SOCRATES
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Since my last post, I have had someone in the room, who you know, knows a great deal about these things too..............and we have been discussing these misconceptions that persistently serve to burden many people.RUDEBOY said:
It seems to be an endemic problem.
The root of it is that it tends to be viewed through the wrong goggles.
As a consequence, what is percieved is not what it really is.
Additionally there is this irresistible temptation to on the one hand find a shortcut at any cost
and on the other to persist in skirting round the problem either by not consciosuly confronting it and solving it, or, hoping the problem and the family of problems that derive from it , will somehow miraculously evaporate.
There are no shortcuts and no evaporation.
The problem remains and the only solution is to face it and deal with it , resolutely and decisively.
TheBramble
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Noise
Kunal - I like analogy and metaphor. And I think, take this thread for instance, you can learn a lot about the markets which is of real value by learning about people and information.
Some posts on this thread will have been useful to you. They address your specific information requirements in a way that makes sense to you and hopefully take you that little further toward your goal in educating yourself in the markets and trading. That was very probably the intent of the posters responding to your quite specific questions. Regardless of the appropriateness of those questions from anyone else's frame of reference, they were obviously important enough for you to bring them up. And you received responses. This is much like the market, when you begin to ask questions you prepare yourself to receive information which is appropriate to your question and your level of understanding and the degree to which it may or may not be of use to you will be a function of your ability to assess its worth at any given time.
Some posts you probably found less enlightening. Possibly even pointless. These are much like the 'noise' you will encounter in the market and you must safeguard yourself by learning, at a very early stage to differentiate between what is just noise and what is of genuine use and has worthwhile meaning.
With the markets you can 'tune' the noise out be selecting a different timeframe or using various filters to ensure you receive information relevant to your enquiries. You can do the same with information from any other source as well, with practice.
A good rule of thumb I have found is to use your inherent ability to determine if the information you are receiving is immediately obvious and comprehensible and useful - then it's probably something worth having.
If there seems no relevance or point to it - and seems to hint and allude without ever getting to any discernible conclusion or summary - you can safely discard it.
Kunal - I like analogy and metaphor. And I think, take this thread for instance, you can learn a lot about the markets which is of real value by learning about people and information.
Some posts on this thread will have been useful to you. They address your specific information requirements in a way that makes sense to you and hopefully take you that little further toward your goal in educating yourself in the markets and trading. That was very probably the intent of the posters responding to your quite specific questions. Regardless of the appropriateness of those questions from anyone else's frame of reference, they were obviously important enough for you to bring them up. And you received responses. This is much like the market, when you begin to ask questions you prepare yourself to receive information which is appropriate to your question and your level of understanding and the degree to which it may or may not be of use to you will be a function of your ability to assess its worth at any given time.
Some posts you probably found less enlightening. Possibly even pointless. These are much like the 'noise' you will encounter in the market and you must safeguard yourself by learning, at a very early stage to differentiate between what is just noise and what is of genuine use and has worthwhile meaning.
With the markets you can 'tune' the noise out be selecting a different timeframe or using various filters to ensure you receive information relevant to your enquiries. You can do the same with information from any other source as well, with practice.
A good rule of thumb I have found is to use your inherent ability to determine if the information you are receiving is immediately obvious and comprehensible and useful - then it's probably something worth having.
If there seems no relevance or point to it - and seems to hint and allude without ever getting to any discernible conclusion or summary - you can safely discard it.
sandpiper
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Tony,
Noise.... or just cleverly constructed misdirection? imo, there is no such thing as noise... it's all useful information.
If the vast majority are unsuccessful then surely the key to success is seeking that which is not immediately obvious, not widely discussed, and frequently disguised in an attempt to conceal its true worth from all but those who take the trouble to piece it together.
Or... is that too obvious?
TheBramble said:
Noise.... or just cleverly constructed misdirection? imo, there is no such thing as noise... it's all useful information.
TheBramble said:
If the vast majority are unsuccessful then surely the key to success is seeking that which is not immediately obvious, not widely discussed, and frequently disguised in an attempt to conceal its true worth from all but those who take the trouble to piece it together.
Or... is that too obvious?
SOCRATES
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May I rephrase ?sandpiper said:Tony,
Noise.... or just cleverly constructed misdirection? imo, there is no such thing as noise... it's all useful information.
If the vast majority are unsuccessful then surely the key to success is seeking that which is not immediately obvious, not widely discussed, and frequently disguised in an attempt to conceal its true worth from all but those who take the trouble to piece it together.
Or... is that too obvious?
Oops
oops hit send...
I continue. 3 books Candelsticks by Steve Nison. Trading day by day by Chick Goslin and The definite guide to P&F... total cost £140... I suspect I might learn more by using this as risk capital... discuss?
Yes I know it depends on how much I have as real trading capital... but I suspect most of you legendary and senior members may be of the learn by your mistakes not read too much types. However of course to get to be a legendary member you have to read and post a lot!
oops hit send...
I continue. 3 books Candelsticks by Steve Nison. Trading day by day by Chick Goslin and The definite guide to P&F... total cost £140... I suspect I might learn more by using this as risk capital... discuss?
Yes I know it depends on how much I have as real trading capital... but I suspect most of you legendary and senior members may be of the learn by your mistakes not read too much types. However of course to get to be a legendary member you have to read and post a lot!
SOCRATES
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Noise.... or just cleverly constructed misdirection? imo, there is no such thing as noise... it's all useful information. The filter, is a self imposed filter, nothing more, nothing less.
If the vast majority are unsuccessful then surely the key to success is seeking that which is not immediately obvious, not widely discussed, and frequently disguised in an attempt to conceal its true worth from all but those who take the trouble to piece it together, and who ultimately earn the right, by their persistent endeavours, and by conducting themselves properly, to enjoy it.
Or... is that too obvious?
Very Kind Regards.
If the vast majority are unsuccessful then surely the key to success is seeking that which is not immediately obvious, not widely discussed, and frequently disguised in an attempt to conceal its true worth from all but those who take the trouble to piece it together, and who ultimately earn the right, by their persistent endeavours, and by conducting themselves properly, to enjoy it.
Or... is that too obvious?
Very Kind Regards.
sandpiper
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Socrates,
Quite so.... Thankyou.
Nick,
Welcome to T2W!
Don't have any of those tombs myself. If I was to get one as a present, I'd choose the P&F. If I had to pay with my own wedge I wouldn't buy any of 'em, but I'm sure many people have and have probably reviewed then somewhere on the site. A search might reveal their thoughts.
140 quid? Well, given that knowledge is priceless, 140 smackers doesn't seem such a high price I guess. Have you tried your local library and seen if they have them or can get them. If they have, then you spend the 140 smackers on your missus and win on both fronts. Alternatively, you can of course just pish it away on the market immediately.
Rude,
Off again I see? Have another stella, relax and listen to the goo goos before you say something you'll regret in the morning.
Quite so.... Thankyou.
Nick,
Welcome to T2W!
Don't have any of those tombs myself. If I was to get one as a present, I'd choose the P&F. If I had to pay with my own wedge I wouldn't buy any of 'em, but I'm sure many people have and have probably reviewed then somewhere on the site. A search might reveal their thoughts.
140 quid? Well, given that knowledge is priceless, 140 smackers doesn't seem such a high price I guess. Have you tried your local library and seen if they have them or can get them. If they have, then you spend the 140 smackers on your missus and win on both fronts. Alternatively, you can of course just pish it away on the market immediately
.Rude,
Off again I see? Have another stella, relax and listen to the goo goos before you say something you'll regret in the morning
.
fxmarkets
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hello, Nick if money is needed, then 'id suggest you read this site, intensively for a few months, make a note of a few ideas you may stumble on or areas you are drawn to.
what are your expectations from those books? and more importantly perhaps, what do you expect of yourself in pursuing all of this.
what are your expectations from those books? and more importantly perhaps, what do you expect of yourself in pursuing all of this.
Actual Money in £££'s
The reason I mentioned £140 is more to do with the fact I rarely see cash values mentioned... usually percentages. I have a reasonable size of capital I can risk but I find I can't face a loss of more than £200. This is well below even 1% of capital. My "equity curve" is beating my target of the FTSE 100 over the last 3 months with light trading only (I'm an investor trying to move towards TA based swing trading). I know I could be doing a lot worse, but suspect I could do better if I was braver.
Do you guys really use percentages of your capital that you are happy to risk or do you actually have a cash sum that for long periods is your maximum (even though your capital is hopefully increasing)?
This £200 has been my maximum for about 12 months now.
The reason I mentioned £140 is more to do with the fact I rarely see cash values mentioned... usually percentages. I have a reasonable size of capital I can risk but I find I can't face a loss of more than £200. This is well below even 1% of capital. My "equity curve" is beating my target of the FTSE 100 over the last 3 months with light trading only (I'm an investor trying to move towards TA based swing trading). I know I could be doing a lot worse, but suspect I could do better if I was braver.
Do you guys really use percentages of your capital that you are happy to risk or do you actually have a cash sum that for long periods is your maximum (even though your capital is hopefully increasing)?
This £200 has been my maximum for about 12 months now.
Nick909 said:
Nick
Your approach of using a fixed monetary amount has 2 problems - (a) the market doesn't care how much money you can afford to lose (b) if that is the maximum you can afford to lose why risk it on each and every trade.
You need to look at market conditions and your past experience of that trade, sector etc. If a stop is too close to the entry point then the normal daily price whipsaw will stop the trade too soon. If you are too far from the entry point then you risk a greater loss than necessary.
By analysing the market and the stock you can identify suitable levels for it e.g. near likely support levels.
You should also look at current volatility e.g. by using indicators such as average true range.
As I said on another post you can consider tightening the stop after a certain time in the trade to take account of less volatility and to lock in profits.
So I am advocating a more active stop management rather than a fixed % or monetary amount based on volatility.
Hello, guys. Yes, i was drunk last night and i regret some things (which i have deleted), but not all.
Now, ENTRY, EXITS and STOPS? Who thinks that they are all separate issues, to be dealt with separately? To know one of the three little pigs, is to know them all. The three little pigs serve each other in a traders own mindset and the best know the equal value of them all and also know not to differentiate thier importance.
Knowing when to buy and when to sell or vicky versa, on any time frame, is the inherent problem for traders, (no s**t), you may say? Knowing your price action is the key to knowing the three little pigs.
Know your market, and the three little pigs will play together happily.......you may even make some money.
Yours,.....Enid Blighton.
Now, ENTRY, EXITS and STOPS? Who thinks that they are all separate issues, to be dealt with separately? To know one of the three little pigs, is to know them all. The three little pigs serve each other in a traders own mindset and the best know the equal value of them all and also know not to differentiate thier importance.
Knowing when to buy and when to sell or vicky versa, on any time frame, is the inherent problem for traders, (no s**t), you may say? Knowing your price action is the key to knowing the three little pigs.
Know your market, and the three little pigs will play together happily.......you may even make some money.
Yours,.....Enid Blighton.
