Smart Live Markets - Spread Bet on MT4

[lovejoy21]

I noticed some price feed errors earlier.

at 15.05 GMT there was price errors on gj and gu (there might have been others but I was only watching these two). Price was @ about 1.5630 on other MT4 brokers and SB and was nearly 40 pis higher on SLM on both GJ and GU. I had a GU long so it worked out well for me cos I closed it at a much better price than I should have got.

I'm fairly new to SB as been slowly making the transition due to the tax benefits...why are spreads typically so much higher on SB's than traditional FX brokers?

 

[wilko]

Unfortunately, like I mentioned a while back, SLM's computing power seems lacking when the markets are very volatile and at UK market opening time. Weeks ago I noticed that the FTSE 100 was behind on SLM by about 20 points at the time of a US data release.

 

[DMFXTrader]

I wonder if SLM have considered offering an iphone app. I know a few brokers have and I have found it very useful if you need to check a position when you are out, or if you lose internet connection. Probably something with low priority I would have thought.

 

[Tired_Of_Conmen]

unable to place a trade on the SPX or Dow for the last few minutes since the news came out.
Annoying. First real complaint from me.
Not having this issue with my other brokers.

Redart: when you say "brokers" do you mean spreadbet brokers or otherwise?

Thanks

 

[Tired_Of_Conmen]

I noticed some price feed errors earlier.

at 15.05 GMT there was price errors on gj and gu (there might have been others but I was only watching these two). Price was @ about 1.5630 on other MT4 brokers and SB and was nearly 40 pis higher on SLM on both GJ and GU. I had a GU long so it worked out well for me cos I closed it at a much better price than I should have got.

I'm fairly new to SB as been slowly making the transition due to the tax benefits...why are spreads typically so much higher on SB's than traditional FX brokers?

Hmm this is weird. If anyone from SLM is reading please comment. If you was short and this happened, it would be completely unacceptable. That's where a phonecall, refund etc would come in but this shouldn't happen full stop. The price must follow the underlying market else it's all pointless.

To answer your question, the spread is wider on SB due to there being no commission to pay - the commission is built into the spread. They make their money from the little bit they add onto the natural market spread. So SB brokers are supposed to make small amounts per trade from the slightly wider spread they offer and therefore volume of trades is their lifeblood like with all brokers - so when they don't get enough trades to make a living one month, they play dirty tactics like stop hunting, frozen platforms, re-quotes etc... we're all on this thread hoping and praying SLM are going to be different.....

But with the price differences people are now mentioning... well.... ouch... SLM please comment.

 

[Tired_Of_Conmen]

I wonder if SLM have considered offering an iphone app. I know a few brokers have and I have found it very useful if you need to check a position when you are out, or if you lose internet connection. Probably something with low priority I would have thought.

I doubt it as MT4 is not available WOULD YOU BELIEVE IT on Iphones!! I have an iphone and the company that makes MT4 is not prepared to make a mobile version for the modern world's most popular phone even though they have had a mobile version available for ages for PDAs/smartphones. (I rang their UK office to confirm this).

Why?

Probably because they don't want to make money from all those iphone users I guess. Idiots!!

 

[Tired_Of_Conmen]

Unfortunately, like I mentioned a while back, SLM's computing power seems lacking when the markets are very volatile and at UK market opening time. Weeks ago I noticed that the FTSE 100 was behind on SLM by about 20 points at the time of a US data release.

Again, SLM please comment.

This is no good!!! 20 points of FTSE is just plain silly!!!! You can't have a quote that far off the mark!!!

Wilko, did you see what any other brokers (spreadbet or otherwise) were offering at same time?

Thanks

 

[wilko]

Hi TOC
Tradefair's price was correct when SLM's was way behind.
I really want SLM to be the best offering, I am no computer expert but presumably their servers just can't cope at times of peak demand.

 

[Tired_Of_Conmen]

...I really want SLM to be the best offering...

Hi Wilko, thanks for your comments, interesting I have also heard very good all round things about Tradefair but they don't offer the flexibility that SLM/MT4 offers. I like the flexibility, I need it!!!

I, like you, want SLM to be the best, there's loads of reasons why, I'm hoping these are just still teething troubles for a new company, you know?

Actually people have long said that we shouldn't spreadbet the news releases anyway as if so many normal brokers have trouble during that time then SB's don't stand a chance.

Do I agree with that... yes actually. I stay away from all news releases anyway just because I think they're wild, I like a price to have a trend or flow to it, not wild spikes. But even more I keep away as I'm an SB guy so yeah maybe the lesson is forget SB + news, just trade the swings with SB. But then again, if prices are out 20 point on FTSE and 40 on major FX then I'm not sure what strategy you can use to trade with frankly (maybe weekly chart swings..? LOL!!!)

TOC

 

[lovejoy21]

Hmm this is weird. If anyone from SLM is reading please comment. If you was short and this happened, it would be completely unacceptable. That's where a phonecall, refund etc would come in but this shouldn't happen full stop. The price must follow the underlying market else it's all pointless.

To answer your question, the spread is wider on SB due to there being no commission to pay - the commission is built into the spread. They make their money from the little bit they add onto the natural market spread. So SB brokers are supposed to make small amounts per trade from the slightly wider spread they offer and therefore volume of trades is their lifeblood like with all brokers - so when they don't get enough trades to make a living one month, they play dirty tactics like stop hunting, frozen platforms, re-quotes etc... we're all on this thread hoping and praying SLM are going to be different.....

But with the price differences people are now mentioning... well.... ouch... SLM please comment.

But I never paid commission on any of my trades with Oanda, FxPro and Alpari and there spreads are much better than SB's. Is it also due to the tax free status of gambling income? I mean SLM and TF both have around 10pip spreads on EUR/CAD, EUR/AUd compared to 2-4 on most other MT4 FX brokers.Same with the CHF and JPY pairs...spreads are much higher than other FX brokers ...the only reason I can think of is the tax free status so they can increase the spreads?

The price feed error is the only error I've seen so far...I've not had any requotes and execution has been fast...they have been more reliable than Alpari UK and FxPro IMO in that regard. The most important things to me are consistent spreads, fast execution and no re-quotes....ie. just a reliable platform and broker that you can trust.

 

[Tired_Of_Conmen]

But I never paid commission on any of my trades with Oanda, FxPro and Alpari and there spreads are much better than SB's.


The most important things to me are consistent spreads, fast execution and no re-quotes....ie. just a reliable platform and broker that you can trust.

Hi

All brokers either charge commission or have a slightly wider spread from the natural bid/ask they can get in the market. If they give you true direct prices, you pay a commission. If there is no commission, you pay a slightly wider than natural spread.

Those listed by you must have been making tiny margins on the spreads if they weren't charging commissions. Sounds fair enough... but...this is the thing which IMHO makes most brokers untrustworthy - you said you paid no commission with those listed brokers, and they had tiny spreads, so they must have been making "other" money one of two ways (maybe both): higher overnight financing charge (SLM's overnight charges are actually very fair) and, you guessed it, foul play (stop hunting and spiking etc).

Brokers are not charities, they are there to make money. If they're big enough, they're generally making enough to cover their business costs (legitimate!) from steady trading from a large client base. But smaller companies are known for foul play due to lack of clients, as otherwise they would go out of business (or they'd have to increase spreads/commissions a lot more which would be digging their grave).

So in the SB industry I guess it's been accepted that spreads are wider as there are no commissions and yes over time other "real" brokers have tightened their spreads whilst offering no commissions too... it's just companies going head to head for competition. SB companies have done the same but generally in select (major) markets, like 1point FTSE and even 1point Dow (loss making I'm sure) and 1pip EURUSD etc...

Anyway, so yeah maybe the tax free consideration is in there somewhere, but generally not I think. It's just that the SB industry is its own industry and traditionally it therefore doesn't have to keep up with the other types of brokers - no-one said they have to! They offer their service, other brokers offer their service and you make your choice.

Your comments on the reliability of SLM are very hepful, thanks for making the effort to help others.

And yes I agree, consistent spreads, fast execution and no re-quotes with no fancy whistles and bells is all I want too!!!!!!!!

TOC

 

[Tired_Of_Conmen]

I JUST WANT TO TRADE THE GODDAMN MARKETS!!! I REALLY AM GETTING SICK OF THIS NONSENSE WITH BROKERS!!! WHY CAN'T ONE, JUST ONE, BLOODY WELL WORK PROPERLY AS PROMISED??!!?!?

 

[Black Swan]

I JUST WANT TO TRADE THE GODDAMN MARKETS!!! I REALLY AM GETTING SICK OF THIS NONSENSE WITH BROKERS!!! WHY CAN'T ONE, JUST ONE, BLOODY WELL WORK PROPERLY AS PROMISED??!!?!?

Can I refer the honourable gentlemen to post number 70 on this thread? There are enough good (ish) players in this market already. The boat has sailed, the usp of SML (MT4) is gash...

To get to the place were IG is would probably take £10ml of seed capital, sml start up is probably less than £300K..and some of you guys think they'll make *it* work? Why give them a chance, why waste the time, surely you're already making money and have found your edge, so why deviate?

 

[Tired_Of_Conmen]

Can I refer the honourable gentlemen to post number 70 on this thread? There are enough good (ish) players in this market already. The boat has sailed, the usp of SML (MT4) is gash...

To get to the place were IG is would probably take £10ml of seed capital, sml start up is probably less than £300K..and some of you guys think they'll make *it* work? Why give them a chance, why waste the time, surely you're already making money and have found your edge, so why deviate?

Sorry, people were getting on my nerves back here at home and I took my anger out on the thread LOL!! I've calmed down now I've had a couple of beers :cheesy:

Yes I know any broker will do if you have an edge/trading model that works/method, whatever. I totally agree, focus on the trading.

But my original dilemma which still sits is that I need an SB broker that allows hedging, it's an absolute must for me. Not many do, but SLM do. I'm not expecting them to lead us to any promised land, but I need hedging facilities for my trading style. Now many brokers across the board don't like hedging, but in the world of SB it's really looked down upon. The MT4 thing with SLM means I can hedge, can have full control over every trade without restrictions.

SB brokers like you to keep it simple - bet one way or the other and only once. Then close and repeat. Doesn't work for me.

That's why I want SLM to work, coz I want to use SB for sure, so of course I need everything else (aside from hedging) to work nicely too with any broker that allows hedging.

So please SLM come on don't let us down with dodgy quotes!!!

TOC

 

[lovejoy21]

Hi

All brokers either charge commission or have a slightly wider spread from the natural bid/ask they can get in the market. If they give you true direct prices, you pay a commission. If there is no commission, you pay a slightly wider than natural spread.

Those listed by you must have been making tiny margins on the spreads if they weren't charging commissions. Sounds fair enough... but...this is the thing which IMHO makes most brokers untrustworthy - you said you paid no commission with those listed brokers, and they had tiny spreads, so they must have been making "other" money one of two ways (maybe both): higher overnight financing charge (SLM's overnight charges are actually very fair) and, you guessed it, foul play (stop hunting and spiking etc).

Brokers are not charities, they are there to make money. If they're big enough, they're generally making enough to cover their business costs (legitimate!) from steady trading from a large client base. But smaller companies are known for foul play due to lack of clients, as otherwise they would go out of business (or they'd have to increase spreads/commissions a lot more which would be digging their grave).

So in the SB industry I guess it's been accepted that spreads are wider as there are no commissions and yes over time other "real" brokers have tightened their spreads whilst offering no commissions too... it's just companies going head to head for competition. SB companies have done the same but generally in select (major) markets, like 1point FTSE and even 1point Dow (loss making I'm sure) and 1pip EURUSD etc...

Anyway, so yeah maybe the tax free consideration is in there somewhere, but generally not I think. It's just that the SB industry is its own industry and traditionally it therefore doesn't have to keep up with the other types of brokers - no-one said they have to! They offer their service, other brokers offer their service and you make your choice.

Your comments on the reliability of SLM are very hepful, thanks for making the effort to help others.

And yes I agree, consistent spreads, fast execution and no re-quotes with no fancy whistles and bells is all I want too!!!!!!!!

TOC

I think you are right in that it's a different industry and thus the SB are just competing against themselves and the SB industry traditionally has much higher spreads on FX than the traditional FX brokers. All FX brokers I've seen or used have always had much lower spreads than SB firms (no commission payabale). It might also have something to di with the size as well, I would have though on average FX brokers have a much bigger client base than SB firms with an average client having a much bigger client especailly as most FX brokers are not just limited to the UK client base like SB firms are.
I would have thought the traditional SB client has a very small account relative to the traditional FX Broker's client.

I'm entering both my trades on SLM and FxPro at the time time (via a copy tool EA) so I can assess whether the increaed cost per trade is worth the tax advantage over the long term.

 

[gle101]

Can I refer the honourable gentlemen to post number 70 on this thread? There are enough good (ish) players in this market already. The boat has sailed, the usp of SML (MT4) is gash...

To get to the place were IG is would probably take £10ml of seed capital, sml start up is probably less than £300K..and some of you guys think they'll make *it* work? Why give them a chance, why waste the time, surely you're already making money and have found your edge, so why deviate?

I agree, it is a very tough business out there at the moment for a new starter in this highly competitive industry. The thing is, in a market driven economy, if you are offering something unique (MT4 for SB) combined with competitive prices and good service, people will try out the product. I would say, why is the reason for not trying them out with a modest account deposit? The fact them being a newcomer does not disqualify them for trying to take some market share in this industry.

 

[gle101]

I think you are right in that it's a different industry and thus the SB are just competing against themselves and the SB industry traditionally has much higher spreads on FX than the traditional FX brokers. All FX brokers I've seen or used have always had much lower spreads than SB firms (no commission payabale). It might also have something to di with the size as well, I would have though on average FX brokers have a much bigger client base than SB firms with an average client having a much bigger client especailly as most FX brokers are not just limited to the UK client base like SB firms are.
I would have thought the traditional SB client has a very small account relative to the traditional FX Broker's client.

I'm entering both my trades on SLM and FxPro at the time time (via a copy tool EA) so I can assess whether the increaed cost per trade is worth the tax advantage over the long term.

I do not trade FX very often, but isn't 1 point spread on the EUR/USD quite a decent spread?

 

[Ross Spur]

MT4 spreadbet isn't unique to SLM, though.

 

[Tired_Of_Conmen]

I'm entering both my trades on SLM and FxPro at the time time (via a copy tool EA) so I can assess whether the increaed cost per trade is worth the tax advantage over the long term.

Yes good point, the SB industry is UK only as far as I know, so their client base will be much less than say FXCM etc.. hence why they are their own seperate industry and act as such.

It would be really handy if you could let us all know how your experiment goes after a few days or whatever, please could you keep an eye on the actual fills/prices with SLM too?

I think as for the tax advantage it boils down to one thing: how much money are you going to win in the markets? I don't like it when people say "oh you don't pay tax on the first £10,000 with real brokers anyway (approx tax allowance in UK - can't remember exact figure) so what the hell you wont make £10k anyway stop dreaming etc" - that's a totally negative attitude!!

I plan to retire wealthy enough one day thanks to trading. That means I need to make more than £10,000!!! So the tax advantage then is HUGE hence why I'm dedicated to SB. If I want to build and account into the £100,000's + then to pay no tax at all is heaven sent.

If people argue that the tax advantage isn't worth it then they're not planning on winning long term and that mentality will make you lose from the start - it's like they want to be losers in this game and don't believe that a professional, disciplined approach to capital preservation and a proven trading model can and will lead to ongoing profits. Add account compounding into the mix and watch it grow over a decade. Time is a huge factor in creating wealth but we all want it in 3 months. I'm so serious about this I gave myself 10 years allowance.

I'm still young enough to dedicate 10 years to this and still then be "young" enough (!) to enjoy my life on the wealth created.

I don't want tax/government dipping it's dirty little hands into my hard earned personal wealth creation only to waste it on art funding for some modern UK city eyesore or bail out the next failing industry with it.

TOC

 

[Tired_Of_Conmen]

MT4 spreadbet isn't unique to SLM, though.

Hey Ross

Are we talking ODL? Anyone else?

I've heard ODL are a joke. In fact actually I know of one more but can't remember their name yet their website nearly made me be sick. It was the complete con in terms of wide spreads yet they offered MT4 and even offered to give you free virtual server for MT4 so you could leave it running all month round for nothing so your EAs could work.

Thing is, if you let your bookie/broker host your platform on a virtual server then... well.. it defeats the purpose as they can see everything all your stops, orders, indicators, LOL sneaky b*stards!

But like I say their website was so homemade and terrible you wouldn't have deposited money with them.

So who else offer MT4 if you don't mind? Thanks for your input!! This whole thread is really helpful!!

TOC