Spread Betting the Wall Street Rolling Daily

[Lord Flasheart]

Mo, don't take it personally but there's a 100% chance you're going to fall on your face because -

a) You don't realise that successful trading is all about risk control
b) You're risking far too much on a £2k account, try £1-£2 a point
c) You dismiss stops when they are a trader's BEST FRIEND, I repeat BEST FRIEND

When will you lose it all? Maybe today, maybe next week, maybe not for a year or two but you WILL lose.

Like I said don't take it personally but do try to switch your thinking 180 degrees.

Good luck anyway

i dont totally agree with what you say. Risk management is so important,but i only put the minimum in my account incase of an error on my part of the sb firm. EG if I want to trade £10 pp I dont need much more than £2000,but I always have a stop

 

[leonarda]

i dont totally agree with what you say. Risk management is so important,but i only put the minimum in my account incase of an error on my part of the sb firm. EG if I want to trade £10 pp I dont need much more than £2000,but I always have a stop

yes, he should have said "capital" rather than how much is in the account. If your "capital" is £20,000 then £10pp probably ok, but you only need £2000 in your SB account to cover that margin typically.

 

[leonarda]

standing at a -£650 or 32% drawdown currently, I do love watching thsese threads, they're great!

 

[Ross Spur]

standing at a -£650 or 32% drawdown currently, I do love watching thsese threads, they're great!

Only 32%? No cause for alarm, then.

 

[Lord Flasheart]

Its only his first trade,give him time

 

[Pat494]

Its only his first trade,give him time

:innocent:

 

[bedsit]

Hi Shakone - I am sick of losing money because some expert told me I have to use a stop loss or can only trade a fixed percentage of my pot at any one time. I am hoping to prove that this logic is flawed but if I fall on my face, so be it. 10 days will tell. Please watch with interest. Thanks
Ps. that 60% drawdown turned into a profit so I am not grumbling. I was prepared to lose the lot and got lucky (Maybe!!!).

Spread betting firms sometimes try to 'help' by leaving your trade open even when it goes beyond margin. So it is a possibility for a £2000 account to go to minus, so you owe extra on top of £2000. Not long ago I've heard of a guy going to a really big minus (tens of thousands)

So I guess it's possible to lose more than £2000, and with £10 per point on DOW quite easy to achieve.

 

[Shakone]

MAximum drawdown was 46% (on one trade that is).Coming back towards entry though, so you may get lucky.

 

[leonarda]

MAximum drawdown was 46% (on one trade that is).Coming back towards entry though, so you may get lucky.

yeah, phew.. ("wipe sweat from brow"), won't happen again anyway...

I was getting a bit worried with my 2.1% drawdown today, lucky it came back towards the close!

 

[Ross Spur]

MAximum drawdown was 46% (on one trade that is).Coming back towards entry though, so you may get lucky.

Luck? It was pure skill. I'd gladly give £1m for a strategy that works so well.

 

[top trader]

trading £10/point with 2k trading pot and no stop/loss, you are asking/waiting for a unavoidable situation. I would not trade more than £2/point.
good luck but remember slow turtle wins the race.

10 points a day plan, starting with £1000.

Trading at £1/point for every £1k trading pot.

Trade £1/point for every £1000 trading pot.
One can cut down trade size once 10 points are achieved for that particular day, when the pot is at 3k plus.


Month 1, £1/point is worth £10/day = £50/week = £200/month…....pot value after a month £1200.
Month 2, £1/point is worth £10/day = £50/week = £200/month…....pot value after 2nd month £1400.
Month 3, £1/point is worth £10/day = £50/week = £200/month…....pot value after 3rd month £1600.
Month 4, £1/point is worth £10/day = £50/week = £200/month.......pot value after 4th month £1800.

Month 5, £2/point is worth £20/day = £100/week = £400/month…....pot value after 5th month £2200.
Month 6, £2/point is worth £20/day = £100/week = £400/month…….pot value after 6th month £2600.
Month 7, £2/point is worth £20/day = £100/week = £400/month…….pot value after 7th month £3000.

Month 8, £3/point is worth £30/day = £150/week = £600/month…….pot value after 8th month £3600.
Month 9, £3/point is worth £30/day = £150/week = £600/month…….pot value after 9th month £4200.

Month 10, £4/point is worth £40/day = £200/week = £800/month......pot value after 10th month £5000.

Month 11, £5/point is worth £50/day = £250/week = £1000/month....pot value after 11th month £6000.

Month 12, £6/point is worth £60/day = £300/week = £1200/month....pot value after 12th month £7200.

There are going to be many days in which you might not get 10 points per day or you might get more than 15 points. The idea is to make it consistently without OVER TRADING. Always take out profit from the trading pot whenever it suits your over-all financial position. One never knows when that money can be useful.

 

[tomorton]

If only I'd known it was that easy.

 

[top trader]

tom- it took him 2 weeks to double his money, as above takes 4 and half months to double.

and if one can't make 10 points a day trading in indexes then it is better not to trade at all ( why bother ?)

 

[tomorton]

Compounding always looks great. Of course, if it takes as much as a whole year to make 100% profit, then after only a decade (a fraction of an average career span), and starting with just £1,000, the trader would be a millionaire. It's impossible for me to prove it's not possible, I can't even prove it's never been done, so I have to conclude it's possible.

 

[bangkoker]

..but clearly not the norm.

I don't know, what is a reasonable amount. I would personally be happy with my account generally increasing over time.. of course it would be lovely for the weekly earn to end up being a sustainable salary. I suppose I am fortunate in that I am able to do fine with my current full time profession but over time it would be nice for trading to aid with financial freedom.

I think the thing is cumulative compounding looks so appealing and easy on paper (or screen) but in reality a lot more comes into play.:whistling

 

[Ross Spur]

..but clearly not the norm.

I don't know, what is a reasonable amount. I would personally be happy with my account generally increasing over time.. of course it would be lovely for the weekly earn to end up being a sustainable salary. I suppose I am fortunate in that I am able to do fine with my current full time profession but over time it would be nice for trading to aid with financial freedom.

I think the thing is cumulative compounding looks so appealing and easy on paper (or screen) but in reality a lot more comes into play.:whistling

If you have a method that makes a consistent points gain, how many, or few, won't matter too much.

 

[bangkoker]

If you have a method that makes a consistent points gain, how many, or few, won't matter too much.

Agreed. I'd like to have several systems which are not correlated. Slowly slowly creeping forward and I beleive over time I will succeed but only time will truly tell

 

[mobanded]

Hi

Yesterday I put pressure on myself which I found difficult to handle. This pressure was not because of my personal trading, which at one point, was in excess of £900 down; it was because I was making decisions (or should I say the lack of them) based on an ultimate objective to prove to you lot on T2W that my system is good. So, just to ensure that you will believe what I am about to say, I would like to make it absolutely clear that my intent to make money by selling the system (have a laugh if you want, I probably deserve it) are now well and truly dead. Not because I don't believe in my system but because I can't handle the thought of anyone paying for advice which costs them more money if my advice is wrong.

So let me tell you about yesterday from my point of view:

At about 9 ish when I got out of bed I looked at my system and it indicated to me that the trend on the Dow would be down (answered later!) and that is the way I should place my bet. However, at the same time my breakfast was ready and I went to have it. When I returned from breakfast the Dow had dropped by about 40 points. I was now in a situation where my breakfast had cost me a decent profit which would have been enough for me to close the deal and finish for the day.

So, why did I, after my system indicated a downward move, place a bet on the long side? The truth is because I was placing too much emphasis on my 'audience' on T2W and felt pressure to get a profit regardless. In other words I was being an “********” - not certain that word is allowed and if it isn't I hope one of the editors will replace it with 's. When the Dow seemed to stagnate around the 10239 I expected it to regain the 40 points or so that it had lost up to that point. What happened was the Dow gained about 12 points which I should and would have taken if I wasn't transfixed on making a huge profit to impress my T2W audience. So, at that point the Dow turned and went south and it had me captive. Later during the trading day the Dow came back and my spreadbet was in profit (about 1.28 pm) just before the official opening at 1.30 pm, I could and would have taken a 6 point profit, had it not been for my need to impress my audience at T2W. When the Dow opened and went further south I knew it was going to be a long day and by 9.00 pm when it closed I was badly in need of a glass of savignon blanc.

So to my analysis of yesterday:

1. My system told me the trend would be down and I should make only bets that were short. I ignored it and paid the price. Lesson learned (I hope). I am sorry if anyone followed me and got out at a loss, but I did say I would never close a losing bet and that is still the case. I haven't looked at my account today but I think it is down about £3-400.
2. On Monday I will stay in the bet until such time as I make a profit or suffer the alternative.
3. For those of you who extol the virtues of a stop loss I would offer a question - “Where should I have placed my stop loss”? And give various scenarios: Anything up to a 40 point stop loss would have got me out and saved me money at the close. Anything over a 40 point stop loss would have got me out and, in my view because the market came back, would have cost me money. If I had used a 90 point stop loss I would have lost £900 or so, because the market came back some 50/60 points afterwards. Sorry, if I am being vague with numbers, my sb company is currently doing updating and I can't access them.

So, where do I go from here? I will continue with a daily update on what I am doing but will no longer attempt to impress. I will stick to my system which gives me an indication of the direction in which the Dow will trend. I will publish the trend as I see it by ten o'clock each morning but I WILL NOT feel under any pressure to publish my own trades. I will keep you appraised of how my existing trade (long at 10439 for 10 pips/£10). By the way you better add a further £18.87 to the loss because that is what I was charged for rolling it over.

Another point to taken into consideration with my system is that just because I have an indication of the trend it does not mean I follow it religiously as a continuous strategy. What I mean by this is that if I make a reasonable profit (no fixed amount) I will take it and wait to get back in if the market trends in the opposite direction. If I had used and stuck to this criteria yesterday I would have made money.

Onwards and upwards!!!

Mobanded

 

[Pat494]

OH Gawd it looks like it wuz all T2W member's fault

Should we admit it ?

well no

 

[barjon]

mo

You haven't said very much about your system but your last post seems to read as though if identifies the trend for you and you then move into discretionary trading rather than following any system signal(s). I only say that because if your system was giving you such entry and exit signals I don't think you would be talking about "expected" "should have" "would have" etc.

If your system is giving you such entry and exit signals then why not use them to take your profit or loss - that'll give you your stop loss even though it might not suit those who like to restrict their loss to a known amount.

jon