheesy:

 

[knorrie]

Is anyone trading this system successfully on daily/weekly charts?

KenN

 

[Babu]

The Edge System

I am trading this system for futures intraday and currencies , exhange traded funds and stocks end of day. The results have been outstanding. I have maintained a better than 75% return on futures trading (1 and 3 min) and higher than that on end of day. I used the system on the XLE to time my exit out of oil stocks on Oct 4 which was nothing short of brilliant timing. Overall this is the best system I have ever used and I have been around the block a few times.

The service the developer gives is outstanding. Two or three times a week she sends out fully marked up charts detailing entries, exits, what to watch for ande other things of interest. This obviously takes a lot of time and is an extra that she does for nothing.

 

[knorrie]

Thanks for that Babu. The reason I ask is that I've been successfully trading a divergence system on YM intraday part-time for the last 15 months or so, but have failed dismally to translate this into a working EOD system on anything (stocks or indices). And I need to switch to longer time frames as I am getting fewer opportunities to day-trade right now.

Without giving too much away, as this is proprietary, would it be possible for you to put up a couple of EOD trade examples/charts?

Thanks
KenN

 

[ronfalcone]

This post seems like another moan from a none trader ..and to guess at what a system offers and then using that guess work to slag a system off is actually quite pathetic

Ron in sunny and balmy Central Florida where the girls are so perty................[/


prehaps you spent looking to long at the girls its turned your mind

Paul ..Uk[/QUOTE]

Paul, is your juvenile sarcasm limited to the anonymity of the internet, or a product of your age perhaps? Tell me, would you have the same rudeness if we were sitting in a bar together and having a friendly discussion? It's so easy to be rude when you're risk of getting throttled is null and void isn't it? Or perhaps, you are a representative of The Edge trading system because, boy, you sure seem to plug this system every waking chance you get.

Please, in the future, limit your criticisms to posters' inaccuracies about said subject being discussed; but don't make personal accusations as to the competence of one's personal trading experience okay? For the record, I've been trading 4 years, have traded over 1,000 trades for a cumulative expenditure of roughly $1 million USD and I'm still in the game.

Ron

 

[ronfalcone]

Different time frames

I am trading this system for futures intraday and currencies , exhange traded funds and stocks end of day. The results have been outstanding. I have maintained a better than 75% return on futures trading (1 and 3 min) and higher than that on end of day. I used the system on the XLE to time my exit out of oil stocks on Oct 4 which was nothing short of brilliant timing. Overall this is the best system I have ever used and I have been around the block a few times.


When you say different time frames, are you saying different charts with say 1 and 3 minute being used for corroboration? If so, this reminds me somewhat of what Mel Raiman does with his Precision Trading System. He uses 15, 5 and 3 minute overlays of charts using a linear regression platform, looking for overssold and overbought conditions and confirmation on the charts.

Nice post and it does sound quite promising.

Ron

 

[ronfalcone]

Ron - did you mean pert? or pretty? or both :cheesy:

only "pretty". As the Campbell soup ad used to say on old American television, "mm, mm, good!"

 

[ronfalcone]

<But here's the rub: in order to acheive the 75% win rate she talks about, you've got to trade multiple times throughout the day[/COLOR]

Wrong .. Its on 1 time frame with use of another time frame for confirmation of the original signal very occasional.>

Her website says you can expect 6-10 trades per day. I'm not talking about the time frame per se, but the amount of trades generated. Those are her words. Anyone?

 

[Babu]

Juvenile Sarcasm

Ron,I must say I am afraid you are the one guilty of juvenile sarcasm. Your comments about a 75% win rate being a "play on words" is totally ridiculous. Anyone knowing anything about number theory knows that yes we often do have to go to the dentist, but it is not going to affect our win rate for heaven sake! Listen up,75% of trades turn out to be winners on this system, period.

Secondly, your comparison of this system (even thought you know nothing about it it) to the Martingale gambling system is totally hilarious and not even relevant to the conversation.

Thirdly, slamming "Paulus" for correcting your misinformation about the system is totally juvenile. He was trying to provide accurate information about a system that someone had legitimate inquiries about. You, however, seem only interested in grandstanding and spouting off about something you know absolutely nothing about!

In answer to "Knorrie" yes I will put up a few charts for you when I figure out how to do it on here.

 

[Babu]

Further, I dont trade multiple time frames and yes there are 6-10 trades per day.

 

[ronfalcone]

< Anyone knowing anything about number theory knows that yes we often do have to go to the dentist, but it is not going to affect our win rate for heaven sake! Listen up,75% of trades turn out to be winners on this system, period. >

Oh 'cmon, are you serious or what? I'm not comparing The Edge to going to the dentist. I may be stupid but not THAT stupid. Here, let me make it simpler for you: the Edge website appears to espouse a scalping technique (I'm only repeating what the site is telling me) that requires 6 or more trades per day---several of which can be losers. Thus, by trading more rather than less, you insure a better accuracy rate for the system; it's a common theme used by many different trading systems. Not necessarily bad, but a question of style that I personally don't adhere to.

<Thirdly, slamming "Paulus" for correcting your misinformation about the system is totally juvenile>

did you carefully READ my post sir? Please, READ READ READ it. I said I would gladly accept criticism by 'Paulus' for any inaccuracies I may have expressed on the system, but that I didn't appreciate personal attacks on being a "non trader." So please, know from whence you speak.

 

[ronfalcone]

An open request and comment to all

Let me make one more point for all to contemplate which I feel is extremely important in this (as well as other discussions).

I and others have been accused of knowing nothing about "The Edge" and making judgmental comments about it. I acknowledge that this may be true; and yes, I and others may have spoken out of line or made statements from whence we were not informed enough to make such statements. So to this end I apologize. But hear me out further.

There are several traders who are insisting that The Edge works and that it is a valuable system. So what we have, basically, are two groups of commentators: doubters and believers But why are the doubters getting attacked? You can't fault them since they don't have any proof whatsoever that the believers' claims are accurate and true.

In short, I believe the onus of proof lies with the believers or proponents of a particular system---in this case The Edge; it's up to you who claim the system is so wonderful to PROVE it as best you can; saying it works, insisting it works, and getting really annoyed at people who are questioning you doesn't prove you are correct, nor does it help anyone learn from this discussion one way or another. After all, isn't that why we're hear? To learn and share?

I believe that people who are naturally skeptical shouldn't be accused of having doubts or of raising questions---because that's the only tried and true way that human beings make judgment calls and accept or reject what is true and what is false.

Perhaps proof can be offered---without divulging the particulars of the system---in the form of won and lost trades (dates, times, points gained etc.?) Perhaps sharing one's trade journal, charts (without indicators) or whatever? It's only a suggestion, but it's better than using brute force on each other, don't you agree?

I hope you think about what I've suggested.

Ron

 

[ivot]

So can we get the conversation on this system/approach flowing again? I do find it interesting that she is posting daily results...For those of you that are trading this method, how much discretion is involved?

 

[ronfalcone]

posted results

So can we get the conversation on this system/approach flowing again? I do find it interesting that she is posting daily results...For those of you that are trading this method, how much discretion is involved?

one thing that can be concluded - the course developer is obviously honest, or else she wouldn't be posting significant drawdowns (9 in a row yesterday).

 

[jsp326]

I bought the course and think I understand the setup, but I haven't been able to achieve the high win rate that some have. For those who have, are you simply following it mechanically? Or do you use discretion and/or other filters as well?

I have to disagree with Ron, though. If I could have 75% winners with roughly a 1:1 risk/reward ratio using the same setup, I certainly wouldn't mind trading 8 hours a day. How could it be stressful if you know you can win that often over time? You'd basically have a money machine if that were the case...

John

Looked at but havnt bought ..hmm

But here's the rub: in order to acheive the 75% win rate she talks about, you've got to trade multiple times throughout the day

Wrong .. Its on 1 time frame with use of another time frame for confirmation of the original signal very occasional.

this is an extremely stressfull, tedious approach to trading and incurs huge commission costs as well as time constraints. In other words, you really have to work hard for your money and you must be chained to the monitor all day or the system won't work.

Again rubbish .. its the most stress free system ive used in 8yrs of trading,work hard..hmm if you mean i click a mouse now and then then yes I work hard.

Chained to the PC .. we all are to a certain degree its the medium we use to earn our living.I dont moind sitting in front of the PC for 3-4 hrs a day ..prehaps you prefer to dig a hole in the road for 10yrs a day in the pouring rain...I dont know ?

Give me a break! Anyone could claim more winners than losers if they traded long enough and used enough leverage and a few diverging signals!

Of course figures and statistics can be manipulated Ive personaly had 6 losing days in the last 2months.Im happy with that esp when the sum total of the points lost doesnt total the largets winning day i had in those 2 months.

This post seems like another moan from a none trader ..and to guess at what a system offers and then using that guess work to slag a system off is actually quite pathetic

Ron in sunny and balmy Central Florida where the girls are so perty................[/


prehaps you spent looking to long at the girls its turned your mind

Paul ..Uk

 

[ronfalcone]

course description

Al, would you say the course is comprehensive, detailed, etc.? How many pages is it?

I recently e-mailed the operator of the course asking for more of a description (I'm not trying to access free info, I'm just very discretionary about what I would consider purchasing on the internet), but she never e-mailed me back.

I've been fairly impressed with Futures Trading Secrets by Bill Mcready, only because there is an actual table of contents on his web site and he's no BS. I'm still on the fence though as to which might be a better course.

thank you,
Ron

 

[chump]

75% win rate (profitable is what is stated and is what is in the guarantee) and if that it is it you'd be as well off buying a lottery ticket.
% Win rate in islolation is just gambling and about as much use. If you lose more on the 25% losing trades than you make on the 75% profitable trades then you are still losing money and this is what lot's of 'winning' systems do. To ascertain if it is any use you need to see a performance breakdown win/loss ratio etc etc. If anyone wishes to buy without seeing that first then I have a pig in a poke you might also wish to buy for xmas. Am I being unreasonable ? Well look if you want to sell something don't be surprised if I want to know exactly what it is supposed to do before I part with the money. "Yes, but Chump this is a car I am trying to sell you ..well fine ,but does it actually run ?" See what I mean...due diligence that's all any reasonable buyer and seller should be able to ask of each other and reluctance in providing same should be taken as a strict guidance on whether to proceed or not. Am I an "expert" ...yes at this I am !

 

[jsp326]

True, but the site claims there is "never has a losing trade that is greater than the average of the winners." This implies a 1:1 risk/reward ratio. Again, 75% winners with a 1:1 R/R would be a money machine, even after commissions or other frictional costs. Plug those numbers into any expectancy/money management formula and it will tell you have an incredible system.

There may be a few very good scalpers who can come close to pulling this off, but I really doubt it's by following a simple system. Most of them have years of experience and a healthy amount of discretion. But I'm still willing to be proven wrong if it's just a matter of me not understanding the setup...

75% win rate (profitable is what is stated and is what is in the guarantee) and if that it is it you'd be as well off buying a lottery ticket.
% Win rate in islolation is just gambling and about as much use. If you lose more on the 25% losing trades than you make on the 75% profitable trades then you are still losing money and this is what lot's of 'winning' systems do. To ascertain if it is any use you need to see a performance breakdown win/loss ratio etc etc. If anyone wishes to buy without seeing that first then I have a pig in a poke you might also wish to buy for xmas. Am I being unreasonable ? Well look if you want to sell something don't be surprised if I want to know exactly what it is supposed to do before I part with the money. "Yes, but Chump this is a car I am trying to sell you ..well fine ,but does it actually run ?" See what I mean...due diligence that's all any reasonable buyer and seller should be able to ask of each other and reluctance in providing same should be taken as a strict guidance on whether to proceed or not. Am I an "expert" ...yes at this I am !