Spread Betting for a living

[Gordon Gekko]

Just some friendly banter across the trading desk. I'm sure CityTrader knew I was only kidding. Besides being an ex-trader he has a thick skin so he won't mind.

Hey Mr CT, being from Herts and all that, you weren't in the backoffice at Barings were you?

 

[tradesmart]

Gordon, you might be right – I’ve heard a rumour that Nick L. contributes to these boards using a 'nom de plume'……….

BTW – is Manhatten near the Bronks…………..?!....................

edit - oh, you've changed it - spoilsport.......... :cheesy:

 

[LevII]

Gordon Gekko

i decided to give it a year to see how it would go. So, i got a few books, found some kind people on the internet to let me pay them for a day or two training (they promised me real brains to operate on, but had to make do with a lettuce, but the trainers were real nice people, were only doing the training as they liked to help people, and assured me they did brain surgery everyday).

Does anyone know any nice people who offer training in trading? I'm fed up with being a brain surgeon

Answers by spam bombardment please.

 

[MysticalTrader]

Sorry for my late reply to this post but important.

Yes, I agree, I would always have an independent live feed. No harm having both belt and braces.

MT

I've found it essential to have a live feed when SB'ing. As recommended elsewhere I use the live feed (esignal) for TA and trade using the SB platform, the only issue is what to do with stops. I've just opened a CFD account (not yet funded) to see if theres a difference.

Six years to consistency earn sounds a long time to me,

Enzo

 

[stevet]

Lelll

all the people who do training of traders are really really nice people and especially as they only do it as a favour to help others

they admitedly do get a bit rude if you say that perhaps they could be even nicer if they did not charge - or if you only paid them later, out of the profits you make from being trained by them - but i suspect that was just some misunderstanding! but you can learn so much looking at a bunch of nice graphs and hearing the trainers tell you how clever they are!!

 

[stevet]

whilst it would be impossible to trade without a real data feed - i am not sure how a data feed could affect a query over a stop with a spreadbetting company - since their prices are their own and effectivly OTC contracts for difference issued by the spreadbetting company

add to the fact that even the real data does not always show the actual prices traded at - so if a spreadbetting company does undo a losing position for you - based on "real" data - they are actually doing it as a favour to you - so i would stick with that company until you genuinely feel screwed by them - or that they have fairly had enough of your money and its time to give it to another spreadbetting company

 

[CityTrader]

Just some friendly banter across the trading desk. I'm sure CityTrader knew I was only kidding. Besides being an ex-trader he has a thick skin so he won't mind.

Hey Mr CT, being from Herts and all that, you weren't in the backoffice at Barings were you?

No. That was my near neighbour MR L. - wrong side of Watford old boy...!

 

[CityTrader]

A couple of people I know who Spreadbet have also told me that having an independant datafeed is of vital importance. In the cases where they have been stopped out by a SB spike, they have then checked their own datafeed and if it is not confirmed they call up and get the stop out removed. This requires taking a screenshot of the live feed but if you have the evidence in front of you they are in a pretty poor position to counter the argument.


Paul

I happily pay £195/month to Proquote for my data feed. Especially as I base the few stops that I use on market prices NOT on quoted price. I also pay IG £35 (?) for their level 2 data feed.

 

[CityTrader]

Well for someone with as many stars as you I might just well change the spelling. But then again I can't really be bothered to do it for a pompous ex-city guy who couldn't cut the mustard and now "spread bets" for a living.

Well Gordon, after 18 year market making, I just got fed up with leaving home at 5.45am, getting home 13 hours later, no lunch break, I wanted to kick back, work less, and enjoy myself. So I now work 3-4hours a day - sorry if you see spread betting for a living as a "demotion"- personally I see it as a huge step up the quality of life ladder- I mean hey- I'm so laid back these days, I'm even bothering to reply to your slightly annoying taunting - rather than losing it totally, and pointing that if you spent as much time trading as you seem to do annoying people, you'd probably be a lot wealthier.

p.s congratulations on finding the spell checker- sorry just that having lived in NY, your INCORRECT (!) spelling really ****ing bugged me...

 

[MysticalTrader]

LOL. Sorry CT, couldnt resist! Seriously guys, we are all colleagues here, views and opinions are what make the place valuable. GG, we are all in glass houses so could you keep the missiles for PM's? It is a fact that you can't like everyone but it would be a shame if this forum descended into the exchanges of irritation which can characterise other, less mature forums (fora?).

Just a stray thought that I wanted to get on paper before it evaporated. Old age is such a sad thing.

MT

p.s congratulations on finding the spell checker- sorry just that having lived in NY, your miss spelling really ****ing bugged me...

 

[CityTrader]

That's a bit harsh GG!......

City Trader actually agrees with you!

Thank you Blair, exactly- I was only insulting his spelling, not his logic!

 

[CityTrader]

whilst it would be impossible to trade without a real data feed - i am not sure how a data feed could affect a query over a stop with a spreadbetting company - since their prices are their own and effectivly OTC contracts for difference issued by the spreadbetting company

add to the fact that even the real data does not always show the actual prices traded at - so if a spreadbetting company does undo a losing position for you - based on "real" data - they are actually doing it as a favour to you - so i would stick with that company until you genuinely feel screwed by them - or that they have fairly had enough of your money and its time to give it to another spreadbetting company

Stevet - on the rare occasions I leave a stop, I always leave it basis the underlying market- never what the SB'ing com wants to call the market. Saves any misunderstanding... cant argue with the cash or index itself...

 

[ivorm]

Stevet - on the rare occasions I leave a stop, I always leave it basis the underlying market- never what the SB'ing com wants to call the market. Saves any misunderstanding... cant argue with the cash or index itself...

Hi CT,

I'm not sure what you mean by this - could you elaborate please. I mean, I thought that with SBs, you don't have a choice as to what kind of stop you can leave. It's just a stop based on their prices. Which SB company do you use ?

TIA

Regards

 

[smarwood]

HI ivorm

I know with finspreads you can select either the market price or spread price on all stops

Spencer

 

[Zenda]

With Finspreads you can place and ajust your stops anywhere (and limits) however they do not allow you to move too close normally approx 10 points. - Z

 

[PurplePerson]

Ivorm -

Like others, Cantor also usually ask, if placing a stop, do you want it applied to the market price or the quote price. If I were using stops I would favour the market price being what triggers it, not the somewhat more slippery quote price.

Purple..

 

[axthree]

Interesting, PP and CT.
I use Tradindex and they don't appear to offer this choice. I assume that if I place a limit order at say 10000 it fires when their price hits this level. At least that's what happens to me.
I may be thick, but AFAICS whatever price you choose it will activate when their price hits it?
I have been using t-simlite and have watched with interest the way the SB's price moves around the market. I don't think this is just a ruse to relieve me from my dosh but I do see it as a smoothing effect.
I also use the temporary bias to my advantage when entering a trade. A technique I learned from other T2W posters but was a bit slow to copy.
Please feel free to correct me, since it is common knowledge that when they issued brains I was in the wrong queue.

 

[CityTrader]

axthree - what using the market price avoids is the " but it was never there. You've stopped me out at a price that never existed! " The only disadvantage is you dont actually know until afterwards what level you get stopped out at - as the quote may be biased due to other punters trading patterns..

CT

 

[Splitlink]

Electronic trading platforms can inexplicablty fail at vital moments (doesn't affect me - neither do house stops because I don't use them). For a year I ran a series of bets in parallel for a while - half of each bet with a house stop, and half without. Omitting stops saved me £4600 in a year! That is a big enough saving to help compensate for getting caught occasionally by a non-stopped bet (though I am not advocating anyone do the same - it just suits me).

I do not use stops, either, but with a certain amount of nervousness. I have not gone into the economics of the amount saved in a year but your reasoning makes a lot of sense. I believe that the SB's knowledge of where you have your stops is their greatest armament in the taking of your money. Thanks for a great post.

I emphasise this to all freshmen. IF THE SB KNOWS WHERE YOU PUT YOUR STOPS YOU ARE ALMOST CERTAINLY LIKELY TO LOSE YOUR MONEY IF OTHERS HAVE THEM NEAR YOURS, TOO. Its so easy for them to spike up and down in a milisecond. I've seen it happen so many times and I always know that some poor b*****d's lost his money. The only defense is not to use stops but remember to trade and money manage so that you can take the knocks, when they come- and they will. How often they come will depend on your skill on picking 'em.

Split

 

[Buk]

yes, the deployment/use of stops is indeed a headache at times. Much depends on the instrument(s) traded, your favoured time frame & trade objectives. One I found quite useful (& occasionally still use) on the cable is a simple trail of the 100wma off the 60min....it's just one strat employed to catch half decent trends off (potential) tops/bottoms of moves. You miss a chunk of the reverse, but it does pick up (keep you positioned) solid pips on bursts thru the century numbers.....it's usually far enough away to be safe in normal trading conditions, but can tip you out on the big news spikes. As with all things, flexibility of strats for differing occasions will even things out & help keep the a/c healthy!