There's a surprise, though now they are saying 'only' $700 million of clients money is missing.
Regulators Investigating MF Global for Missing Money - NYTimes.com
There's a surprise, though now they are saying 'only' $700 million of clients money is missing.
Regulators Investigating MF Global for Missing Money - NYTimes.com
What was I thinking, of course they were using their clients money.
AfternoonT
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MF GLOBAL Like Alex, I have an active equity options account with MF Global (UK). Only have two - six open positions currently.
I have asked for my funds to be withdrawn - no reply as yet.
The fact that there was no email to clients at the beginning of their troubles last week is worrying. I found out most of the issues from cnbc.com
I have asked for my funds to be withdrawn - no reply as yet.
The fact that there was no email to clients at the beginning of their troubles last week is worrying. I found out most of the issues from cnbc.com
AfternoonT
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Thanks for this pboyles.
I am active in UK equity options. I have been with MF Global UK for a year or so. I was with GNI Brokers ( who got taken over by MF) previously.
The broking desk sent me an email this am, when I asked for a quote ( I was trying to close my position). They are not allowed to trade physically. I sent an email to withdraw funds - no reply as yet.
Thanks agian for link re: compensation.
CFTC has come out and said they didn't segregate client funds as required I imagine that is very bad news as some of that money could have been lost on their own trades. This could be a big one.
BBC News - Bankrupt broker MF Global misused customers' money
BBC News - Bankrupt broker MF Global misused customers' money
does it mean cftc regulation is not a protection of any kind
if it's own rules can be so easily neglected by a broker?
Like any rule or law there will always be people that try to outsmart the system for personal gain. This industry exists to scam the public, you only have to look at the amount of companies fined by nfa or CFTC to see the extent of the problem, and that's only the ones that get caught.
This may end up being a particularly bad one.
Ironically, I have just received a weekly statement from MF Global Spreads (zero balance for over a year now).
However, I found this one is different from previous one, in the very very small print area.
The previous one "Produced - 26/10/2011 01:06:07"
and the new statement "Produced - 02/11/2011 01:06:26"
However, I found this one is different from previous one, in the very very small print area.
The previous one "Produced - 26/10/2011 01:06:07"
MF Global Markets is a trading name of MF Global UK Limited, which is Authorised and Regulated by the Financial Services Authority.
and the new statement "Produced - 02/11/2011 01:06:26"
MF Global Markets is a trading name of MF Global UK Limited, which is Authorised and Regulated by the Financial Services Authority.
Richard Heis, Michael Robert Pink and Richard Dixon Fleming were appointed as joint special administrators of MF Global UK Limited and joint administrators of MF Global UK Services Limited.
The affairs, business and property of MF Global UK Limited are being managed by the joint special administrators who contract as agents of MF Global UK Limited without personal liability . The affairs, business and property of MF Global UK Services Limited are being managed by the joint administrators who contract as agents of MF Global UK Services Limited without personal liability.
Richard Heis and Michael Robert Pink are authorised to act as insolvency practitioners by the Institute of Chartered Accountants in England and Wales
Richard Dixon Fleming is authorised to act as an insolvency practitioner by the Insolvency Practitioners Association.
Just for the sake of statistics, I received my CFD End of month statement on 1/11/2011 and same notice as Alex2006, of appointed 'special' adminstrators but included above the usual accounts statement for 1/11/2011 .
Does anyone know what special adminstrators more than administrators?
If MF were trading on their own behalf and lost, it make me feel better about my own trading loses. I had been re-assessing my own system of analysis of the FTSE 350 when the news broke. I was also troubled about the system of direct automatic computer trading and will start a new thread.
Does anyone know what special adminstrators more than administrators?
If MF were trading on their own behalf and lost, it make me feel better about my own trading loses. I had been re-assessing my own system of analysis of the FTSE 350 when the news broke. I was also troubled about the system of direct automatic computer trading and will start a new thread.
News release from the Canadian regulator re compensation etc.
http://www.cipf.ca/Libraries/Miscellaneous_PDFs/NewsRelease.sflb.ashx
http://www.cipf.ca/Libraries/Miscellaneous_PDFs/NewsRelease.sflb.ashx
Update received today from the administrator.
MF Global UK Limited and Joint Administrators of MF Global Services Limited following an application to the High Court in London by the companies’ directors on Monday 31 October 2011.
I have open positions with MF Global – what is happening with these?
The administrators and company staff are working to transfer these where possible. Where exchanges and counterparties have defaulted MF Global UK Limited (in special administration) under their own rules, thereby effectively terminating customers’ positions, we are working closely with them to try to optimise the outcome. We are notifying clients affected by termination events as soon as possible, so they can take appropriate action. These notifications are being communicated through the companies’ normal communication channels, and we are writing to customers as soon as we can. In addition, information regarding which exchanges and clearing houses have closed or terminated trades / positions, and the date on which these were liquidated, is being posted on both Leading Cash and Derivatives Broker-dealer | MF Global United Kingdom and = KPMG UK =. This information will be updated as and when the positions of individual exchanges and clearing houses become clear.
All open client positions relating to foreign exchange (FX) have been or are being closed as of 4 November 2011 in accordance with the terms of business governing the agreement between us and the client.
We are not yet able to provide closing information to our clients who have had their positions closed. We are working to obtain the information needed to provide clients with final pricing and net position information and will provide that information as soon as possible.
I have received statement information since the administrators’ appointment. Is this accurate?
As a result of trades/positions being closed or terminated by counterparties of MF Global UK Limited (in special administration), since 31 October 2011, certain trade and/or position, price and cash balance data provided to customers is not necessarily reliable. Accurate closing prices and statements of final trades and/or positions will be sent to clients of MF Global UK Limited (in special administration) in due course.
I requested my account be closed and funds be remitted to me prior to the administrators’ appointment. I was told by Company staff that these requests had been actioned. However, I have not received the funds. What is the position?
It is clear that a large number of requests to close accounts made between Friday 28 October and Monday 31 October were received by the Company but not completed. Notwithstanding that these closure requests were made prior to the administrators’ appointment these accounts fall within the special administration process.
I would like to close my account now and have the funds remitted to me – can this be actioned?
At this point the companies are unable to action requests for withdrawals from client accounts – these are now subject to the special administration process.
My funds were held in a segregated account. Why can’t they be released immediately?
Notwithstanding their segregated status these accounts require to be first reconciled and dealt with as part of the special administration process.
How long will the process to return client monies take?
We are actively working to reconcile holdings and accounts in order to enable assets to be released as soon as practicable, which is one of our formal objectives under the Investment Bank Special Administration Regulations.
Our investigations to date (which remain ongoing) indicate that the majority of client funds were held at institutions outside of the MF Global Group. The ultimate return of client assets though will be dependent on the Special Administrator establishing the size of the claims against the segregated and non-segregated asset pools. These will not be finalised until all client risk positions have been liquidated or transferred and all claims against the pools have been validated.
What is the next stage in the administration process?
Creditors will receive formal correspondence from the administrators in the next 7 days detailing the process for making a claim.
How can I keep up to date with further developments?
Updates are being posted on our website, = KPMG UK =.
MF Global UK Limited and Joint Administrators of MF Global Services Limited following an application to the High Court in London by the companies’ directors on Monday 31 October 2011.
I have open positions with MF Global – what is happening with these?
The administrators and company staff are working to transfer these where possible. Where exchanges and counterparties have defaulted MF Global UK Limited (in special administration) under their own rules, thereby effectively terminating customers’ positions, we are working closely with them to try to optimise the outcome. We are notifying clients affected by termination events as soon as possible, so they can take appropriate action. These notifications are being communicated through the companies’ normal communication channels, and we are writing to customers as soon as we can. In addition, information regarding which exchanges and clearing houses have closed or terminated trades / positions, and the date on which these were liquidated, is being posted on both Leading Cash and Derivatives Broker-dealer | MF Global United Kingdom and = KPMG UK =. This information will be updated as and when the positions of individual exchanges and clearing houses become clear.
All open client positions relating to foreign exchange (FX) have been or are being closed as of 4 November 2011 in accordance with the terms of business governing the agreement between us and the client.
We are not yet able to provide closing information to our clients who have had their positions closed. We are working to obtain the information needed to provide clients with final pricing and net position information and will provide that information as soon as possible.
I have received statement information since the administrators’ appointment. Is this accurate?
As a result of trades/positions being closed or terminated by counterparties of MF Global UK Limited (in special administration), since 31 October 2011, certain trade and/or position, price and cash balance data provided to customers is not necessarily reliable. Accurate closing prices and statements of final trades and/or positions will be sent to clients of MF Global UK Limited (in special administration) in due course.
I requested my account be closed and funds be remitted to me prior to the administrators’ appointment. I was told by Company staff that these requests had been actioned. However, I have not received the funds. What is the position?
It is clear that a large number of requests to close accounts made between Friday 28 October and Monday 31 October were received by the Company but not completed. Notwithstanding that these closure requests were made prior to the administrators’ appointment these accounts fall within the special administration process.
I would like to close my account now and have the funds remitted to me – can this be actioned?
At this point the companies are unable to action requests for withdrawals from client accounts – these are now subject to the special administration process.
My funds were held in a segregated account. Why can’t they be released immediately?
Notwithstanding their segregated status these accounts require to be first reconciled and dealt with as part of the special administration process.
How long will the process to return client monies take?
We are actively working to reconcile holdings and accounts in order to enable assets to be released as soon as practicable, which is one of our formal objectives under the Investment Bank Special Administration Regulations.
Our investigations to date (which remain ongoing) indicate that the majority of client funds were held at institutions outside of the MF Global Group. The ultimate return of client assets though will be dependent on the Special Administrator establishing the size of the claims against the segregated and non-segregated asset pools. These will not be finalised until all client risk positions have been liquidated or transferred and all claims against the pools have been validated.
What is the next stage in the administration process?
Creditors will receive formal correspondence from the administrators in the next 7 days detailing the process for making a claim.
How can I keep up to date with further developments?
Updates are being posted on our website, = KPMG UK =.
Ingot54
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Thank you Rigel7 for that,and PBoyles for the CIPF pdf - these will be very useful here in Australia for the following reasons:
Deloitte have been appointed interim administrator for MFG Australia it seems.
However their fees are atrociously OUTRAGEOUS and seem totally disconnected from the job at hand. Deloitte are "estimating costs at around $1,000,000 per month." And if that money is NOT held by the trading arm of MFG, then it must come from somewhere.
Deloitte will move to ensure they get paid, and anything left will be distributed to interested parties. That is excessive and unfair, and unnecessary when compared to what is usually the case in winding up defaulting companies.
What is at stake here is not so much the company (MFG) itself, but the moral issue of segregation of client funds and accounts. Deloitte are now saying that:
"Client's funds are NOT segregated as far as the administrators are concerned. They will be treated as CREDITORS."
"Creditors" are entities who are owed money. ie ... entities who made loans to MFG.
If you are a client of MFG in Australia, you are being treated as if you "made a loan to MFG and MFG owe you that money back."
When you deposited money in your MFG a/c you did not knowingly "loan" them money, because that money was segregated as "yours" to be purely used for YOUR trading - not the trading by the parent company.
If this issue is not resolved in favor of the clients in this case, it leaves the entire industry at risk. For example, here in Australia, the Regulators, ASIC, rquire that client's funds be segregated from the company funds - ie protected.
But an administrator can over-ride that rule it seems, and here is where the 'moral" dilemma occurs. Unless the regulator - ASIC in Australia - steps in to prevent Deloitte from accessing client funds, then a precedent will be set that will rumble right through the industry.
My submission is that the Administrator CAN NOT over-ride the corporations law, and client's funds are NOT to be treated as creditor's funds. That is the whole point of segregation, and the intent and inference that was made when the account was established.
Here is an excerpt from correspondence I am receiving from a MFG client in Australia who has over $165,000 at risk, if Deloitte is allowed to ride rough-shod over the rules and regulations:
Have the Administrators liaised/consulted with and sorted permission/approval from either ASIC, SFE, the Federal Treasury and or the RBA for their planned treatment of segregated accounts and which part of the Corporation’s Law are they following and relying upon? And if not have they informed out of courtesy either ASIC, SFE, the Federal Treasury and or the RBA of their planned treatment of segregated accounts?
It is not good enough for clients to simply sit back and allow administrators to graze on the funds - feed at the trough - of clients, just because they are the administrators.
Clients need to become activist in their hard questions to the administrators, and get involved and in dialogue with the FSA, ASIC, CIPF or whatever governing body there is in your area.
If the governing regulator can NOT oversee the greedy activities of ruthless administrators when it comes to their own duty of protection towards the industry they are lawfully mandated to administer themselves, then the whole industry is at risk of anarchy, insofar as what companies can and can not do.
This is notwithstanding whether that company is a trading company, as is/was the case with MFG, or whether the administrator is is the case with Deloitte or KPMG or other receiver, or the government or industry regulator, which is the FSA, or ASIC, or other similar legally mandated regulator in your area.
people need to contact their regulator, whether clients of MFG or not, to begin expressing their severe concerns regarding the true meaning and status of the word "segregated."
If "segregated" only means "unless in liquidation" then I seriously suggest traders think about the amount of money, and the importance of that money to them, that they have deposited with any broker, anywhere.
It is not good enough for a receiver to simply rewrite the rules and laws to suit their own greedy desires.
Such activity is predatory.
Administrators and receivers, liquidators etc ALSO are governed by Corporations Law. It is incumbent upon the politics and regulations of enforcement bodies to insist on behaviour of these parasitical receivers, within the Corporations law, the moral law, and the full intent of the law, regarding the fine print contained in client agreements, set up and established at the time the agreement with MFG was entered into (ie at the time your account was established and set up.)
I am going to be asking some serious questions of IG Markets now, in the light of segregated funds being not-so-segregated, when it suits the whim of someone else who has a duty to discharge he corporate laws.
This is a different article but the same point is being made
MF Global collapse exposes Australian loophole on client money - Business - Stocks & economy - msnbc.com
MF Global collapse exposes Australian loophole on client money - Business - Stocks & economy - msnbc.com
MF Global: Where Is The Missing Money? re: The Auditors » Blog Archive » MF Global: Where Is The Missing Money?
So, Perhaps we should ask PriceWaterHouseCoopers if they can help?
Cheers
Mayfly
So, Perhaps we should ask PriceWaterHouseCoopers if they can help?
Cheers
Mayfly
I am a mf global uk customer. KPMG closed apparently all my eurex positions and I got no statement....
On the cme, I order yersterday to transfer my positions to an other broker, but it is impossible to check if it has been done or not.
Is anyone in the same situation?
On the cme, I order yersterday to transfer my positions to an other broker, but it is impossible to check if it has been done or not.
Is anyone in the same situation?
By Nick Brown
NEW YORK | Fri Nov 11, 2011 1:33pm EST
(Reuters) - The 1,066-member workforce of MF Global Holdings Ltd's brokerage has been terminated, the latest aftershock to the parent company's $41 billion collapse nearly two weeks ago.
The trustee in charge of liquidating the brokerage said in a statement that the workers were let go immediately, though they will be paid through November 15 and up to 200 will be rehired to help with the wind-down.
The move comes as the trustee, James Giddens, works to identify and locate the brokerage's assets, including $600 million in missing customer money.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Clare Baldwin and Greg Roumeliotis
NEW YORK | Fri Nov 11, 2011 4:25pm EST
(Reuters) - MF Global fired all 1,066 of its brokerage employees on Friday, triggering anger and resentment about the firm's collapse after bad bets on European debt under former CEO Jon Corzine's leadership.
How the final blow was delivered upset many staff -- with some learning by email and others through news on the television.
"Fifteen years and no severance!" shouted one angry MF Global employee as he left the firm's offices on 5th Avenue in Manhattan after hugging the receptionist and doorman.
The trustee in charge of liquidating the brokerage said in a statement that the workers were let go immediately, though they will be paid through November 15 and up to 200 will be rehired to help with the wind-down.
The timing couldn't be worse for the employees. Not only is the U.S. unemployment rate at 9 percent, other Wall Street firms have been firing staff in recent months as trading profits decline and tighter regulation takes hold.
"The lives of so many people have been disrupted. We did not even get told individually, we got a group email," said MF Global analyst Pierre-Yvan Desparois outside MF Global offices in Manhattan.
"The company had a lot of potential, it did not have to end like this. I'm a credit analyst and I could have told Corzine not to invest 100 percent in the sovereign debt situation. He placed bets with people's lives," said Desparois.
That Corzine criticism was echoed by Todd Thielmann, a broker with MF Global in Chicago.
"His ego has ruined a lot of lives," said Thielmann. "It was more about the execs at the company than the grunts."
Another employee who worked in market data at the firm in New York for three years said she would have never left.
"It was a great job. The camaraderie, the company was great. But people at the top let us down. It came as a complete shock," she said.
Not every employee saw the pink slip email, and not everyone was surprised.
A broker in Chicago learned about the termination through news reports and said employees were being called into meetings as the media began reporting the development.
"When you are working for a company that is bankrupt, you know it's coming," said an MF Global broker who attended a 20-minute meeting in New York.
MONEY STILL MISSING
The firings come as the trustee, James Giddens, works to identify and locate the brokerage's assets, including $600 million in missing customer money. Giddens is trying to account for all of the brokerage's assets with help from forensics investigators at Ernst & Young. The trustee said he has also retained Deloitte to help with the transfer of about 17,000 commodities accounts worth roughly $1.5 billion.
Federal agencies, including the Commodity Futures Trading Commission, the Securities & Exchange Commission and the Department of Justice, are investigating whether the money missing from customer accounts may have been improperly mixed with the firm's funds.
Giddens was appointed to liquidate the brokerage after MF's parent company declared bankruptcy on October 31, having lost on risky bets on European debt.
The bankruptcy shocked Wall Street, in part because the company was run by former New Jersey Governor and Goldman Sachs head Jon Corzine, who advocated for tough regulations on Wall Street firms during his political career.
Corzine resigned last week, saying he would not seek about $9 million in severance.
-------------------
-------------------
INCLUDING MISSING CUSTOMER MONEY.........!
AS YOU CAN SEE "A REGULATION" MAY EXIST .........(BUT NOT WORK)!
PROBABLY " STRICT ACCOUNT SEGREGATION"IS THE ONLY PROTECTION?
NEW YORK | Fri Nov 11, 2011 1:33pm EST
(Reuters) - The 1,066-member workforce of MF Global Holdings Ltd's brokerage has been terminated, the latest aftershock to the parent company's $41 billion collapse nearly two weeks ago.
The trustee in charge of liquidating the brokerage said in a statement that the workers were let go immediately, though they will be paid through November 15 and up to 200 will be rehired to help with the wind-down.
The move comes as the trustee, James Giddens, works to identify and locate the brokerage's assets, including $600 million in missing customer money.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Clare Baldwin and Greg Roumeliotis
NEW YORK | Fri Nov 11, 2011 4:25pm EST
(Reuters) - MF Global fired all 1,066 of its brokerage employees on Friday, triggering anger and resentment about the firm's collapse after bad bets on European debt under former CEO Jon Corzine's leadership.
How the final blow was delivered upset many staff -- with some learning by email and others through news on the television.
"Fifteen years and no severance!" shouted one angry MF Global employee as he left the firm's offices on 5th Avenue in Manhattan after hugging the receptionist and doorman.
The trustee in charge of liquidating the brokerage said in a statement that the workers were let go immediately, though they will be paid through November 15 and up to 200 will be rehired to help with the wind-down.
The timing couldn't be worse for the employees. Not only is the U.S. unemployment rate at 9 percent, other Wall Street firms have been firing staff in recent months as trading profits decline and tighter regulation takes hold.
"The lives of so many people have been disrupted. We did not even get told individually, we got a group email," said MF Global analyst Pierre-Yvan Desparois outside MF Global offices in Manhattan.
"The company had a lot of potential, it did not have to end like this. I'm a credit analyst and I could have told Corzine not to invest 100 percent in the sovereign debt situation. He placed bets with people's lives," said Desparois.
That Corzine criticism was echoed by Todd Thielmann, a broker with MF Global in Chicago.
"His ego has ruined a lot of lives," said Thielmann. "It was more about the execs at the company than the grunts."
Another employee who worked in market data at the firm in New York for three years said she would have never left.
"It was a great job. The camaraderie, the company was great. But people at the top let us down. It came as a complete shock," she said.
Not every employee saw the pink slip email, and not everyone was surprised.
A broker in Chicago learned about the termination through news reports and said employees were being called into meetings as the media began reporting the development.
"When you are working for a company that is bankrupt, you know it's coming," said an MF Global broker who attended a 20-minute meeting in New York.
MONEY STILL MISSING
The firings come as the trustee, James Giddens, works to identify and locate the brokerage's assets, including $600 million in missing customer money. Giddens is trying to account for all of the brokerage's assets with help from forensics investigators at Ernst & Young. The trustee said he has also retained Deloitte to help with the transfer of about 17,000 commodities accounts worth roughly $1.5 billion.
Federal agencies, including the Commodity Futures Trading Commission, the Securities & Exchange Commission and the Department of Justice, are investigating whether the money missing from customer accounts may have been improperly mixed with the firm's funds.
Giddens was appointed to liquidate the brokerage after MF's parent company declared bankruptcy on October 31, having lost on risky bets on European debt.
The bankruptcy shocked Wall Street, in part because the company was run by former New Jersey Governor and Goldman Sachs head Jon Corzine, who advocated for tough regulations on Wall Street firms during his political career.
Corzine resigned last week, saying he would not seek about $9 million in severance.
-------------------
-------------------
INCLUDING MISSING CUSTOMER MONEY.........!
AS YOU CAN SEE "A REGULATION" MAY EXIST .........(BUT NOT WORK)!
PROBABLY " STRICT ACCOUNT SEGREGATION"IS THE ONLY PROTECTION?
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Exhibit A: MF Global's Admission Exhibit A: MF Global's Admission | ZeroHedge
