Richard Hill Forex Net Trap

Denman said:
Hello goldfinger777, thanx for your informative post. Imho i think pure Net trap is the way for me(though i intend opening another account for INT).
Could you tell me, if i was to have a bank of £3000 and traded at 3percent @ £3 a pip and made 25pips avge a week, what i could seriously hope to make after 3 years using exponetial compounding. Mark posted a graph with this info but for some reason it wouldnt download.
Thanx and kind regards.
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Hi Denman, after 3 years you'd have a trading bank of approx £120,000 and you'd be staking about £118/pt at that stage, at 3%MM. This is assuming that you're increasing your stake everyday as your trading bank increases.

In my opinion that's not particularly impressive, but I guess it all depends on your expectations and ambitions. To be honest I'd be a bit disappointed if the long-term profit of NT/INT is only 100pts/month on average.

Personally I'm aiming a lot higher than that and I'm using NT/INT very much as my "backup" plan. I'm currently learning how to identify and trade much bigger gains and longer-term trades than the ones we do with NT/INT.

Having said that, NT/INT is certainly a good intro to Forex and will hopefully continue to be profitable long-term.

P.S. 3%MM really should be your absolute maximum, if you go for anything higher than that it's unlikely you'll still be trading this time next year.
 
G'day Ladies, Sirs & Lurkers!

I think I owe the Forum an apology! I have endeavoured to offer constructive criticism (I hope) regarding NT but on reflection, I think I may have been 'over critical' on occasions. This has chiefly arisen over what I have felt to be the 'absurdity' of the +50 pip aim/claim.

I must confess that I have 'simply misinterpreted' RH's strategy from the start and got the 'proverbial bee in my bonnet' over the +50 pips and I would now like like to set the record straight!

Clearly, RH is not aiming for +50 pips on each and every trade. The strategy of closing the trade at 8.30am is to take a profit at that time which 'might be' as much as +50 pips (given that is the set limit on the trade).

I do sincerely apologise for my 'misinterpretation' (duh ... brain freeze!) and particularly if I have misled newbies with my comments. I trust all will accept that I had everyone's best interests at heart, even though I had clearly got the 'wrong bee in the proverbial bonnet' with my rantings over the +50 pips!

I would also like to particularly thank those who have actually been very tolerent towards me and always responded to my 'comments' courteously and respectfully. I think one of the admirable characteristics of this Forum is that we have a great bunch of guys who are indeed tolerent, courteous and respectful of each other's opinions and ideas.

Phew! Glad to have got that of my chest and all the very best to everyone with this week's trades! Onwards & Upwards!

Good day Ladies, Sirs & Lurkers!
Mike

ps: Can't believe what a plonker I have been with such a basic misinterpretation!
 
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Thanx to both goldfinger and MikeD, you have been very helpful in my new adventure into the forex jungle.
goldfinger, for now i will stick with 'NT' as i know nothing else but will endeavor to slowly broaden my horizen.
Regards.
 
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Denman said:
Thanx to both goldfinger and MikeD, you have been very helpful in my new adventure into the forex jungle.
goldfinger, for now i will stick with NH as i know nothing else but will endeavor to slowly broaden my horizen.
Regards.
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NH? Oh my NED, is that yet another variant?
Come on Denman, spill, have you back tested it, is it Set and forget, and most importantly, will raise a big furore on here and the other place as examples of 'fiddling with the system'.
Or is it just a typo? :D

On the compounding question, I'd keep to 2% of the £3k bank, so risking £60 for 30 pips = £2/pip. The way to go for £3/pip is to let your bank increase exponentially, still keeping to 2%, and as someone else said recently, maybe even going to 1% as the bank increases - until you are on £3/pip, and go on from there - it wont be long before £3/pip is acheived, shorter still before £4 etc, etc- assuming the system remains profitable (or your deviations from it) on a monthly average of course - which is the most important point!
 
peterf1966 said:
NH? Oh my NED, is that yet another variant?
Come on Denman, spill, have you back tested it, is it Set and forget, and most importantly, will raise a big furore on here and the other place as examples of 'fiddling with the system'.
Or is it just a typo? :D

On the compounding question, I'd keep to 2% of the £3k bank, so risking £60 for 30 pips = £2/pip. The way to go for £3/pip is to let your bank increase exponentially, still keeping to 2%, and as someone else said recently, maybe even going to 1% as the bank increases - until you are on £3/pip, and go on from there - it wont be long before £3/pip is acheived, shorter still before £4 etc, etc- assuming the system remains profitable (or your deviations from it) on a monthly average of course - which is the most important point!
Click to expand...
:eek:
Evening Peter, yeah, typo...
Yeah, I have decided on two brokers, one for 'pure net-trap' with absolutley NO tweaks that I will 'play' at 3% and keep it strictly buisness and the other at 2% mainly applying INT but probably with added tweaks...
Kind regards.
 
Denman said:
:eek:
Evening Peter, yeah, typo...
Yeah, I have decided on two brokers, one for 'pure net-trap' with absolutley NO tweaks that I will 'play' at 3% and keep it strictly buisness and the other at 2% mainly applying INT but probably with added tweaks...
Kind regards.
Click to expand...

I see a lot have bitten the TNT bug now in whatever guise the 2nd trap is. But it's also good to see most also sticking with NT as the 1st trap even if it is tweaked slightly.

Of course Denman there are those like Hogs and Index1 that will just point out that infact you are not dealing two accounts @ 2% & 3% a trade but one @ 5% as the trade systems are so close, assuming similar pot sizes of course.

I say it's funny they where quick to put me down Thursday when INT got 25 and NT got 50 saying it's really only 37.5 pips becasue you effectively scaled 50% of the trade, but then when INT got 25 and NT 20 on Friday they remained silent when I asked it this now means some positive scaling rule where infact "effectively" I should have won more than more than 45 pips?

Anyway I doubt we will see an answer, you do what you want m8, as long as you are happy with the risks. For the next week I am still on 4%MM and it has done me no harm in a very crappy NT period because I tweaked and TNTed to positive effect.

But my pot is increasing 4 fold on the 12th after my 8 week learning program so I will be lowering to somewhere around 2% via TNT but only 1/2 of that each trade will be on NT until the world economy seems to level again. FTSE predicted to drop to 4500 or less before years end I reckon lots of Euro / US / UK /Global economy problems still for a good few years yet so I'm doubtful NT will return to it's glory days of Summer 2009 until we get another bull run, even a mini one, but that may be some way off yet.

M
 
mark120169 said:
I see a lot have bitten the TNT bug now in whatever guise the 2nd trap is. But it's also good to see most also sticking with NT as the 1st trap even if it is tweaked slightly.

Of course Denman there are those like Hogs and Index1 that will just point out that infact you are not dealing two accounts @ 2% & 3% a trade but one @ 5% as the trade systems are so close, assuming similar pot sizes of course.

I say it's funny they where quick to put me down Thursday when INT got 25 and NT got 50 saying it's really only 37.5 pips becasue you effectively scaled 50% of the trade, but then when INT got 25 and NT 20 on Friday they remained silent when I asked it this now means some positive scaling rule where infact "effectively" I should have won more than more than 45 pips?

Anyway I doubt we will see an answer, you do what you want m8, as long as you are happy with the risks. For the next week I am still on 4%MM and it has done me no harm in a very crappy NT period because I tweaked and TNTed to positive effect.

But my pot is increasing 4 fold on the 12th after my 8 week learning program so I will be lowering to somewhere around 2% via TNT but only 1/2 of that each trade will be on NT until the world economy seems to level again. FTSE predicted to drop to 4500 or less before years end I reckon lots of Euro / US / UK /Global economy problems still for a good few years yet so I'm doubtful NT will return to it's glory days of Summer 2009 until we get another bull run, even a mini one, but that may be some way off yet.

M
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Hello Mark,

No not kept silent, just not loked at this thread for a couple of days. Same applies. The trades are so similar that you're still really just risking 4% on one trade and scaling out. It's the same as if you went short eurusd at 2%, and long usdchf 2% at the same time. You're really taking a 4% risk on the same trade as they are so well correlated inversely. INT and NT are even closer still though as it's the same pair with a very minor difference on entry. So same applies.It's a 4% trade and scaling out half at 25 pips.(NT and MNT is exactly the same trade with scaling out at 10 pips) As for your trade on friday, you won 22.5 pips on your 4% risk, and if both had stopped out, it would have been -30 not -60 as you would have had to claim. Not rocket science.

Enjoy your weekend,

Mr Index.
 
mark120169 said:
I see a lot have bitten the TNT bug now in whatever guise the 2nd trap is. But it's also good to see most also sticking with NT as the 1st trap even if it is tweaked slightly.

Of course Denman there are those like Hogs and Index1 that will just point out that infact you are not dealing two accounts @ 2% & 3% a trade but one @ 5% as the trade systems are so close, assuming similar pot sizes of course.

I say it's funny they where quick to put me down Thursday when INT got 25 and NT got 50 saying it's really only 37.5 pips becasue you effectively scaled 50% of the trade, but then when INT got 25 and NT 20 on Friday they remained silent when I asked it this now means some positive scaling rule where infact "effectively" I should have won more than more than 45 pips?

Anyway I doubt we will see an answer, you do what you want m8, as long as you are happy with the risks. For the next week I am still on 4%MM and it has done me no harm in a very crappy NT period because I tweaked and TNTed to positive effect.

But my pot is increasing 4 fold on the 12th after my 8 week learning program so I will be lowering to somewhere around 2% via TNT but only 1/2 of that each trade will be on NT until the world economy seems to level again. FTSE predicted to drop to 4500 or less before years end I reckon lots of Euro / US / UK /Global economy problems still for a good few years yet so I'm doubtful NT will return to it's glory days of Summer 2009 until we get another bull run, even a mini one, but that may be some way off yet.

M
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Have to say I've been stung in the last 2 or 3 weeks by effectively going to 4%MM by trying out MNT as well as NT. Really bad timing, when MNT took the big losses along with NT. But it matters to me 'cos I went up to £5 per pip in May so I took a massive hit the last couple of weeks. I'm licking my wounds and sticking to pure NT, and seeing my loss slowly eroded. When I'm comfortably in the black, I will experiment with MNT, INT, but my experience has really shown me how important the 2% rule is, especially when you are using major funds.

Mark
 
Hi to All, weird, but I sort of agree to all of the above posts.
I am hoping that pure NT will average 25ps a week over at least a couple of years.(Ihave faith the size of a mustard seed!) I am hoping to INVEST £3,000, and if these Guys are correct it could make me a healthy £100,000 (where else can a 'care-worker' raise that sort of cash?)
As for MINT-INT et-al, I will play with about £200 and just use it to increase my forex knowledge.
Good Luck all ..
 
me1234 said:
Have to say I've been stung in the last 2 or 3 weeks by effectively going to 4%MM by trying out MNT as well as NT. Really bad timing, when MNT took the big losses along with NT. But it matters to me 'cos I went up to £5 per pip in May so I took a massive hit the last couple of weeks. I'm licking my wounds and sticking to pure NT, and seeing my loss slowly eroded. When I'm comfortably in the black, I will experiment with MNT, INT, but my experience has really shown me how important the 2% rule is, especially when you are using major funds.

Mark
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MNT actually helped me in june quite a lot, but then I started using it early on once I had thought of it and run it on a demo acc a bit. But also what really helped me too was the whole episode of the 7/6/10 when loads of us got stopped out for 0.4 of a pip on a sell order. After that and finding out why from the 8/6/10 I switched all my sell orders on MNT & NT to a 33 stop.

So on buy orders I was running MNT / NT on sell orders I was running MNT33S /NT33S. Despite the one really bad week where we all ot caught out running these two as TNT33S along with trialing stops really helped me out.

I also went from 20p to £1 a pip in June and am goingto £4 pip soon in July so if I was going to play it was June. And it worked out ok.

I did bang on about 33s and added the line about it every day in my MNT update so peeps could make a decision for themselves.

I have switched to INT now for July as it had a good June, better than MNT. So will trial this for next week then decide which way I want to go for £4 pip.

But I still plan to report MNT33S (only) results for July for those that have an interest in it.

To be honest it is about being unlucky when you started trialing something. I can tell you from my data had you trialed INT from 17/5/10 you would have been -130 pips by 1/6/10. That might have killed it off quick time for even GF777, but as it happens when it was discovered this period was past and it was on a winning streak.

However balancing out on 7 weeks of tading INT is ahead by miles from anything else. Swings and roundabouts.

M
 
mark120169 said:
MNT actually helped me in june quite a lot, but then I started using it early on once I had thought of it and run it on a demo acc a bit. But also what really helped me too was the whole episode of the 7/6/10 when loads of us got stopped out for 0.4 of a pip on a sell order. After that and finding out why from the 8/6/10 I switched all my sell orders on MNT & NT to a 33 stop.

So on buy orders I was running MNT / NT on sell orders I was running MNT33S /NT33S. Despite the one really bad week where we all ot caught out running these two as TNT33S along with trialing stops really helped me out.

I also went from 20p to £1 a pip in June and am goingto £4 pip soon in July so if I was going to play it was June. And it worked out ok.

I did bang on about 33s and added the line about it every day in my MNT update so peeps could make a decision for themselves.

I have switched to INT now for July as it had a good June, better than MNT. So will trial this for next week then decide which way I want to go for £4 pip.

But I still plan to report MNT33S (only) results for July for those that have an interest in it.

To be honest it is about being unlucky when you started trialing something. I can tell you from my data had you trialed INT from 17/5/10 you would have been -130 pips by 1/6/10. That might have killed it off quick time for even GF777, but as it happens when it was discovered this period was past and it was on a winning streak.

However balancing out on 7 weeks of tading INT is ahead by miles from anything else. Swings and roundabouts.

M
Click to expand...

10p, £1 or £50 a pip is all irrelevant. As long as you are trading at a risk level you are comfortable with is all that matters. For me it's 2% max, 4% and more and you will see massive drawdowns whatever system you use, unless you've found the Holy Grail. :p
 
Just to reinforce Tenapenny's very good point above, IMHO it's a mistake to live trade 2 variants at the same time, UNLESS you still keep the same 2%MM, 1% for one variant, and 1% for the other.

That is what is really killing you, it's not necessarily the success or failure of any single variant, it's the % of your bank that you're risking, and the effect this has on you psychologically. That is why you are still licking your wounds me1234.

1 month both your variants might be profitable. The next month they might both be in a loss. On average over those 2 months you might still be in a profit. But PSYCHOLOGICALLY it's very difficult for any trader to take this long-term view, especially when we're trading pretty much every day, and having to take the psychological hit of win or lose on a daily basis.

This is a point that has been well made by Wagtail on this forum. He's backtested NT and the variants and discovered that although NT is more profitable in the LONG TERM (e.g. over the period of a year or so), PSYCHOLOGICALLY it's more difficult to trade on a DAY TO DAY BASIS because you experience more losses than you would with a variant such as INT or MNT33S.

So which system you decide to trade should all come down to your own personal trading psychology. Those of you that are patient and relatively risk-averse and willing to take the LONG TERM view will probably benefit from sticking to vanilla NT.

Personally I prefer INT to vanilla NT because although it doesn't quite gain as many points IN THE LONG TERM, it's easier to trade psychologically day in day out, because it WINS MORE OFTEN.

So by all means choose the variant or variants that match your own personality, but please seriously consider restricting yourself to 2%MM TOTAL, because suitable risk management is the SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT FACTOR IN LONG-TERM TRADING SUCCESS.
 
If you haven't got the patience to use a sensible % risk then I'm afraid your trading dreams will be short lived. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt. Then I woke up. The market doesn't care, it will take you out.
 

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mark120169 said:
MNT actually helped me in june quite a lot, but then I started using it early on once I had thought of it and run it on a demo acc a bit. But also what really helped me too was the whole episode of the 7/6/10 when loads of us got stopped out for 0.4 of a pip on a sell order. After that and finding out why from the 8/6/10 I switched all my sell orders on MNT & NT to a 33 stop.

So on buy orders I was running MNT / NT on sell orders I was running MNT33S /NT33S. Despite the one really bad week where we all ot caught out running these two as TNT33S along with trialing stops really helped me out.

I also went from 20p to £1 a pip in June and am goingto £4 pip soon in July so if I was going to play it was June. And it worked out ok.

I did bang on about 33s and added the line about it every day in my MNT update so peeps could make a decision for themselves.

I have switched to INT now for July as it had a good June, better than MNT. So will trial this for next week then decide which way I want to go for £4 pip.

But I still plan to report MNT33S (only) results for July for those that have an interest in it.

To be honest it is about being unlucky when you started trialing something. I can tell you from my data had you trialed INT from 17/5/10 you would have been -130 pips by 1/6/10. That might have killed it off quick time for even GF777, but as it happens when it was discovered this period was past and it was on a winning streak.

However balancing out on 7 weeks of tading INT is ahead by miles from anything else. Swings and roundabouts.

M
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HI mqrk
great reading by the way
what is int total for the year i am very interested in trading this system has anyone backtested this yet
To me this makes more sense than pure nt as whenever i have placed a order it always seems to get matched before droping 30 pips
Chhers
 
Rugby Trader said:
Has RH answered anyone yet with regards to the contentious trade/non-trade from last Friday yet?
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Nope. And as a 2nd kicker I never received my official round up email and have chased for this by email too to no avail. Had to get another nutter to forward it to me. I have also noticed on the SFT forum others compalining they never gotlast weeks round up email and it wasn't in their spam flter or junk mail.

If I don't get one tomorrow I will kick off.

M
 
stevepatt said:
I find it quite worrying that some of you are trading NT variants without doing any back testing yourselves. The only way you can be sure it will work for you is to do the back testing yourselves; below is a link to chart sofware that can be used for back testing.
I wouldn't trade anything that I hadn't tested for myself.

http://www.fxsolutions.com/fxaccucharts/accucharts-download.asp
Click to expand...

:LOL: Our motto is "We live trial our tweaks so you don't have to!"

M
 
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