Smart Live Markets - Spread Bet on MT4

[pineappleman]

Literally every time the bar moves to a new price, it registers one tick. These ticks build the "volume" bar. It's FX volume substitute but is totally useless IMO. If u want a truer volume measurement in FX use futures volume which is genuine as it's an exchange based security. All markets outside of FX use real volume, FX is a market where the trader must accept there is no volume analysis in reality.

But this isn't so bad, I studied volume analysis for a while and found it to be quite useless. It's like everything else, you can interpret any situation as "traders are buying" or "traders are selling" depending on what you THINK you see.

 

[Mata Nui]

A quick one for the SLM reps that watch this board:
Is there any way to get past data (even for only about a month) for BrentSB? I have an EA i developed that works nice for EUR/USD but from looking at the charts it seems the entry and exit signals would work almost as well with Crude. I did a quick backtest with strategy tester and although it lost money (it was using the EUR/USD opt set) optimising should make it profitable (and only a few mins optimising just TP and SL alone did show a profit).

My problem is the modelling quality for the quick test was only 42% which makes me think its not really worth using that data to optimise with. I need better data for the optimisation.

 

[Smart Live Markets]

A quick one for the SLM reps that watch this board:
Is there any way to get past data (even for only about a month) for BrentSB? I have an EA i developed that works nice for EUR/USD but from looking at the charts it seems the entry and exit signals would work almost as well with Crude. I did a quick backtest with strategy tester and although it lost money (it was using the EUR/USD opt set) optimising should make it profitable (and only a few mins optimising just TP and SL alone did show a profit).

My problem is the modelling quality for the quick test was only 42% which makes me think its not really worth using that data to optimise with. I need better data for the optimisation.

Hi

Well there is a limit to how much short term data MT4 can hold.

I assume it is the 1min data you want. You should have at least a month for that.
The 1 hour onwards should go back further of course.
Unfortunatly the history centre is not much use for these things as that is run by MetaQuotes and does not support spread betting.

Sorry.

Regards
SLM

 

[Smart Live Markets]

in what way do you think that "contracts traded" is not volume ?

I would be interested to know what you would expect to see as your view of "volume"

Hello

The volume registered on MT4 is simply the number of price changes.
For FX markets that are quoted with the extra decimal you will see the volume is usually high, as the price is always moving around. For something like the UK100 index, it will usually be a lot lower as it simply does not move around as much as say EURUSD.

Regards
SLM

 

[pineappleman]

A quick one for the SLM reps that watch this board:
Is there any way to get past data (even for only about a month) for BrentSB? I have an EA i developed that works nice for EUR/USD but from looking at the charts it seems the entry and exit signals would work almost as well with Crude. I did a quick backtest with strategy tester and although it lost money (it was using the EUR/USD opt set) optimising should make it profitable (and only a few mins optimising just TP and SL alone did show a profit).

My problem is the modelling quality for the quick test was only 42% which makes me think its not really worth using that data to optimise with. I need better data for the optimisation.

You can never trust broker data for systems testing!!! That's no offence to SLM it's true for all brokers and especially on FX as it's not central exhange data. I know you are looking at cost as this is cheapest solution but really if your models are going to have any true validity you need to use premium paid for data from a dedicated software provider.

But to be honest all backtesting and optimisation is a waste of time as it's only what happened in the past, just my opinion of course lol I know people will disagree but anyway whatever that's not my main point here, point is you must get clean premium data to build systems on if you are going to trade real money.

 

[Ross Spur]

But to be honest all backtesting and optimisation is a waste of time as it's only what happened in the past, just my opinion of course

I agree. The past is a foreign exchange country.

 

[pineappleman]

I agree. The past is a foreign exchange country.

Yes every moment is unique, every moment is the net result of a whole new combination of positions and traders at any given second in time. Charts cannot be decoded as there is no code, there is just a very real very mad crowd around the world betting on infinite ideas.

 

[Mata Nui]

But to be honest all backtesting and optimisation is a waste of time as it's only what happened in the past, just my opinion of course lol I know people will disagree but anyway whatever that's not my main point here, point is you must get clean premium data to build systems on if you are going to trade real money.

I sort of agree regarding backtesting and optimisation but there is no doubt that at a basic level both are important. I only backtest to gauge if an automated system has potential. This is why i only backtest for short periods (1 month max). Also i only really optimise TP, SL, BE and any order price offset if used. In general the optimised set usually is pretty close to my original eyball settings anyway and these optimisations are the ones that tend to be very different for each instrument but give a wide profitable range for the specific instrument. What i mean by that is SL for EUR/USD 5 min may be 12 points but for Oil would be around 25 points, also a range will give similar results so SL of 9,10,11,12,13,14 will give similar long term profitability meaning it is not overly curve fit.

I also think forward testing on a Demo is pointless as i have found by running demo/live with same opt sets gives different trades/profits (and usually live is actually more profitable). This is why i do short period backtests, limited optimisation then run on its own small (£100) live account. I really dont care about all these people who say 10 year backtest, 1 year demo blah blah. This way seems to be working for me.

 

[pineappleman]

This way seems to be working for me.

It's all good!

 

[imi_p85]

hi guys, lotta dicussion about this

as a novice yet to open his first account, would this be a good platform to start on?
i have been using the demo's for cmc, capspreads and dealbook, so far, liking cap spreads

have skim read though this topic but the pages i've picked give me a mixed picture.

 

[Tenapenny]

hi guys, lotta dicussion about this

as a novice yet to open his first account, would this be a good platform to start on?
i have been using the demo's for cmc, capspreads and dealbook, so far, liking cap spreads

have skim read though this topic but the pages i've picked give me a mixed picture.

Give it a go on demo but make sure you download the spreadbet platform and not the cfd.

 

[Ambrose Ackroyd]

as a novice yet to open his first account, would this be a good platform to start on?
i have been using the demo's for cmc, capspreads and dealbook, so far, liking cap spreads

Smart Live markets SB accounts allow you to trade with very small size ... starts at 10p per pip I think and can move up in increments of 10p.

I think this is better than demo trading for a newbie because it is real money ( albeit very small ) and it makes you focus and react differently than if you were using a demo account with pretend money.

Basically it allows you to trade for real without risking your neck.

 

[Tenapenny]

Smart Live markets SB accounts allow you to trade with very small size ... starts at 10p per pip I think and can move up in increments of 10p.

I think this is better than demo trading for a newbie because it is real money ( albeit very small ) and it makes you focus and react differently than if you were using a demo account with pretend money.

Basically it allows you to trade for real without risking your neck.

A good point. Using real money, albeit a small amount, will bring more emotion into play. Better to find out if you are cut out for it by losing a small amount than switching from demo to live and finding out it is a whole new ball game and blowing a larger account.

 

[pineappleman]

hi guys, lotta dicussion about this

as a novice yet to open his first account, would this be a good platform to start on?
i have been using the demo's for cmc, capspreads and dealbook, so far, liking cap spreads

have skim read though this topic but the pages i've picked give me a mixed picture.

Yes SLM are as good as any other SB broker and as already said the 10p min with 10p increments is very very good for a newbie. SLM are aimed at the small-medium sized accounts.

The main bonus is the MT4 platform. Now if you haven't ever used it before please google it and learn it's features; it's a massive platform used by many FX brokers but by no other SB company. It can do so many things, much more than any home made SB platform, that's why many people are happy to be SLM clients.

If you look on threads on T2W or others, you'll find loads of free scripts you can add to your MT4 platform to super charge it, make it one click trading, easier to use, etc there's so much you can do. Please don't overlook this important fact when deciding on your SB broker!

Pine

EDIT: forgot to say, the overnight financing charge on SLM is great, much better than other SB companies. This is a major subject most people ignore/overlook. On spot FX, for example, you have to pay for some overnight positions and in some more exotic pairs this can be a huge cost. The majors are generally cheap enough to hold overnight for many days if you want to. Some other SB companies absolutely screw you on overnight charges to the point it makes trading a particular instrument/method impossible, but SLM actually offer very competitive overnight fees, best I've seen in SB. Never overlook the financing charges in SB as this is as important as the spreads.

 

[Mata Nui]

Getting a bit fed up with some of MT4s stupid little 'features' now. Why cant it tell you when you pace an order that you wont have enough money? Why does it have to wait till the order is executed when its too late for you to do anything about it. I got caught out this morning with SLMs quite high margin requirments on FTSE. I was only 3% risk with very low risk in terms of points so thought i was well within margin. Went to get the boy ready for school, came back looked at the charts expecting to see cash in the account as my TP was easily hit but No. Alll i see was [Order Deleted]. Why couldnt it have told me this when i placed the order?

 

[Ross Spur]

Getting a bit fed up with some of MT4s stupid little 'features' now. Why cant it tell you when you pace an order that you wont have enough money? Why does it have to wait till the order is executed when its too late for you to do anything about it. I got caught out this morning with SLMs quite high margin requirments on FTSE. I was only 3% risk with very low risk in terms of points so thought i was well within margin. Went to get the boy ready for school, came back looked at the charts expecting to see cash in the account as my TP was easily hit but No. Alll i see was [Order Deleted]. Why couldnt it have told me this when i placed the order?

Can't really blame SLM for MT4's foibles, but it would help if they reduced their margin requirements.

 

[jonobrienuk]

Getting a bit fed up with some of MT4s stupid little 'features' now. Why cant it tell you when you pace an order that you wont have enough money? Why does it have to wait till the order is executed when its too late for you to do anything about it. I got caught out this morning with SLMs quite high margin requirments on FTSE. I was only 3% risk with very low risk in terms of points so thought i was well within margin. Went to get the boy ready for school, came back looked at the charts expecting to see cash in the account as my TP was easily hit but No. Alll i see was [Order Deleted]. Why couldnt it have told me this when i placed the order?

They do state how much margin is required, they then assume you will work out your positions to have enough money to cover the margin. MT4 waits till the order is sent to their server and then returns the result, you would have to ask it first to check the margin via a script if that is what you wanted.

 

[pineappleman]

Getting a bit fed up with some of MT4s stupid little 'features' now. Why cant it tell you when you pace an order that you wont have enough money? Why does it have to wait till the order is executed when its too late for you to do anything about it. I got caught out this morning with SLMs quite high margin requirments on FTSE. I was only 3% risk with very low risk in terms of points so thought i was well within margin. Went to get the boy ready for school, came back looked at the charts expecting to see cash in the account as my TP was easily hit but No. Alll i see was [Order Deleted]. Why couldnt it have told me this when i placed the order?

Yes this is annoying but can't u keep a list next to your PC of all your markets you trade with the margin requirement? You then only have to do a rough calculation in your head before you trade. If you need to do a precise calculation due it being borderline as to whether you will have enough funds then maybe your account is overstretched? I like to use no more than 50% of my margin allowance at any one time. Just a suggestion I don't know best and I'm sure you manage your account well but if you are so margined up already that you're not sure whether a position will be filled then maybe it's time to slash your overall exposure by half or so?

 

[Mata Nui]

They do state how much margin is required, they then assume you will work out your positions to have enough money to cover the margin. MT4 waits till the order is sent to their server and then returns the result, you would have to ask it first to check the margin via a script if that is what you wanted.

MT4 accepts the order as it is (invalid). It only complains when the order is actually executed. MT4 should know the order is actually invalid. Its not SMLs fault at all. In fact i think a lot of the problems SLM have are to do with the fact MT4 is old and has issues. I write server and client side software and trust me, the way MT4 is working in this case would not be acceptable in any industry i can think of.

 

[Trading Gurus]

Hi Mata,

I write server and client side software and trust me, the way MT4 is working in this case would not be acceptable in any industry i can think of.

Same here, and I agree wholeheartedly. Looks like I dropped in at a particularly opportune moment, because once in a blue moon I RTFM.

http://docs.mql4.com/account/AccountFreeMarginCheck

Cheers,

Jim