Smart Live Markets - Spread Bet on MT4

[Tired_Of_Conmen]

I do not trade FX very often, but isn't 1 point spread on the EUR/USD quite a decent spread?

gle101 - yeah this is the thing, SB nowadays offers great spreads on the popular markets, like you say EURUSD 1 pip FIXED is great , notice the word FIXED!! Those real FX brokers that offer fluctuating spreads who claim between "0.5-2.5" pips etc really mean "hey, you'll get around 1.5-2 pips generally" - well why then would I do that when most SBs offer fixed 1 pip? And no tax?

So.... we come back round again to the beginning - can they be trusted to execute my order fairly and instantly with no games?

I agree with you, it's worth opening an small account to test them if they offer what you want/need.

BS is right too about just sticking with what we have when we have our winning edge, but I need to get someone to "stick to" in the first place, my last broker shafted me like it was late for evolution! :-0

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[gle101]

MT4 spreadbet isn't unique to SLM, though.

And who are the others?

 

[gle101]

Hey Ross

Are we talking ODL? Anyone else?

I've heard ODL are a joke. In fact actually I know of one more but can't remember their name yet their website nearly made me be sick. It was the complete con in terms of wide spreads yet they offered MT4 and even offered to give you free virtual server for MT4 so you could leave it running all month round for nothing so your EAs could work.

Thing is, if you let your bookie/broker host your platform on a virtual server then... well.. it defeats the purpose as they can see everything all your stops, orders, indicators, LOL sneaky b*stards!

But like I say their website was so homemade and terrible you wouldn't have deposited money with them.

So who else offer MT4 if you don't mind? Thanks for your input!! This whole thread is really helpful!!

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I know ODL offered MT4 for CFDs, I don't know if they still do, but a genuin open MT4 for SB I have found no other besides SLM.

 

[gle101]

gle101 - yeah this is the thing, SB nowadays offers great spreads on the popular markets, like you say EURUSD 1 pip FIXED is great , notice the word FIXED!! Those real FX brokers that offer fluctuating spreads who claim between "0.5-2.5" pips etc really mean "hey, you'll get around 1.5-2 pips generally" - well why then would I do that when most SBs offer fixed 1 pip? And no tax?

So.... we come back round again to the beginning - can they be trusted to execute my order fairly and instantly with no games?

I agree with you, it's worth opening an small account to test them if they offer what you want/need.

BS is right too about just sticking with what we have when we have our winning edge, but I need to get someone to "stick to" in the first place, my last broker shafted me like it was late for evolution! :-0

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I think you set your hopes to one SB too high. Every SB have their weakness and strength, depending on market conditions, instrument and spread.

 

[Tired_Of_Conmen]

I think you set your hopes to one SB too high. Every SB have their weakness and strength, depending on market conditions, instrument and spread.

Yes I have done in the past, but it's all a learning curve.

So what we're left with is the best of the bunch... and they are... ?? LOL that's what I'm trying to find!

I understand there will not be perfection so I would say the most important things are reliability (of fills and platform) with good spreads. But then of course you want your money to be safe (FSA regulated means £50k is safe) and for me hedging facility. I cannot use any broker who will not allow hedging, end of story.

So that actually rounds the field down for me by loads - a SB company that allows hedging is not 2-a-penny, so I got excited when a new company offered it. The rest of the package looked fantastic too (of course I'm referring to SLM). Now I'm just worried about this dodgy/slow data thing compared to the real market prices and other SB quotes.

If that can be sorted out ASAP with full confidence then yes OK I'll decide SLM are the best and go with them.

I can't go with most of the "Big Boys" due to their silly non-hedging policy. They need to loosen up their restrictions.

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[BeerMonster]

@T_O_C
I see that you mention that you like the hedging facility, do you mean that you buy and sell the same instrument at the same time? Is there an advantage to doing this rather than just having one position and closing it rather than opening another trade in the other direction to effective cancel or hedge it?
I'm not meaning to nosey about your trading but I am just interested in why hedging is useful (that is if I have understood correctly what you are doing)
Cheers

 

[Ross Spur]

And who are the others?

I was thinking of ODL, aka FXCM. On the subject of SB platforms, GFT would have one of the best, if they could iron out the bugs and took any notice of feedback, but not many people here seem to have tried them.

 

[Black Swan]

A few points; you'll never discover your winning edge whilst you're flitting around trying to find that perfect broker/sb firm. If tax eventually becomes an issue (with your fx trading) only then do you need to move to an sb firm, or move country, or have dual nationality... So what if they nick a pip off the spread, the charts freeze, you get a rough spike, a bad fill...if that's going to upset you that much you are miles away from being a consistently profitable and competent trader..

On my short term trades last week I must have taken approx. 50 trades across 2 pairs, perhaps 5% of those trades experienced 'problems'; I had 3 connection issues, (only 1 down to the broker), one set of charts lagged/froze twice at US open, the odd re-quote whilst best price was *discovered*, a couple of pips slippage...so fookin what? If folk cannot accept that goes with the territory and it is what it is, if they get too precious re. each trade, then they'll never move on. And here's a thing, if you have any doubts or have a big situation with an sb firm or broker then keep your dignity, say thanks a lot and move on if you don't get a fair and equitable resolution to your genuine problem..

Finally a while back I took exactly the same trades with an sb firm versus a broker. They both offered circa 2 pip spread on EUR/USD, in fact the broker was variable up to 2.5 pips. I took circa 100+ trades to compare and always entered the broker trades after the sb trades. The sb firm was 50% more expensive, slow fills, moving prices etc..etc.. and profitable trades took twice as long to go into profit. I can see where you're trying to go with hedging your trades v the same sb firm, it takes all sorts and it's a kind of money making exploitation of gaps that I cba perfecting..good luck with that..

 

[Black Swan]

@T_O_C
I see that you mention that you like the hedging facility, do you mean that you buy and sell the same instrument at the same time? Is there an advantage to doing this rather than just having one position and closing it rather than opening another trade in the other direction to effective cancel or hedge it?
I'm not meaning to nosey about your trading but I am just interested in why hedging is useful (that is if I have understood correctly what you are doing)
Cheers

You can answer your own Q. if you think of times such as nfp releases.. But as a consistent trading strat it's as mess for a retail punter...and even at nfp time what happens if you losing stop doesn't get hit in one direction..or both get hit which is more common than you'd think..

 

[Tired_Of_Conmen]

I can see where you're trying to go with hedging your trades v the same sb firm, it takes all sorts and it's a kind of money making exploitation of gaps that I cba perfecting..good luck with that..

BS - good advice with the whole "you'll never move on in life if you get too precious about every trade a broker messes up" thing, yes I agree great point well made.

But I don't understand the quote above? What do you mean? I'm not arb trading or gap trading or anything that painful! Is that what you meant?

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[Tired_Of_Conmen]

You can answer your own Q. if you think of times such as nfp releases.. But as a consistent trading strat it's as mess for a retail punter...and even at nfp time what happens if you losing stop doesn't get hit in one direction..or both get hit which is more common than you'd think..

No I dont do this, I don't touch news at all. I don't straddle markets.

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[Tired_Of_Conmen]

@T_O_C
I see that you mention that you like the hedging facility, do you mean that you buy and sell the same instrument at the same time? Is there an advantage to doing this rather than just having one position and closing it rather than opening another trade in the other direction to effective cancel or hedge it?
I'm not meaning to nosey about your trading but I am just interested in why hedging is useful (that is if I have understood correctly what you are doing)
Cheers

Yes you can buy and sell positions even if you already have open buy/sell positions on the same chart. Make no mistake, there is NO financial gain or edge to be had doing this. The edge it gives me is complete control over every trade with no rescrictions.

I know it's hard to understand at first coz it took me a while to see the value in it. Mathematically it's the same to hedge a trade as it is to close and reverse. But the advantage is that if you trade a model which needs you to enter multiple trades at different times long and short depending on what the chart is doing then obviously you need to have a broker that a). doesn't mind you having long and short positions littered all over the same chart b). doesn't stick longs and shorts together in one big long and short position.

In other words, on one chart, say EURUSD, I may have 3 positions open for a typical example: short 2%, short 1% and long 2%. These were opened at different times at different prices according to the signals given by my trading model. Then the time may come to close half of my long position, ok so now I'm short 2%, short 1% and long 1%. This goes on and on. Traditional SB brokers will not tolerate this. My trading model requires mutliple entries that MUST be kept individual. So I'm not actually hedging to be fair, I just used that term as it's one everyone is familiar with. The point is that if a broker offers "hedging" then they naturally offer what I need, multiple positions to be opened in any and all directions!!!!

TOC

 

[Tired_Of_Conmen]

I was thinking of ODL, aka FXCM. On the subject of SB platforms, GFT would have one of the best, if they could iron out the bugs and took any notice of feedback, but not many people here seem to have tried them.

Ahhhhh GFT!! I've heard good things but never indulged!

What are your personal experiences with them if you don't mind me asking?

Thanks!!!

 

[gle101]

Yes I have done in the past, but it's all a learning curve.

So what we're left with is the best of the bunch... and they are... ?? LOL that's what I'm trying to find!

I understand there will not be perfection so I would say the most important things are reliability (of fills and platform) with good spreads. But then of course you want your money to be safe (FSA regulated means £50k is safe) and for me hedging facility. I cannot use any broker who will not allow hedging, end of story.

So that actually rounds the field down for me by loads - a SB company that allows hedging is not 2-a-penny, so I got excited when a new company offered it. The rest of the package looked fantastic too (of course I'm referring to SLM). Now I'm just worried about this dodgy/slow data thing compared to the real market prices and other SB quotes.

If that can be sorted out ASAP with full confidence then yes OK I'll decide SLM are the best and go with them.

I can't go with most of the "Big Boys" due to their silly non-hedging policy. They need to loosen up their restrictions.

TOC

Why do you want hedging possibility at the same SB, you can use two different SB in order to hedge. It is more safe as well using two SB, the site can go down at your regular SB.

 

[BeerMonster]

Hi T_O_C
Many thanks for the explanation.

 

[Tired_Of_Conmen]

Why do you want hedging possibility at the same SB, you can use two different SB in order to hedge. It is more safe as well using two SB, the site can go down at your regular SB.

Just gets complicated that way. See I have a full time job and a life and everything that comes with that, so I need to keep it simple. I monitor positions at work but can't spend all day going from charts to platforms to more platforms, I have a busy office job I need everything wrapped up in one tidy package. So I don't want the hassle of 2 brokers just to hedge, I mean look at this thread, it's been hard enough to find 1 I like LOL!!

Seriously though, simplicity. I know your solution is a valid one, but it's not ideal for me.

TOC

EDIT: also, this is the bonus of MT4 for me, it's a familiar all-in-one charting package I can then add EAs to to help me manage my positions when I'm running around the office, on the train home from work, etc... I can do everything I need to from MT4 alone.

 

[Tired_Of_Conmen]

Hi T_O_C
Many thanks for the explanation.

No probs. I'm not advocating a particular way of trading, but if you've never looked into the possibility of holding multiple individual positions on one chart I'd seriously have a look at it.

In fact, if you find a trading method that allows you to capture the general swings (which I suppose includes bog-standard moving average crossover systems) then these multiple positions really add something to the method. It's great way of creaming consistent profit from, or at least having an exposure to, the general ups and downs of the chart. It's not for everyone but I hope it may have given you a new idea to play with

Anyway, I best not clutter this thread up with trading strategies sorry, let's keep it SLM vs other broker - my bad!!!!!

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[Ross Spur]

Yes you can buy and sell positions even if you already have open buy/sell positions on the same chart. Make no mistake, there is NO financial gain or edge to be had doing this. The edge it gives me is complete control over every trade with no rescrictions.

I know it's hard to understand at first coz it took me a while to see the value in it. Mathematically it's the same to hedge a trade as it is to close and reverse. But the advantage is that if you trade a model which needs you to enter multiple trades at different times long and short depending on what the chart is doing then obviously you need to have a broker that a). doesn't mind you having long and short positions littered all over the same chart b). doesn't stick longs and shorts together in one big long and short position.

In other words, on one chart, say EURUSD, I may have 3 positions open for a typical example: short 2%, short 1% and long 2%. These were opened at different times at different prices according to the signals given by my trading model. Then the time may come to close half of my long position, ok so now I'm short 2%, short 1% and long 1%. This goes on and on. Traditional SB brokers will not tolerate this. My trading model requires mutliple entries that MUST be kept individual. So I'm not actually hedging to be fair, I just used that term as it's one everyone is familiar with. The point is that if a broker offers "hedging" then they naturally offer what I need, multiple positions to be opened in any and all directions!!!!

TOC

Can't you always do the same by having positions in two slightly different markets? Most SBs offer several ways of trading index dailies, futures, etc.

 

[Ross Spur]

Ahhhhh GFT!! I've heard good things but never indulged!

What are your personal experiences with them if you don't mind me asking?

Thanks!!!

:help:

 

[Tired_Of_Conmen]

Can't you always do the same by having positions in two slightly different markets? Most SBs offer several ways of trading index dailies, futures, etc.

Yes that's an idea thanks for the suggestion. The only problem is then having to adjust the position sizing between the daily cash and then the futures contract quote if I wanted to get the math spot on. Normally the cash moves further than the futures price and the futures have the financing premium built into the wider spread - so all this would have to be accounted for in the stake sizes. It's more to think about/calculate whilst I'm doing a busy day job - not ideal.

There are ways, but in reality I think I just want to stick with one SB broker who allows me to hedge on any chart. It keeps everything nice and simple. That's the simplicity I want. I can forgive other mistakes/short-comings along the way as like BS says nothing can be perfect in this game, but that said I do need the basic needs taken care of (honesty, fair fills, etc). Otherwise you're swimming against the tide before you've even made a trade.

In a nutshell: MT4, not out to con us, fair fills, minimal problems which are explainable and genuine mistakes on their part, small price increments in the stake (to keep MM accurate) and hedging facility - all wrapped up in one broker. I'm hoping still its gonna be SLM.

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