Smart Live Markets - Spread Bet on MT4

So this Smart Live Market broker, are they any good?

I mean some of the issues seem quite bad (reading through the thread). Can you make money with them or do they always mess up your trades?

Do you think that a regular Forex broker would be a better bet - even with the tax issues?
 
You are welcome Pineapple, it is a subject I have been looking into recently myself.
I had both legs blown off in action 2 years ago and have been on disability but now I am back home I want to work again to get some self pride back and have always had a liking and interest for numbers.

A friend suggested I look at forex trading and said that any profits are tax free through Spreadbetting. I just want to earn £200 a week and get off benefits.
I can earn that on demo (of course it will be harder live) but am disappointed to find out as it would be my sole income that it will be taxable.
I guess the first 7.5k is tax free though.

FXJester, there are pros and cons with all spreadbetting companies and brokers I have tried, SLM, Oanda, Thinkforex, Finfx, Alpari.

The best thing to do is try the demo accounts on a few and decide which is best.
I found with Finfx the spreads are smaller but with commission it works out the same with the pairs I trade.
 
The way I look at the SB’s and tax is like this.

SB’s make money when clients lose money. If the client makes money the SB loses money. So it’s in the SB’s interest to make trading as difficult as possible when a client is making money. Therefore the more money you make with a SB the harder is will become.

In contrast a good broker only makes money from the spread and/or commission and do not trade against you, so it’s in their interest that the client doesn’t lose their balance.

A good analogy is to think of a trading with a SB as walking up a slope whose gradient becomes steeper and steeper the more money your make. Whereas trading with a good broker means that the gradient remains constant regardless how much money you make, albeit with the occasional steep step (tax bill).

At some point the savings in tax will be out weighed by the loses and difficulty incurred by the SB trading against you, at which point you should move over to a good broker. The move over to a broker is inevitable so why not do it straight away. At least with a broker you will know for sure that it’s your trading that’s failing and not the SB working against you.

Good point about the first 7.5k being tax free. If you win 7.5k with a SB the SB will have lost 7.5k. It’s highly likely that the SB will be watching your trading very carefully in order to minimize their loses.
 
my SLM live account is running MT4 v4 build 229

but my other MT4 trade accounts are running on MT4 v4 build 399

is there some good reason why SLM are using an old update ?

Hello
It is the platform not the account that updates to a new version.
The current version you should have is Version 4.00 Build 399.

Your PC should prompt you to ask if you would like to update.
If it dopes not then it is not our fault.
It is down to YOUR PC security settings.

For example, if you use Windows Vista and it has not upgraded then I suggest you try the following which I found vua Google:

You have two options:

1) Simply re-install the MT4 software (in the same location) then it might setup a new account, (or set one up yourself if the update alert does not show up) once the update alert shows up. You will now be able to update properly, just follow its steps.

[Note: When re-installing it will not show any of your customized stuff until the software updates and then you restart the Mt4, and then you re-restart it once more. After that all of your customized stuff should show up again as normal.]

2) Go to your Vista's Start Menu > Control Panel > User Account and Family Safety > User Accounts.

Then click on "Turn User Account Control on or off", then when the security alert pops up click "Continue".

Now un-check the "User Account Control (UAC)...etc." and click "Ok" then restart you computer.

Once you restart your computer you may update your MT4 as normal when it prompts you to. Once you are done with the update and restarting process make sure you go back to the above steps to turn the "User Account Control (UAC)...etc." back on for safety.

I hope that helps.

Regards
SLM
 
The way I look at the SB’s and tax is like this.

SB’s make money when clients lose money. If the client makes money the SB loses money. So it’s in the SB’s interest to make trading as difficult as possible when a client is making money. Therefore the more money you make with a SB the harder is will become.

In contrast a good broker only makes money from the spread and/or commission and do not trade against you, so it’s in their interest that the client doesn’t lose their balance.

A good analogy is to think of a trading with a SB as walking up a slope whose gradient becomes steeper and steeper the more money your make. Whereas trading with a good broker means that the gradient remains constant regardless how much money you make, albeit with the occasional steep step (tax bill).

At some point the savings in tax will be out weighed by the loses and difficulty incurred by the SB trading against you, at which point you should move over to a good broker. The move over to a broker is inevitable so why not do it straight away. At least with a broker you will know for sure that it’s your trading that’s failing and not the SB working against you.

Good point about the first 7.5k being tax free. If you win 7.5k with a SB the SB will have lost 7.5k. It’s highly likely that the SB will be watching your trading very carefully in order to minimize their loses.

Baby clanger that was a very informative post, thanks.

It makes me sick to think a SB firm can move the goal posts on the profitable traders.

So far I have noticed no difference on my SLM demo and live account but will be wary.

It begs the question which broker do you use and do they use MT4? PM if you prefer.

ThinkForex have fast ECN/STP execution and no dealing desk, 200:1 margin, good spreads and are not a SB firm so they could be a good choice of broker.

This was a reply to a query I put ot them.

"We do not hedge/trade against our clients. We have multiple account types that do and do not charge commission. On the non commission account there is a small markup. The demo platform represents our MT4 Standard non-commission account."

Oanda also seem pretty on (on demo anyway) and have better spreads but both are outside the UK which could be a problem if needing to telephone them in an emergency.
 
Baby clanger. It's not like that these days. SB companies used to take a position entirely against client like a bookie and of course would play tricks to win, but now they are hedge in underlying Market up to a point and so hope clients win else they lose business (by losing a client). They cannot always hedge pound for pound so they run part of business as a bookie and part as broker, mainly broker these days. The idea is they make money on the spread but within a broader context of all positions per instument, eg, all ftse positions would be hedged as much as possible in underlying etc and yes like a bookie they must balance the unhedged part of business but put it this way, if you traded anything that has genuine exchange data (ie anything except FX) then the SB price would be exactly as exchange with a spread around it and much more accountantable for us clients. Remember FX is not everything and is probably harder to trade than many other things when you think about it. The dodgy tactics usually revolve around FX as it's a licence for a bookie to create data, not saying SLM do this (they probably don't as they are quick usually to correct an unfair spike that didn't show on other feeds) but some no doubt still do. The industry is getting MUCH better with every year as competition gets hotter and spreadbetting gets bigger. People aren't taking sh*t from bookies anymore and it's showing.
 
Baby clanger that was a very informative post, thanks.

It makes me sick to think a SB firm can move the goal posts on the profitable traders.

So far I have noticed no difference on my SLM demo and live account but will be wary.

It begs the question which broker do you use and do they use MT4? PM if you prefer.

ThinkForex have fast ECN/STP execution and no dealing desk, 200:1 margin, good spreads and are not a SB firm so they could be a good choice of broker.

This was a reply to a query I put ot them.

"We do not hedge/trade against our clients. We have multiple account types that do and do not charge commission. On the non commission account there is a small markup. The demo platform represents our MT4 Standard non-commission account."

Oanda also seem pretty on (on demo anyway) and have better spreads but both are outside the UK which could be a problem if needing to telephone them in an emergency.

Hi busfarehome.

I’m still debating over whether to go with an SB or a broker; however I’m still inclined to go with a broker even after pineapplemans post. The brokers business model is much more transparent than a SB’s.

As for which broker, I’m still looking, all I can do is suggest the following web sites.

Brokers review:
http://www.100forexbrokers.com/reviews-ratings

Forex brokers: ECN vs STP vs NDD vs DD
(half way down the page)
http://www.100forexbrokers.com/stp-ecn-brokers

MT4 ECN Forex brokers
http://www.100forexbrokers.com/mt4-ecn-brokers

This site is also very useful (although the intro music can really get on your wick).
Start with Video 1, but please note that this was first posted 3 years ago.
http://www.youtube.com/user/ForexCoachingPros#p/u/0/BIYk8v_l_VM
 
Baby clanger. It's not like that these days. SB companies used to take a position entirely against client like a bookie and of course would play tricks to win, but now they are hedge in underlying Market up to a point and so hope clients win else they lose business (by losing a client). They cannot always hedge pound for pound so they run part of business as a bookie and part as broker, mainly broker these days. The idea is they make money on the spread but within a broader context of all positions per instument, eg, all ftse positions would be hedged as much as possible in underlying etc and yes like a bookie they must balance the unhedged part of business but put it this way, if you traded anything that has genuine exchange data (ie anything except FX) then the SB price would be exactly as exchange with a spread around it and much more accountantable for us clients. Remember FX is not everything and is probably harder to trade than many other things when you think about it. The dodgy tactics usually revolve around FX as it's a licence for a bookie to create data, not saying SLM do this (they probably don't as they are quick usually to correct an unfair spike that didn't show on other feeds) but some no doubt still do. The industry is getting MUCH better with every year as competition gets hotter and spreadbetting gets bigger. People aren't taking sh*t from bookies anymore and it's showing.

Thanks for your input pineappleman.

So you’re saying that the SB’s aren’t as bad as before but still practise the same hedging methods on the FX?

Don’t get me wrong, I have nothing against SB’s, they are in business to make money. I just think that it’s very important to understand exactly how their business model works.

Perhaps it’s time that SLM explained exactly how they make their money?
 
Just a quick one on 'how brokers make their money' - the publishers of the Kangaroo EA have a blog with a cracking article on how MT4 can be used by brokers and SB firms alike. Gets a bit technical in parts but I thought it was the best write up I've seen in ages:

http://tulipfx.com/2011/04/17/the-impact-of-your-broker-choice-on-your-trading-results/

Shows the more common spread manipulation tricks and how to keep an eye on them.

Note - I am not related to tulipfx in any way apart from as a customer. The EA is ok for now, takes a lot of trades though; I'm undecided on whether to keep it. Can't fault these guys for service and communications though.
 
So I think im going to use slm. Seems like a great broker that uses mt4 which seems great. Any reason why I should back out?
 
So I think im going to use slm. Seems like a great broker that uses mt4 which seems great. Any reason why I should back out?

I have been live trading with them for about two months, and can't really fault them. I have an Alpari demo account so I am regularly cross referencing price and they are spot on. I have had no sill games, platform freezes or anything else, and spreads seem reasonably competitive even out of hours. Was e-mailing customer services a couple of days ago and they were extremely helpful. Five stars from me ( I don't work for them and am not on commission) I have previously used IG, finspreads, ETX, paddypower and would say SLM are the best yet. Although not on commission if SLM are watching and you would like to top up my account please pm me ha ha.
 
Thanks a lot baby clanger for those links, plenty of reading to do over the Bank holiday.

Zorba, that was a very interesting read.
 
So you’re saying that the SB’s aren’t as bad as before but still practise the same hedging methods on the FX?

Yep, that's it! They used to have untradable spreads on everything years ago when they were young and IG ruled the world. Today IG are still expensive on some things and some instruments have unfair spreads with all SB brokers to this day. We all love EURUSD and GBPUSD for tight spreads and movement potential, but look at some FX pairs, comms, stocks etc and you will see a spread:movement ratio which will make you feel sick.

1 point DJ30 or 0.8 EURUSD and 1 GBPUSD type spreads are all loss making for a bookie, how can they profit from that???! This is where alarm bells ring so I wouldn't trust too-good-to-be-true spreads - something is wrong and you are probably in for a fall (dodgy games) somewhere.

SBs are now in a very saturated industry so the consumer will win; when one broker messes up and fools around the word soon gets out in places like this and they wont last unless they buck up their ideas. SLM have the best customer service and really do seem to help where possible because, being newish yet having staff who have previously worked in the industry, they must have realised that this was the only way to stand a chance.

In a nutshell, SB brokers/bookmakers in the past (when there were few) could do what they wanted with the price as they didn't have to quote the true underlying plus they were free to widen spreads whenever they wanted/needed to, which made trading even harder. Now, because of competition, they have had to smarten up. Spreads have to remain tight most of time, fills need to be good, etc.. else we walk.

So now if you trade something outside FX you can compare the bookie price to the real price and see how close it is....and it should be close these days. If you see a dodgy data spike anywhere you can ring up and moan, they should sort it for you else you walk. But with FX this has been hard as no central exchange, so Peter says 36 was the high, Paul says 39, who is right? So this is still an area the "bookie" side of the business can fiddle the numbers a bit to balance the losses on their books, while the "broker" side of the same company hedges as and when it can. Again, with technological advances and stiff competition, it's getting better all the time - it has to.

I would seriously look at things outside FX to trade for peace of mind with regards to dodgy data tactics, plus non-FX is often easier to trade.

But as for the old idea of "the broker takes the opposite side of the bet so wants you to lose" - this is long dead and buried. They want you to win so you keep trading with them, but yes the unhedged scatty leftovers on their books have to be kept like a regular bookie so check your stoploss takeouts and statements carefully.
 
Somewhere on the net one of the directors did a very interesting interview outlining SLM's philosophy - which was that they want their customers to make money because then they stay as customers. Might be useful if SLM could post the URL as it gives some good background.
 
Somewhere on the net one of the directors did a very interesting interview outlining SLM's philosophy - which was that they want their customers to make money because then they stay as customers. Might be useful if SLM could post the URL as it gives some good background.

If they're so keen for their customers to make money, why did they introduce variable (wider) spreads?:?:
 
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