Quick Question for Experienced Traders

[spreader_legger]

Skill Leverage,.....having just read your comment,..me thinks you have a long way to go before you raise the bar,..keep giving advice though, if it makes you feel good! : )
Tip for anyone day trading forex,...use the five minute charts

All chaos is order in disguise.

Nah ... 1 minute is the best ..... especially for newbies! More action!

 

[virtuos0]

This process always involves some bubble bursting, but to say a thing like "the chances are you are just going to blow up" isn't useful to me.

You aren't capable of determining what is useful to you at this stage of your trading career. Hence you are about to listen to a pile of crap advice.

Any by the way I'm not negative, I'm honest. Truth is at a premium around here.

But saying that you sound pretty intelligent so no doubt you'll work it out in the long run.

 

[Martinghoul]

It's easily achievable by people like the K-1 fund and SP Trader...

 

[Shakone]

kugan, the reason I don't like daily targets is because they put too much pressure on the trader to get them, and that pressure is unlikely to help. If you haven't hit your target and it is 30 mins before the close, will you suddenly take a trade to try to get that 4% even though it isn't a good setup? That is counter-productive.

So if you really do want to have targets, you should set them over a longer period. Have a monthly target for example. Then even a bad day, and you won't feel pressured, because you've still got plenty of time to hit your target. Try to make 20% a month. That to me is much more reasonable. Don't underestimate how difficult it can be though. Hillary may say once you've mastered something then of course it is easy. That may be true. But if someone can handle superstring theory, that does not mean it is easy for someone else starting out learning it.

As with all things though, try it for yourself. Easy to get a demo account, and prove to yourself how easy (or not) it is to make 4% a day. Also try not to risk more than 2% per trade.

 

[Masquerade]

--Masquerade, thanks for your reply. Psychology I imagine is a large part of it, and another area for me to develop discipline in. How's your trading going, if you don't mind me asking, and do you have a daily target for yourself?

No daily target. If I don't see a trade/feel like trading I won't bother. In fact I haven't really traded last 2 days much. I have a more modest % i'd like to make in a month as opposed to your target. It'll still be a good sum if I can stay close to targets and that way I don't put extra pressure on myself to trade in a day.

It's all a head-game. I'm fairly comfortable with the swings. I've experienced days of winning/losing 20% in a day, but I think i'll change things a little bit and reduce the risk. You will have losing days though and that's something you'll have to realise and as your size increases by logic your potential losses will too (obviously) which is what you need to master if you stand any chance of hitting those numbers.

 

[Paul71]

Afternoon all,

Thanks for all the replies, keep them coming. The purpose of this thread is for lil ol' n00b me to learn your opinions on what is realistic, and what isn't, identifying the potentials, and identifying the skills and disciplines I'd need to go about exploiting them. So!

-- Virtuos0, having a look through your other posts you seem to be a person that considers pessimism to only be realism. I'm not sure how good a trader you are, and although I'm certain you've more experience in trading than me, calling the figures daft for being large isn't particularly useful to me. As I said, I am new to trading, and am looking to understand the potentials involved. This process always involves some bubble bursting, but to say a thing like "the chances are you are just going to blow up" isn't useful to me, and implies your method of exploring potentials is by delineating previous failures and marking them as rigid limits.

--Rhody Trader, Mr Forman, sir, your dispassionate bubble bursting was more appreciated, thank you. I also had a look at your book on amazon, is there a distributor for the book in the U.K?

--Shakone, thanks for your reply. If you don't think daily targets are a good idea, what would you consider a realistic weekly target? Or perhaps even a monthly target?

--jaketraderboy, thanks for your reply. Do you now compound your profits?

--Skill Leverage, thanks for your reply (and for defending my intelligence!). What would you consider a more realistic daily target? The 4% target, if it was too high, was one I picked quickly for the calculations; mostly because I found a few posters on these forums averaging 30-50 pip/day profits. If I were to become as competent (ambition!) traders as they claim to be, using the current spread betting platform I use now, the minimum £/pip stake across most instruments is £3, and 4% then seems not so ridiculous.

--Masquerade, thanks for your reply. Psychology I imagine is a large part of it, and another area for me to develop discipline in. How's your trading going, if you don't mind me asking, and do you have a daily target for yourself?

--Hilarymannah, your profile says that you're male, which are you? Just curious. I looked it up and apparently Hilary was originally a Latin boy's name- Hilarius. Trivia! Thanks for your reply, I appreciate the support just as much as the naysayers for my learning about trading, but obviously...encouragement is more pleasant to hear! I also didn't appreciate Virtuos0's next comment, which seemed to be informed more by pessimism or personal bitterness than experience. How's your trading going, if you don't mind me asking, and do you have a daily target for yourself? And do you compound your profits?

Thanks again!

Hi koogs,

To be honest mate i found that i was my biggest obstacle, and still am, if you get my drift. The sky is your limit and maybe beyond, who you will meet up there depends on the other individual. Whatever you do though, never let anybody else set your personal limits for you, that would be a real traversty. Goodluck.

 

[Hilarymannah]

Kugan,..I don't really take a lot of notice of the money,..I target pips per day (won't say,..folk will only try and burn me at the stake)
I started off with a twenty pip target, and found it hard with the system I'd been taught.
Spent two yrs of study, to perfect my own "way",.and the rest is history.
BTW:I now average twenty pips before I've finished my first cup of coffee for the day!
Oh,.and before I forget, I'm a geezer !

 

[GladiatorX]

I mis-read question.

1. Yes there are traders that can achieve that

My problem is why you should actually be considering such a question?
Maybe in 1000+ hours of experience you can consider whether you should try up your daily gain, if by then you are at the stage of ANY consistant profitability; but until then, forget random figures, like scoring 100 goals per match in the premiership.

 

[GladiatorX]

You're as clueless and fake as they come.

Virtuous0 was absolutely correct in his first comment and i don't know why there would be further discussion except from people trying to manipulate the conservation so that it implies that it is possible for the likes of a new trader and therefore, almost speaking/lieing to themeselves, they create hope with their small amount of money of making a nice return...

 

[GladiatorX]

Kugan,..I hope you're taking heed, and noticing how the folk who find it hard to make 4% per day seem to be getting quite irrate.
Emotions and ego play a large part in trading,..some take longer to learn this fundamental truth than others.
Keep an eye on the price,..it'll always tell you when to pull the trigger!

Hilary, the TOP 10 traders in the S&P 500 PIT don't make 4% a day, never mind EASILY;

 

[Hilarymannah]

Virtuoso and Gladiator,..love the pseudonyms by the way!
Even if I thought you both clueless and fake, I wouldn't post it on a forum.
(I guess we all have our crosses to bare)
I do wonder why so many folk project themselves so readily though.
A good bit of advice might be to study the input/output model,..
BTW: Why do you both find it so hard to make 4% gains on your capital per day,..explain and I might be able to help!
Name calling isn't really very constructive,.huh

 

[barjon]

Hilary, the TOP 10 traders in the S&P 500 PIT don't make 4% a day, never mind EASILY;

Kugan

If you want some sound advice then start off with this one as a base.

One of those who reckons it's easy was paper trading in late February and even if he moved in with real money straight afterwards all he has is a flea-bite of experience.

Take care and lower your sights.

good trading

jon

 

[Masquerade]

Hilary, the TOP 10 traders in the S&P 500 PIT don't make 4% a day, never mind EASILY;

Is that because they can't or because their risk dept doesn't allow them to?

 

[GladiatorX]

Virtuoso and Gladiator,..love the pseudonyms by the way!
Even if I thought you both clueless and fake, I wouldn't post it on a forum.
(I guess we all have our crosses to bare)
I do wonder why so many folk project themselves so readily though.
A good bit of advice might be to study the input/output model,..
BTW: Why do you both find it so hard to make 4% gains on your capital per day,..explain and I might be able to help!
Name calling isn't really very constructive,.huh

I found that quite patronising but i appreciate that you are willing to help...
1. I actually don't know what pseudonyms means, but atleast i'm honest.

If you can show me how to trade stocks and the E-mini S&P500 with 4% gains everyday then i'd actually really appreciate that. So go ahead since its so easy.
Margin requirements per contract on the ESZ9 is $500 for me and stocks is non-leveraged. So lets work with them figures.

 

[GladiatorX]

Is that because they can't or because their risk dept doesn't allow them to?

I don't know... But when you consider HOW they trade and there MARGIN/LEVERAGE, to achieve that on a day in, day out consistantly would be a difficult, very difficult feat, not an easy task and also very risky.

(I'm talking locals, not institutions btw)

 

[Paul71]

What is the big dow contract value, it's about $250 i think, it's been years since i last traded it?:cheesy:

 

[Hilarymannah]

Gladiator,..Have a look at my profile, it explains my methods and market.
I've never looked at the E-mini or S&P500 charts, so I'm clueless and fake regarding those,..but I did state that forex was my niche.
I'll help anyone who asks for help, but it seems I've become a sort of heretic, never mind,..I'm sure I'll get over it : (

 

[GladiatorX]

What is the big dow contract value, it's about $250 i think, it's been years since i last traded it?:cheesy:

Big Dow Contract margin;
$32,500 (Thats outright)
$25 per index point movement.
$375 intra-day margin.

S&P is $250x S&P500 index point.

Someone please correct me if these are the wrong figures.

 

[dcraig1]

My guess, is most folk who find it hard to acheive 4% ROI per day will try and slander my advice.

A perfect example of why anybody with a bit of common sense will ignore 95% (at least) of what is posted on these threads.

My trusty Linux desktop calculator tells me that compounded (over 250 trading days) is an annualized return of 18,127.37%

I call nonsense, unless of course you have documentary evidence that you would care to share with us all?

 

[amit1986]

4% daily consistent profits is quite a remarkable, yet achievable, feat. Think of it this way: If you're a full-time day trader on US stocks, then given you have a day trading account with a direct access broker, you'll be making $1200 per day (assuming a $30,000 account). There are 252 trading days a year. If you trade everyday, then on average, you can expect to make 252*1200 = $302,000 USD in a year. Now, that is quite a good income to live off of.

The question is, though, how do you get $1200 a day? More importantly, how do you make that sort of money consistently, daily? That's where experience and discipline kick in. Many US stocks move many dollars daily. Find two stocks that move roughly 60 cents each and trade 1000 shares of each (which will most likely require access to a margin account) and you're done for the day.

Of course, the math looks quite nice. Unfortunately, the trick is being to find those two stocks and knowing when to enter/exit to catch the appropriate size move. This is also where experience comes into play.

In summary, while the goal you have set is achievable, don't focus on it too much when starting out trading. If you focus too much on the money, then you'll be putting too much pressure on your trading to meet a certain daily percentage return. This, in-turn, will lead you to taking sub-standard trades in the event you do not meet your targets.

Channel your energy and focus, instead, on learning. Find/create a strategy/system that works for you (I recommend you find one that is already in use since you know it works and people are making money off of it), and just stick to it. Eventually, you'll learn when the strategy works and when it doesn't work and this will help you in meeting your goal in the long run.

Just my two cents

Amit