Should I stay or should I go?

[Nowler]

Hey folks!
As I have high respect for some of you here on this forum, I would like to hear what you think.

As most of you regulars know, I moved from my own country to get a fresh start and to grab opportunities by the scruff of the neck a year and a half ago.
I recently started working in an admin role within a Pensions & Life Insurance company (Early June), and it's been great!
First time I have ever felt genuinely appreciated by an employer, and they encourage further growth/development, even offering to pay the cost of certain exams with qualifications.

Anyway, today I got a phone call to work as a Traffic Banksman which is offering £24k a year. My current admin job is paying £17.5k per year...

One of my long-term goals is to trade/invest, though I am happy to plug away with work for the next decade or 2, building the required capital to allow me to step away from typical work.
My trading development is coming on well, and I'm optimistic that I will eventually make it work.
The investing however I am really confidant with, though for that and my plan I need far more capital as I intend to play the long game.

My dilemma is that if I take the new job, I can put about £6k a year away, getting my capital up 5 times faster.
Though, if I stay, it will take me 5 times longer to grow my capital... however, it brings opportunities to get a promotion to Team Leader which essentially pays that £24k per year, if I get it.
From what I can see, people have made it to team leader within 12 months, though most take longer.
As I mentioned, they also pay for exams... and apparently I can work towards becoming a Financial Adviser... though I'm not sure how long that might take, or even if they will allow me to get going inside my first year.

Anyone have any thoughts? Suggestions?

Intellectually, I would not be stimulated as a Banksman, but I would get to my fully capitalized level far quicker, allowing me to do more stimulating things.
If I stay, I can work towards a potential promotion (that I may or may not get), and towards qualifications that would bring decent income but would likely take 10 years or so.

The confidant side of me says to take the job offer, but the older and more cautious side says stay and work toward the promotion/Qualification.

Essentially it's a choice between more money, guaranteed, with no real stimulation or further development
or
Far slower money growth, with the possibility of getting up to the same money as the other job, but with plenty of stimulation and development.

What would you choose at 32 years of age?

 

[ssam]

This is interesting;

Just my 2p - it sounds like trading is what you enjoy and are focused on getting capitalised quickly. In my experience, I have moved job to an institution in the City and work 8 - 6:30pm most days, this means I need to be extremely stricked with my trading. Sunday nights are set ups and all my learning is done on the train / before or after work and weekends.

I would ask which would afford you the most time to hone your skills towards trading. Would you be able to study on your lunch break?

In my honest opinion, the more you earn the more your expectations and wants in life increase. I have felt this first hand - I earn ok, but always seem to have a similar amount of money to when I earnt less.

To capitalise my account, I try and pinch pennies. I.e no mega boozy nights out saves £100/200 a month, not buying lunch everyday another £100. Albeit these may seem small, would you achieve your goal faster?

Do you have assets to sell? I.e old bikes, gym equipment or any watches / jewellery ?

For me, again personal preference, working in an office and having the chance to develop business skills (simple business management, organising emails etc) are crucial further down the line. Waking up on a cold, dark winters morning and going in a warmer office rather than outside, for me wins every time.

Do you have any other skills like a language you could teach or something like that? For a little additional income to work towards the capitalisation goal?

Within your current role, can you let it be know you have drive for certain areas of business i.e investment finance or something similar.

If you don’t ask you don’t know, right.

Happy to bounce some ideas about if you like.

Regards,

Sam

 

[NVP]

hey N

thanks again for your profound honesty and eagerness for advice and help .......you dont realise what a strength this is .........and if you continue on this path (obviously putting any agreed strategies into place) then you will achieve success.....as you have parked your Ego way back and are already 100% focused on what you need to do to win ....puts you way out there is such a small % of people.....the ones who achieve what they want in life !

anyway back to the question

ok i think we all agree that having multiple streams of income is a good strategy .......my advice is always to have a solid profession or qualification in your pocket as you can always earn money from it whilst investing and everything else you are doing as well ........build businesses and passive income streams ...etc etc etc

rich dad poor dad - richard kiyosaki is the dude to read - ive mentioned this before i think

i personally would always take a job/role that gave me the chance to gain a recognised skill or qualification over a more risky but higher paid wage on something that wasnt as rewarding

i would swap short term capital gain for longer term capital and knowledge ......but thats just me ....in the early 1980s I was offered a trading apprenticeshup on the trading floor of a very large oil company but took their finance apprenticeship offer instead (to become a qualified accoountant inside 5 years in back office) ......in fact i qualified and still spent most of my time in the trading room learning my skill so i got double bubble ..........

trading and investing is still fickle and non guaranteed - earning money from a profession will always pay .......as long as you choose wisely even in the deepest recessions (and in fact some recessions can reward you even better than non recessionary periods in some proefssions)

hope this helps dude ...........money comes and goes ...but knowledge is forever .......ive been stone broke a couple of times in my life ...but still came back strong as i had knowledge and experience in my pocket ....luckily

N

 

[NVP]

love the quote dude ...

Education is the passport to the future! He who prepares today, owns tomorrow! But remember, Imagination is more important than knowledge. For knowledge is limited, whereas imagination embraces the entire world, stimulating progress, giving birth to evolution.

me i'm greedy - lets aim for education,knowledge and imagination !!!

N

 

[malaguti]

first comment from me is you are not thinking of the longer term. you're thinking like every paddy who needs work and goes straight for construction! My old man's from skibbereen before you take offence
two course of action in my opinion

1) use the employer to pay for exams and qualifications (which are what out of interest?) and get those as soon as you can.use it as an opportunity for a career and there is no career as a traffic banksman. It may pay more now, but you're not thinking of the longer term.... then
2) talk to your current employer and let them know you have an opportunity elsewhere for more money. if you told them now they wouldnt be too sympathetic if they knew the alternative was something unskilled and would likely tell you to go for it

The problem with doing 2 first is that right now you have no leverage. training and qualifications is your leverage when you decide to move. your current employer will then listen more when it comes to 1 above having just invested in your future and then when you are ready to move, you are hopefully moving within the industry. that next move will no doubt be paying far more

the markets are going to be here in the next 6 years...they will continue to go up and down and you can continue to refine whatever strategy you might have, which you haven't mentioned anything about. how mature is this strategy? how has it fared over the last few years, how has it fared over the last 20 years?
thats what I would be focusing on if i were in your shoes and i hadn't developed a strategy yet

best of luck though Nowler

 

[Nowler]

Thank you very much for the input lads!
I really appreciate you taking the time to read and respond!

This is interesting;

Just my 2p - it sounds like trading is what you enjoy and are focused on getting capitalised quickly. In my experience, I have moved job to an institution in the City and work 8 - 6:30pm most days, this means I need to be extremely stricked with my trading. Sunday nights are set ups and all my learning is done on the train / before or after work and weekends.

I would ask which would afford you the most time to hone your skills towards trading. Would you be able to study on your lunch break?

I really do enjoy the challenge of the markets!
I have a long history of doing things and then getting bored, only to move on (though I bring experience/skills with me).
Jobs... hobbies...relationships... I eventually get bored and want something different. However, the market is constantly changing... providing challenge after challenge. It consumes me, and I consume it. I hope it never ends

Coming back to your question, the current job I am in affords me some real quality trading. I start work at 9am but get in at about 8:20 so that I can read a market update from the session I slept through and to look at the upcoming data releases for the day (and a quick look a few days in advance). As I work at a desk, I have a tab open with this information, and I can glance back to it when I need to (though I try not to take the piss - I get paid to administer policies, not to trade). This would dramatically change if I took the job offer, though if I am getting the train to work then I can read what I need on the way, and set up trades on my phone. If I have to drive, I will miss that period of time/opportunity.

In my honest opinion, the more you earn the more your expectations and wants in life increase. I have felt this first hand - I earn ok, but always seem to have a similar amount of money to when I earnt less.

To capitalise my account, I try and pinch pennies. I.e no mega boozy nights out saves £100/200 a month, not buying lunch everyday another £100. Albeit these may seem small, would you achieve your goal faster?

Do you have assets to sell? I.e old bikes, gym equipment or any watches / jewellery ?

I too have experienced this, and while I'm sure it would happen to some degree if I got more money, I have thought long and hard about it. I currently have money set up to hit my investment portfolio a day or 2 after pay day, and if I got paid more money, I would increase that deposit amount, taking it before I have a chance to spend it.

I have nothing to sell. I left everything I had (which wasn't a lot) back in my homeland. During my reflection I realized that increasing income isn't the only way to get richer. Spending less, cutting out the material liabilities frees up money and keeps some higher digits in my bank account Now I try to look at things as assets and liabilities. If it cost me money and doesnt add the opportunity to make money a little later, then I will largely go without it.

For me, again personal preference, working in an office and having the chance to develop business skills (simple business management, organising emails etc) are crucial further down the line. Waking up on a cold, dark winters morning and going in a warmer office rather than outside, for me wins every time.

Do you have any other skills like a language you could teach or something like that? For a little additional income to work towards the capitalisation goal?

Within your current role, can you let it be know you have drive for certain areas of business i.e investment finance or something similar.

If you don’t ask you don’t know, right.

Happy to bounce some ideas about if you like.

Regards,

Sam

While it is nice to walk into an office every morning, where I have free coffee/tea/hot chocolate, access to a fridge to put my lunch into, a microwave to heat it up, cutlery to eat it, a nice computer to do my morning trading before work and to jump over to at important moments... I am willing to go through more hardship, for the right price. The price being offered to me to leave this behind is £6,500 per year. But it's also has the cost of forgoing development, and leaving an industry that is really interesting to me.

I have made it crystal clear at my interview that progression was vital for me. I then made it clear to my team leader when I got settled into the team. I have asked to learn more processes so that I can be more complete, to which she commended my attitude. I have asked her to put my name down for sub-roles such as first aider training/fire marshal also. This again shows my eagerness to grow, but it also makes me more important to the company (though being a first-aider wont stop them laying me off if they had to).

I told them I trade and invest at the interview, and that I would like to grow in that regard if possible. I also pointed out my degree in psychology, and expressed an interest in moving into more team leader/managerial/HR positions too. They received it well and told me there will be plenty of progression for me.

I really like this job. I would not like to stay processing policies as it's a bit tedious. The novel nature of it will not last, so I need to continue to grow...taking on more, and new roles. The benefits are decent also. But... I can't shake the thought that if I just believe in myself, take the new job, that I can make something great far quicker.

In regards to additional income, not really.
I mean, I could take on labor work in the evenings and weekends to make more money, but that would decimate my market time and education. That's an enormous price for me to pay. I do know other ways to bring in decent money, but that's on the side of the law I don't want to be on

I will have a think about it throughout the day, but I am leaning towards staying put. I just can't shake the feeling that I need to be more confidant that I can do what I plan, and just take the extra 6.5k a year.

 

[Nowler]

hey N

thanks again for your profound honesty and eagerness for advice and help .......you dont realise what a strength this is .........and if you continue on this path (obviously putting any agreed strategies into place) then you will achieve success.....as you have parked your Ego way back and are already 100% focused on what you need to do to win ....puts you way out there is such a small % of people.....the ones who achieve what they want in life !

anyway back to the question

ok i think we all agree that having multiple streams of income is a good strategy .......my advice is always to have a solid profession or qualification in your pocket as you can always earn money from it whilst investing and everything else you are doing as well ........build businesses and passive income streams ...etc etc etc

rich dad poor dad - richard kiyosaki is the dude to read - ive mentioned this before i think

i personally would always take a job/role that gave me the chance to gain a recognised skill or qualification over a more risky but higher paid wage on something that wasnt as rewarding

i would swap short term capital gain for longer term capital and knowledge ......but thats just me ....in the early 1980s I was offered a trading apprenticeshup on the trading floor of a very large oil company but took their finance apprenticeship offer instead (to become a qualified accoountant inside 5 years in back office) ......in fact i qualified and still spent most of my time in the trading room learning my skill so i got double bubble ..........

trading and investing is still fickle and non guaranteed - earning money from a profession will always pay .......as long as you choose wisely even in the deepest recessions (and in fact some recessions can reward you even better than non recessionary periods in some proefssions)

hope this helps dude ...........money comes and goes ...but knowledge is forever .......ive been stone broke a couple of times in my life ...but still came back strong as i had knowledge and experience in my pocket ....luckily

N

Thanks for the kind words. I am really glad I turned things around and pulled my head from my ass. Though I am still not the finished article.

After typing out my reply to Ssam, it was like saying it aloud.
I am heavily leaning toward staying, but I wanted to hear what some of you guys had to say about it, and maybe shake that voice out of my head which is telling me to take the extra money and believe that I can achieve my goal quicker.

There is no guarantee that I will get team leader with 12-24 months, but with my work ethic, there is a decent chance. Apparently the exams I can take are very likely if I can show their benefit to the company. The likes of the LF1 and CF1 I have to take anyway as its required, but I'm not sure how close to a Financial Adviser the company will take me. They don't offer financial advice, so I doubt they will take me all the way because that would require me to leave the job to take up that career. I will feel the water over the next week or so.

I do need to get another stream of income though. I was considering doing a counselling course part time and doing sessions on weekends, or maybe in the evenings. But that will cost me about £3,500 and about 3 years. Granted I could earn £30/hour take home once it's done but attaining it is a bit of a commitment, and in that time and with that money, I could be working toward something closer to the markets...

I actually took your suggestion and read that book a few months ago, I liked it. In fact, I will probably ready it again before the year is out as I recently started to go back over all I learned since I began trading in May '17. Hopefully I can refine what I know, and maybe kick out any incorrect information that I learn when very new/naive. I was planning on re-reading everything again anyway to soak up what I missed, but it was when talking to another member on here a few weeks ago about the Jessie Livermore book that prompted me to start doing it now. Now that I have been around the block a bit more things will make sense, and I have the understanding to engage more with it.

A second stream of income though... the counselling will take 3 years, in fact, probably more when I factor in supervised work.
I have on occasion played with the idea of buying "something" and selling it for a profit. Anything I suppose...
Buy a bicycle, fix it up and sell it on... then work up to a car or something...though I don't know how to fix cars, so that might be a non-starter if the car needs work.

I recently thought of buying things out of season, and then selling them in season... but I have not thought a huge amount about it. An E-Bay/Amazon account maybe...

I dunno... I have a lot going on in my head and I get lost in a sea of ideas. The result then being that very few things get seen through

Well done on snagging both the finance apprenticeship and the floor trading! Why take one when you can take two

In regards to that quote in my signature, it's great isn't it!
The first part is something I heard when I was about 18 when I began to feel there was more to life than my current situation suggested. I believe it's a Malcom X quote... The second part I think is attributed to Einstein. I heard that a litter later in life, but the two together are amazing.

Slightly off topic but one I heard recently is: "A society grows strong when old men plant trees whose shade they know they shall never sit in".... wow.... just wow! That is amazingly powerful and resonates with my philanthropic goals.

Anyway, thanks for the input as always mate! Very helpful!

 

[Nowler]

first comment from me is you are not thinking of the longer term. you're thinking like every paddy who needs work and goes straight for construction! My old man's from skibbereen before you take offence
two course of action in my opinion

1) use the employer to pay for exams and qualifications (which are what out of interest?) and get those as soon as you can.use it as an opportunity for a career and there is no career as a traffic banksman. It may pay more now, but you're not thinking of the longer term.... then
2) talk to your current employer and let them know you have an opportunity elsewhere for more money. if you told them now they wouldnt be too sympathetic if they knew the alternative was something unskilled and would likely tell you to go for it

The problem with doing 2 first is that right now you have no leverage. training and qualifications is your leverage when you decide to move. your current employer will then listen more when it comes to 1 above having just invested in your future and then when you are ready to move, you are hopefully moving within the industry. that next move will no doubt be paying far more

the markets are going to be here in the next 6 years...they will continue to go up and down and you can continue to refine whatever strategy you might have, which you haven't mentioned anything about. how mature is this strategy? how has it fared over the last few years, how has it fared over the last 20 years?
thats what I would be focusing on if i were in your shoes and i hadn't developed a strategy yet

best of luck though Nowler

Thanks for the input mate!
And I take no offence
You are correct!

After replying to the two other lads, I have cemented (construction term ) my decision to stay. I just had to put it out there, say it out loud (type it), and hear the opinions of others. I have a bit of pressure on me to speed things up. I am 32 now and currently sitting in a low paying, unskilled job. While I may not be old, i'm not getting any younger. I also want to increase the quality of life for my mother, who is a lot older than me, and wont be around forever. I have more time to improve the lives of my siblings, niece and nephew.

I agree with you all. Staying put is the better decision. Thanks to your input, I am now happy to put my thoughts on the job offer to sleep. In fact, it's sort of a no-brainer really...

The promotions may not be a certainly, but if I keep trying hard, they are probably more likely than being able to be a successful trader/investor. So if I believe that I can do that, then I should believe that I can at the very least become a team leader!

The exams/qualifications that I know of are the LF1 and CF1, which are Life and Pensions exam, and Financial Planning/Mortgage Advice exams. Beyond that, I will have to get more info. But I am told they are there.

I really appreciate the input lads!
Bouncing this off you has certainly helped

I will keep with trying to progress through my current job, but I need to sort out another stream of income

 

[NVP]

hwy dude ....good luck

regarding the pensions and FA qualifications ...i would recommend you seek some guidance from professionals in that industry as big changes are happening .....a couple of old friends who were in it for many years told me a while back that the hours were getting much longer , the qualificatins harder , deepr and more frequnt and the rewards much lower due to competion and legislation

so if you re looking at any major decisions always do due dilligence .....personally from my background i would still have chosen accounting as it unlocks so many doors ......so be careful what you chose !

the big advantage you have is hunger ...you cant buy that stuff ....i wold also recommend you listen to some Tony robbins .....perhaps his thoughts on purpose, ambition and self programming for success ...plenty of free stuff on youtube

N

 

[Nowler]

hwy dude ....good luck

regarding the pensions and FA qualifications ...i would recommend you seek some guidance from professionals in that industry as big changes are happening .....a couple of old friends who were in it for many years told me a while back that the hours were getting much longer , the qualificatins harder , deepr and more frequnt and the rewards much lower due to competion and legislation

so if you re looking at any major decisions always do due dilligence .....personally from my background i would still have chosen accounting as it unlocks so many doors ......so be careful what you chose !

the big advantage you have is hunger ...you cant buy that stuff ....i wold also recommend you listen to some Tony robbins .....perhaps his thoughts on purpose, ambition and self programming for success ...plenty of free stuff on youtube

N

I'll have an ask around to see if I know anyone in the field already. Theres some sort of small business near me that offers some sort of financial/mortgage advice. I'll sniff about in there during the week too.

When I took the job, I had team leader in mind. 24k a year... I'll have a slice of that thank you very much! The whole financial adviser thing only came about after I started 5 weeks ago.

Since I find it so interesting to be learning what I'm learning, i am thinking that this might very well be a good route to take. If I am to become a successful investor, then I will need to know what I am talking about... so why not get a qualification in knowing how to manage/invest money while I myself am learning how best to manage/invest my own money.

I just love learning about the markets and trying to crack it. I'm hesitant to tell people that's my goal because I dont want to sound silly....to sound just like the many thousands that say that and fail miserably...

I've been meaning to get on to a Tony Robin's book. I have heard him speak before and he is very charismatic. He sounds like he knows his stuff.

I've listened to a few personal development books and can see the change in me. But I'm far from the finished article. I have recently started to see a counsellor too to sort out some baggage I have. I've been meaning to for a while, but I feel like I'm cheating myself and my goals by carrying on so inefficiently. If I could just find inner peace, I would be far more capable...

Anyway, thank you all for the help.
I genuinely appreciate it!
You guys and this forum have been a life raft in stormy waters for me. A nurturing voice of guidance throughout my growth.

A price cannot be put on that...

 

[malaguti]

i would be very hesitant telling anyone one of your goals is centred around gambling unless you perhaps word it slightly differently.
you might want to change your language from trading to investing perhaps. your passion is investing suggests you are not at your computer during working hours looking for the next trade. trading is gambling
"cracking the market" could be better described as "building algorithms based on price pattern behaviour for example
how you word something, can change one's perception
be selective in who you tell, and how you tell it would be my advice

 

[Nowler]

Hey mate

While I dont consider myself a gambler, i do agree with you when it comes to putting a different slant on how I say it.

I dont gamble. I manage risky situations. I am manager of risk. I dance with the devil, with a condom on. I put on two pairs of socks when wearing new shoes

I like your suggestions.
Words are something that I've struggled with all my life, so I definitely should pay attention to what you said. I express myself better through text, but my internal monologue is way out of wack to that of my linguistic abilities. I actually do brain training each day to work on my weaknesses. Speaking and maths are my weaker points. Though I'm proud to say that on the elevate app I am not far away from advanced in these abilities now!

Not sure what that means, nor how accurate it is but I saw where I was, and I see where I'm going.

I am happy to see you commenting on this.
I was a little worried that I had put a wedge between us on that vasectomy thread.

I'm not sure of your trading or investing prowess, but I believe you have a lot that I can learn from.

 

[Nowler]

I'm not sure if this is paranoia or what but I made a typo that fixed an hour later. Unfortunately the typo indicates the exact opposite of what I was trying to say.

When replying to ssam, i was trying to say that i knew of other ways to make money that I was NOT interested in. My typo indicated that I was clearly interested in it

If you saw the typo, you know what i mean. If you didnt, it doesnt matter I'm a good boy nowadays. A law abiding person.

Not sure why that's been bothering me so much... I guess I do care what people think of me. To some degree

 

[NVP]

I'll have an ask around to see if I know anyone in the field already. Theres some sort of small business near me that offers some sort of financial/mortgage advice. I'll sniff about in there during the week too.

When I took the job, I had team leader in mind. 24k a year... I'll have a slice of that thank you very much! The whole financial adviser thing only came about after I started 5 weeks ago.

Since I find it so interesting to be learning what I'm learning, i am thinking that this might very well be a good route to take. If I am to become a successful investor, then I will need to know what I am talking about... so why not get a qualification in knowing how to manage/invest money while I myself am learning how best to manage/invest my own money.

I just love learning about the markets and trying to crack it. I'm hesitant to tell people that's my goal because I dont want to sound silly....to sound just like the many thousands that say that and fail miserably...

I've been meaning to get on to a Tony Robin's book. I have heard him speak before and he is very charismatic. He sounds like he knows his stuff.

I've listened to a few personal development books and can see the change in me. But I'm far from the finished article. I have recently started to see a counsellor too to sort out some baggage I have. I've been meaning to for a while, but I feel like I'm cheating myself and my goals by carrying on so inefficiently. If I could just find inner peace, I would be far more capable...

Anyway, thank you all for the help.
I genuinely appreciate it!
You guys and this forum have been a life raft in stormy waters for me. A nurturing voice of guidance throughout my growth.

A price cannot be put on that...

hey N - you are most welcome ......asking for help and advice is something too few of us do .....when we all really need it !

re the quote above ......

1) none of us are the finished article .....and must never believe we are .....unless you are always humble - you will be humbled

2) ive used a few therapists and life coaches over the years and its been incredibly useful to me - im a little more used to it as ive spent a lot of time working in US corporate cultures where americans use these guys a lot more than stiff upper lip Brits ! ....even my wife at times has looked at me and thought I was a wooser .....thats just brit thoughts .....whatever you need to get your head straight ....im here to be my best ......not take second best ....

heres some Tony for Free.......his "change the blueprint" is a really good way of looking at things and adapting

and as a bonus heres 2 of the greatest mentors together that have ever graced this planet ...I use Wayne Dyer to stay humble and recognise the greater forces around us

N

 

[malaguti]

Hey mate

While I dont consider myself a gambler, i do agree with you when it comes to putting a different slant on how I say it.

I dont gamble. I manage risky situations. I am manager of risk. I dance with the devil, with a condom on. I put on two pairs of socks when wearing new shoes

I like your suggestions.
Words are something that I've struggled with all my life, so I definitely should pay attention to what you said. I express myself better through text, but my internal monologue is way out of wack to that of my linguistic abilities. I actually do brain training each day to work on my weaknesses. Speaking and maths are my weaker points. Though I'm proud to say that on the elevate app I am not far away from advanced in these abilities now!

Not sure what that means, nor how accurate it is but I saw where I was, and I see where I'm going.

I am happy to see you commenting on this.
I was a little worried that I had put a wedge between us on that vasectomy thread.

I'm not sure of your trading or investing prowess, but I believe you have a lot that I can learn from.

we all have opinions, mine are no more better than yours Nowler we just see things differently. so dont worry about the vasectomy thread!
words..probably very similar to NVP i think. I started in accountancy, when dealing with high net worth which i was, you become "measured" in your responses. many years later, i'm consulting, i'm now even more "measured".
the use of language (including body language) is very important. i could write a book on the number of interviews i've been on, and the number i've given over the years. anyway, you're in a job so keep it that way and then next time you are interviewing, or looking for that payrise, give me a shout and I'll help as much as i can
as for my investing prowess, im happy with it. I've passed on a few suggestions to you in the past, you can go through them but they are not for everyone. ie they are longer term. i dont look at anything less than a weekly chart.

 

[cantagril]

hey N - you are most welcome ......asking for help and advice is something too few of us do .....when we all really need it !

re the quote above ......

1) none of us are the finished article .....and must never believe we are .....unless you are always humble - you will be humbled

2) ive used a few therapists and life coaches over the years and its been incredibly useful to me - im a little more used to it as ive spent a lot of time working in US corporate cultures where americans use these guys a lot more than stiff upper lip Brits !

Though my road has been very different, it seems to me that Nowler is in pretty good hands with both NVP and Malaguti. Quite a lot of what they've both been saying resonates with me though perhaps from a slightly different perspective:

The littIe work I do these days often includes aspects of the psychology of learning. I have been interested in practical psychology from both an amateur and professional standpoint for quite some time (i.e decades rather than years) and I'd say that NVP's point above at n°1 is a goodie - there are only two kinds of arrogance, the first being that of Ignorance and Stupidity and the second is that of Brilliance or Genius. The tragedy is that we humans are not very good at seeing where we sit on the spectrum. Most of us are neither complete idiots (though even T2W has had the odd one...and a couple have been very odd indeed) nor are we rocket scientists. Whilst it's not really a recommendation to be humble, I would say that for all of us, understanding how little we truly know about anything helps us to be more open-minded and reflective. The identity of the person with knowledge is irrelevant and it is the knowledge itself which matters with the other half of the equation being the ability to transform that knowledge into sagacity/wisdom.

With regard to life-coaches and brain training etc - I admit to be a tad sceptical about a lot of these folk but again that's due to my path. My interest in psychology began when during my schooldays I realised that, for some reason, I couldn't remember lessons if I took notes. If I didn't take any notes I could recall things much better. Having an OK memory helped me scrape through my A levels but I definitely had a problem. A few years after leaving school I found myself working in radio doing local reporting - which involved ad libbing live stuff. Again, I was quite good as long as I didn't try and do it from notes because then I'd just end up try to read them and making a dog's breakfast of it.

The above embarassing experience(s) led to me seeing a hypnotherapist to try and understand what my problem was, why I had it and what to do about it. I was extremely lucky in that the one I ended up seeing quite literally changed my life in a matter of weeks. I went from having an alright memory to having a much much better and markedly different one..... and that was the start of my involvement in psychology. I can say without a shadow of doubt that not only is a good memory an aid to intelligence but it can also be a really good substitute. Some 40+ years later, I still use the techniques that I learned then and I recognise echoes of them in every life-coach/self-improvement video or presentation I've ever seen. However brilliant and altruistic or simplistic and mercenary these guys are, is not relevant - what matters is whether they can transmit the knowledge they have. If they can and one benefits, that is the only thing that counts....but if they can't, then it doesn't matter how famous or successful, how much you pay for the course, - they're rubbish and a waste of time and money.

Hypnosis is a perfectly natural state of consciousness and can be constructively used for self-improvement and self-management including a vast range of conditions that are often considered by the layman to be "hard-wired" and rigidly fixed - a few examples, would be: attention deficit, poor memory, dyslexia, stammering, phobia, laziness.....and yes, indirectly, it can be used to improve one's trading

 

[ssam]

Thank you very much for the input lads!
I really appreciate you taking the time to read and respond!




I really do enjoy the challenge of the markets!
I have a long history of doing things and then getting bored, only to move on (though I bring experience/skills with me).
Jobs... hobbies...relationships... I eventually get bored and want something different. However, the market is constantly changing... providing challenge after challenge. It consumes me, and I consume it. I hope it never ends

Coming back to your question, the current job I am in affords me some real quality trading. I start work at 9am but get in at about 8:20 so that I can read a market update from the session I slept through and to look at the upcoming data releases for the day (and a quick look a few days in advance). As I work at a desk, I have a tab open with this information, and I can glance back to it when I need to (though I try not to take the piss - I get paid to administer policies, not to trade). This would dramatically change if I took the job offer, though if I am getting the train to work then I can read what I need on the way, and set up trades on my phone. If I have to drive, I will miss that period of time/opportunity.



I too have experienced this, and while I'm sure it would happen to some degree if I got more money, I have thought long and hard about it. I currently have money set up to hit my investment portfolio a day or 2 after pay day, and if I got paid more money, I would increase that deposit amount, taking it before I have a chance to spend it.

I have nothing to sell. I left everything I had (which wasn't a lot) back in my homeland. During my reflection I realized that increasing income isn't the only way to get richer. Spending less, cutting out the material liabilities frees up money and keeps some higher digits in my bank account Now I try to look at things as assets and liabilities. If it cost me money and doesnt add the opportunity to make money a little later, then I will largely go without it.




While it is nice to walk into an office every morning, where I have free coffee/tea/hot chocolate, access to a fridge to put my lunch into, a microwave to heat it up, cutlery to eat it, a nice computer to do my morning trading before work and to jump over to at important moments... I am willing to go through more hardship, for the right price. The price being offered to me to leave this behind is £6,500 per year. But it's also has the cost of forgoing development, and leaving an industry that is really interesting to me.

I have made it crystal clear at my interview that progression was vital for me. I then made it clear to my team leader when I got settled into the team. I have asked to learn more processes so that I can be more complete, to which she commended my attitude. I have asked her to put my name down for sub-roles such as first aider training/fire marshal also. This again shows my eagerness to grow, but it also makes me more important to the company (though being a first-aider wont stop them laying me off if they had to).

I told them I trade and invest at the interview, and that I would like to grow in that regard if possible. I also pointed out my degree in psychology, and expressed an interest in moving into more team leader/managerial/HR positions too. They received it well and told me there will be plenty of progression for me.

I really like this job. I would not like to stay processing policies as it's a bit tedious. The novel nature of it will not last, so I need to continue to grow...taking on more, and new roles. The benefits are decent also. But... I can't shake the thought that if I just believe in myself, take the new job, that I can make something great far quicker.

In regards to additional income, not really.
I mean, I could take on labor work in the evenings and weekends to make more money, but that would decimate my market time and education. That's an enormous price for me to pay. I do know other ways to bring in decent money, but that's on the side of the law I don't want to be on

I will have a think about it throughout the day, but I am leaning towards staying put. I just can't shake the feeling that I need to be more confidant that I can do what I plan, and just take the extra 6.5k a year.

This clearly isn’t a decision you’re taking lightly - which I respect.

What is the ultimate end goal? To generate a few hundred a month or (like me) use trading to fully disengage from the corporate rat race, this will take me at least 5 years. Having been a member for 7 years here already, I realise that having interacted with some great people here just how important this resource is.

I read a thread on here recently where I guy went full bore, after being made redundant he decided to follow his passion and trade full time, only to discover the lonely, disengaged side of the game. From his latest post it sounds like he is getting back into a job which isn’t trading from home.

Sorry, this little bit of the reply has gone off piste but I think what I am trying to say is what is the plan B, should you blow an account (which I do not want to happen!) or you, like this forum member, decide that trading alone full time isn’t for you?

Is £6,500 your gross or net position (after additional travel costs, workwear etc)
What about your commute? Is this same distance, if the banksman role is a longer travel time, you will Need to charge your hourly rate for any travel time over the same travel time to your current place of work to establish your net/net.

£6,500 / 261 = £25 a day better off

261 being the average number of working days.
depending on capital, trading strategy, r2r ratio, leverage etc I would not say a £25 win or £ 125 a week is unachievable?

You will make the right choice, your inner compass will steer you!

I, like other good folk in this thread, would stick with the office job, but that’s because I prefer working inside when it’s winter and the soft touches.

 

[Nowler]

...

Hypnosis is a perfectly natural state of consciousness and can be constructively used for self-improvement and self-management including a vast range of conditions that are often considered by the layman to be "hard-wired" and rigidly fixed - a few examples, would be: attention deficit, poor memory, dyslexia, stammering, phobia, laziness.....and yes, indirectly, it can be used to improve one's trading

I might actually try a hypnotherapist..
The counselor I started seeing isn't really what I am looking for. I was hoping for a more Rodgerian type, but also directive.
Psychoanalysis perhaps... though I will have a look at hypno's.

 

[nnash]

If you are competent at your job you should always take the higher salary from another company. You basically then get a free call option on the previous employer wanting you back at an even higher salary.

In the wise words of Charlie Munger "the first $100k is a real bitch".

Get to $100k account and then re-evaluate your goals and dreams.

If your dream is to be unemployed and day trade like all these geniuses online claim to do it is probably because they are not telling you the full story. I have a friend who pretends to be a "professional artist" that makes her living selling paintings. That is all she does all day every day is paint her terrible artwork. The reason she doesn't need a job is from the $10k a month allowance she gets from her father's trust. If she had to actually live off her art she would be on the street.

 

[cantagril]

I might actually try a hypnotherapist..
The counselor I started seeing isn't really what I am looking for. I was hoping for a more Rodgerian type, but also directive.
Psychoanalysis perhaps... though I will have a look at hypno's.

Counselling can be very helpful but like all therapies (including hypnosis) it is very much dependent on the starting point/condition and the desired result. One of the advantages of hypnosis is that you can be easily taught to do it yourself and, provided that you set SMART* goals and make it a part of your life, you can use it to improve all sorts of stuff from the mundane (shopping list, trading plan etc) to the profoundly existential. It really is excellent for stress relief as one of the usual induction methods is relaxation after which one starts to look under the bonnet. It is NOT a miracle cure!

*just in case you're not familiar with the acronym: Specific, Measurable, Attainable, Relevant and Timely