Qualifications needed?

[tomhunter]

Hello

Im interesting in going down the trader courier path and have afew questions:

Im currently studying A levels doing Business, economics and ICT

Should i be doing maths? It looks like lots of universities want it in order to do economics courses?


Thanks

Ps. What are the trading companies looking for more highly regarded qualifications or someone who can already trade profitably?

 

[Depth Trade]

Hello

Im interesting in going down the trader courier path and have afew questions:

Im currently studying A levels doing Business, economics and ICT

Should i be doing maths? It looks like lots of universities want it in order to do economics courses?


Thanks

Ps. What are the trading companies looking for more highly regarded qualifications or someone who can already trade profitably?

One needs zero qualifications. You just need to know exactly what your talking about or be more capable then the next person.
I would say economics is a waste of time if you want to trade. Mechanical engineering or Gas/ desiel engine mechanics.

One needs to be able to back engineer and forwards work the mechanics of the markets. You really need to be able to visualise how products mesh and move each other like the gears in a car engine.

DT

 

[Depth Trade]

Thinking it over, I think the statement 'waste' of time was a poor choice of words.

No education is a waste of time. I commend you on your accomplishments so far and think you have alot of integrity for wanting to follow what would be thought of as the 'normal route'.

I just think that 99% of what will be covered in Eco/Fin degrees will have no relevance to actual trading.

Tom, deep down you already know everything you need to know to trade. You just need to be able to filter out what it is that has no relevance.

As for math, it's not more complicated than basic math skills.

The thing to study is spreads and butterflys.

Butterflys are not mathmatically complicated, but impossible to grasp if one has no idea what they are.
So I would say spend your time reading and study trade strategies and technics accociated with trading.

Every hour studying something that is irrelevent to trading is an hour lost.

The most important thing is to Believe in your self.

DT

 

[tomhunter]

Thanks alot

Ok basically this is what im thinking:

Over the next few years I will put my time into learning much more about trading, i was formerly a high level poker player and so have many of the basic disciplines already, ie money managment, discipline.

But im thinkng the quickest way to become a sucess it to at least at first trade for a company, otherwise even if iam a successful trader with little capital it would take a long time to get going.

So in order to get a trainee positon for a company ill need a first in some sort economics (even thou it may not help loads it'll be what the companys look for right?)

Or are companies more interested in people who can already trade sucessfully?

Thank You very much

ps. Whats the best type of economics degree for trading economics and econometrics?

 

[tomhunter]

So I would say spend your time reading and study trade strategies and technics accociated with trading.

Every hour studying something that is irrelevent to trading is an hour lost.

But won't companies be looking for people with qualifications more than current trading ability?

On looking in your profile you've had jobs with these osrt of firms before right? Then how do you demonstrate trading ability to them, if you have no qualifications.

Thanks alot btw

 

[tomhunter]

think you have alot of integrity for wanting to follow what would be thought of as the 'normal route'.


DT

Cheers for all the help, just out of intrest would a normal route be through education and an abnormal one be through trading ability alone?

Cheers

 

[crazybrab]

Go do a degree - I wanted to be a trader since the age of fifteen. having got A*s at GCSEs and a sweep of 5 A's at A-levels including Further Maths, I thought I knew it all to be the *star trader* but how very wrong that would have been. Parents persuaded me to go to uni and do a degree(economics & econometrics @ Bristol). Most of the economics degree was pointless, but found the applied financial and applied econometric modules extremely useful when trying to understand the markets. I'd also add that the experience of being three years at uni makes you realize who competitive the city really is and how hard you need to fight to succeed. Many of my peers with Firsts or upper seconds and exemplary CVs were never noticed by banks and city firms. Compare your three A-levels and uni? against the typical 'graduate pool'

If you want to do a degree as closely related to the financial markets as possible, then I recommend you check out the Bsc in International Securities, Investment and Banking at the Reading ICMA Centre.

In the mean time, I recommend you should try to gain advantages over your peers already at this time. You might consider the following:
1. completing the Diploma in Technical Analysis at with the UK Society of technical analysts. (not difficult or time-consuming)
2. " " the Level 3 Certificate in Investment Management UKSIP (as above)
3. gaining as much 'screen time' as possible by following the markets and pulling some trades.
4. Download as many legal books as you can from sources like emule and DC++ ;-) I hereby take no responsibility for your actions ;-)

Go out there and gain an advantage whilst you still can and good luck!

 

[Depth Trade]

Tom, there are so many types of people (employers) out there. It can be hard to access what some one is looking for.
At least you'll have your education to fall back on if needed.

There are traders that have gone to the finest Uni's in the U.K. that won't hire one with any less and there are traders that have grown up on farms and know everything there is to know about grains. They know why it's growing, how long the season will last, what the outcome of the crop will be. They might know more than anyone else and have never worn any other shoes except for a pair of boots. This guys don't trust the one's in suits and vise versa.

I've meet firms that won't even interview you unless you have multiple degrees and I have meet dropouts that are running the trade floor.

Finding employment is like what people say about learning to trade, it's all a test of one's self. It's all about being able to look into one's self and communicate it to others.

Some times this world makes no sense, none.

Humans perception is one thing that can be impossible to understand. One person won't hire you because they believe your not educated enough, the other won't hire because your too educated and you could pose a threat to there job.

The only way around this is persistence. Know what you want and come to the conclusion that no one is going to keep you from reaching your goals.

If some doesn't want you, walk down the street and knock on the next door.

There are many ways a person is judged. It might come down to your hand shake, the look in your eyes and the amount of confidence you have.

Remember the guys at the top have seen it all. They'll know whether you have 'it' or not just by talking to you.

Find someone that will give you a break, it happens everyday.

DT

 

[tomhunter]

Go do a degree - I wanted to be a trader since the age of fifteen. having got A*s at GCSEs and a sweep of 5 A's at A-levels including Further Maths, I thought I knew it all to be the *star trader* but how very wrong that would have been. Parents persuaded me to go to uni and do a degree(economics & econometrics @ Bristol). Most of the economics degree was pointless, but found the applied financial and applied econometric modules extremely useful when trying to understand the markets. I'd also add that the experience of being three years at uni makes you realize who competitive the city really is and how hard you need to fight to succeed. Many of my peers with Firsts or upper seconds and exemplary CVs were never noticed by banks and city firms. Compare your three A-levels and uni? against the typical 'graduate pool'

If you want to do a degree as closely related to the financial markets as possible, then I recommend you check out the Bsc in International Securities, Investment and Banking at the Reading ICMA Centre.

In the mean time, I recommend you should try to gain advantages over your peers already at this time. You might consider the following:
1. completing the Diploma in Technical Analysis at with the UK Society of technical analysts. (not difficult or time-consuming)
2. " " the Level 3 Certificate in Investment Management UKSIP (as above)
3. gaining as much 'screen time' as possible by following the markets and pulling some trades.
4. Download as many legal books as you can from sources like emule and DC++ ;-) I hereby take no responsibility for your actions ;-)

Go out there and gain an advantage whilst you still can and good luck!

Hey

Thanks alot great advice

So where can i do these courses "1. completing the Diploma in Technical Analysis at with the UK Society of technical analysts. (not difficult or time-consuming)
2. " " the Level 3 Certificate in Investment Management UKSIP (as above)" do i have to travel to london? What age can they be done at?



With regards to the uni course you said is " Bsc in International Securities, Investment and Banking at the Reading ICMA Centre." 1 course at reading university?

Thanks

 

[tomhunter]

Go do a degree - I wanted to be a trader since the age of fifteen. having got A*s at GCSEs and a sweep of 5 A's at A-levels including Further Maths, I thought I knew it all to be the *star trader* but how very wrong that would have been. Parents persuaded me to go to uni and do a degree(economics & econometrics @ Bristol). Most of the economics degree was pointless, but found the applied financial and applied econometric modules extremely useful when trying to understand the markets. I'd also add that the experience of being three years at uni makes you realize who competitive the city really is and how hard you need to fight to succeed. Many of my peers with Firsts or upper seconds and exemplary CVs were never noticed by banks and city firms. Compare your three A-levels and uni? against the typical 'graduate pool'

If you want to do a degree as closely related to the financial markets as possible, then I recommend you check out the Bsc in International Securities, Investment and Banking at the Reading ICMA Centre.

In the mean time, I recommend you should try to gain advantages over your peers already at this time. You might consider the following:
1. completing the Diploma in Technical Analysis at with the UK Society of technical analysts. (not difficult or time-consuming)
2. " " the Level 3 Certificate in Investment Management UKSIP (as above)
3. gaining as much 'screen time' as possible by following the markets and pulling some trades.
4. Download as many legal books as you can from sources like emule and DC++ ;-) I hereby take no responsibility for your actions ;-)

Go out there and gain an advantage whilst you still can and good luck!

One more thing how have you ended up after all those qualifications and the economics and econometrics degree? Are you looking for a trainee positon?

Thanks

 

[tomhunter]

If you want to do a degree as closely related to the financial markets as possible, then I recommend you check out the Bsc in International Securities, Investment and Banking at the Reading ICMA Centre.

wow how did you find out about this course?

It looks just the thing, are there courses similar to this avaliable or is this the only uk course specific to market trading?

Thanks alot

 

[NotQuiteRandom]

Hi,

I will start by stating my credentials and then answer your question properly.

I have worked as a trader, a financial researcher and an investment manager for five years since graduating with a masters in finance from a leading business school. I have also attained several financial professional qualifications in both the UK and US. For the last 2 years I have carried out technical interviews with traders and researchers for a hedge fund and advised several other hedge funds, an investment bank and a major brokerage on recruitment.

I can not state this clearly enough: YOU MUST BE WELL EDUCATED.

There are no short cuts.

I look for people with at least a masters degree - or just an undergrad if they have a top First - and 50% of those I have seen have PhDs. Preferred subjects include Maths, finance, economics, statistics, physics and econometrics.

Many people hate hearing this, mainly because they have not undergone the rigours of a proper education and believe that the world is how it was 20 years ago when any barrow boy with an O level in maths could be a trader. Such people are the exception now - certainly not the rule. It is very poor form to tell someone that this business is about anything but hard work and good academics.

If you want any sensible career advice please feel free to private message me.

All the best.

NQR

 

[Depth Trade]

Hi,

I will start by stating my credentials and then answer your question properly.

I have worked as a trader, a financial researcher and an investment manager for five years since graduating with a masters in finance from a leading business school. I have also attained several financial professional qualifications in both the UK and US. For the last 2 years I have carried out technical interviews with traders and researchers for a hedge fund and advised several other hedge funds, an investment bank and a major brokerage on recruitment.

I can not state this clearly enough: YOU MUST BE WELL EDUCATED.

There are no short cuts.

I look for people with at least a masters degree - or just an undergrad if they have a top First - and 50% of those I have seen have PhDs. Preferred subjects include Maths, finance, economics, statistics, physics and econometrics.

Many people hate hearing this, mainly because they have not undergone the rigours of a proper education and believe that the world is how it was 20 years ago when any barrow boy with an O level in maths could be a trader. Such people are the exception now - certainly not the rule. It is very poor form to tell someone that this business is about anything but hard work and good academics.

If you want any sensible career advice please feel free to private message me.

All the best.

NQR

" " Says the guy with zero trades made and no credentials.

Think about it. If one could go and be educated on how to trade everyone would just go out and get Eco/Fin degrees and be traders. Everyone would be working for themselves and there would be no money left to be made.

The only people that are really killing the market are one's thinking outside the box.

"Many people hate hearing this"



DT


DT

 

[NotQuiteRandom]

" " Says the guy with zero trades made and no credentials.

Think about it. If one could go and be educated on how to trade everyone would just go out and get Eco/Fin degrees and be traders. Everyone would be working for themselves and there would be no money left to be made.

The only people that are really killing the market are one's thinking outside the box.

"Many people hate hearing this"

These people NQR is talking about are only making money off interest. Put them in a situation were % gained on holding is even accross the pairs and they could never make money.




DT

I'm afraid that I do not understand much of your post but that may be a function of your inability to articulate yourself as a consequence of your lack of education.

The trading that I personally do and have always run for organisations is statistically driven. For my own account I am a keen trader of US equity and index options and FX. For work I have focuses more on statistical arbitrage systems and vol trading.

There are many reasons why everyone does not get educated and become a trader. The first and second are certainly inclination and mental ability, the third may be the cost of education.

Thinking outside the box requires an ability to understand where the box is and that there are more to markets than guessing the next trend.

In response to your claim that institutional and sophisticated private traders only make money from interest I can assure you that I have never traded a fixed income instrument (except derivatives thereon) in my life.

I regret that you have no education in the field and are ignorant enough to try to bring this young lad to your level.

I do not wish to engage in a protracted mud slinging contest on this forum and have nothing further to say on the matter except that education is a crucial part of obtaining a decent job in the financial markets. A reading of my past posts and yours will leave people in no doubt as to who the educated party is and who knows more about trading and finance.

Cheers,

NQR

 

[Depth Trade]

I'm afraid that I do not understand much of your post but that may be a function of your inability to articulate yourself as a consequence of your lack of education.

The trading that I personally do and have always run for organisations is statistically driven. For my own account I am a keen trader of US equity and index options and FX. For work I have focuses more on statistical arbitrage systems and vol trading.

There are many reasons why everyone does not get educated and become a trader. The first and second are certainly inclination and mental ability, the third may be the cost of education.

Thinking outside the box requires an ability to understand where the box is and that there are more to markets than guessing the next trend.

In response to your claim that institutional and sophisticated private traders only make money from interest I can assure you that I have never traded a fixed income instrument (except derivatives thereon) in my life.

I regret that you have no education in the field and are ignorant enough to try to bring this young lad to your level.

I do not wish to engage in a protracted mud slinging contest on this forum and have nothing further to say on the matter except that education is a crucial part of obtaining a decent job in the financial markets. A reading of my past posts and yours will leave people in no doubt as to who the educated party is and who knows more about trading and finance.

Cheers,

NQR

Quantifying education is a loaded statement.

Of course you have nothing to say, your profile says it all;

"Trading Style:
Try not to get killed "

You really don't know anything.

I can Flat line this market instantly. All I need to do is post
Why, How and When the players are positioning.

This would cause all brokers to have to hedge the opposite side and except the loss. The market is about to be turned upside down and you don't even know it or understand.

When this happens the only people making money will be trading complex butterflys that are unknown to the masses and characterized by the individual.

DT

 

[NotQuiteRandom]

It is a testimony to your subjective approach to analysis that you elect to reproduce the only 'tongue in cheek' element of my profile when the rest is more informative.

I fail to understand much of what you post. Do you have a preferred language in which you feel more comfortable communicating? Please try me on it if you do.

As to your claim that I 'really don't know anything' - I have nothing to say. The evidence speaks for itself.

Cheers,

NQR

 

[Depth Trade]

It is a testimony to your subjective approach to analysis that you elect to reproduce the only 'tongue in cheek' element of my profile when the rest is more informative.

I fail to understand much of what you post. Do you have a preferred language in which you feel more comfortable communicating? Please try me on it if you do.

As to your claim that I 'really don't know anything' - I have nothing to say. The evidence speaks for itself.

Cheers,

NQR

The evidence speaks for itself.

Yes it really does, your all Talk and no walk.

Your so ignorant and narrow minded that you can't even hire or recruit someone based on what they know. You need a 3 person to qualify someone for the position. You admit to not being able to qualify them yourself.

You really end up doing nothing, you just look at a resume and pick the person with more ink on the page.

People like you are a 'dime a dozen'

Zero innovation.



DT

 

[NotQuiteRandom]

The bitter words of the ill educated.

Education does not so much qualify people as train them to think in a rigorous fashion. I don't expect a broker's clerk to understand this though.

I have nothing to sell here, no agenda other than passing time to relax when I get brain overload from working. I do hope that your insistence that education is bad does not affect your sales. I wouldn't let a clerk trade my money. Having reviewed your performance on your site I suggest that you stop before you lose more than you can afford to.

We seem to digress... the point is that the kid who started this post should certainly get a decent education if he wishes to get the kind of job that he mentions. On this issue, I fail to see that you can disagree.

Let us now draw a line under this as we both have better things to do and this does not help anyone in the T2W community. If you like, you may have the last word by posting one more of your messages hailing long hair, beards and no education. Please also feel free to insult me - I will not respond.

Cheers,

NQR

 

[Depth Trade]

The bitter words of the ill educated.

Education does not so much qualify people as train them to think in a rigorous fashion. I don't expect a broker's clerk to understand this though.

I have nothing to sell here, no agenda other than passing time to relax when I get brain overload from working. I do hope that your insistence that education is bad does not affect your sales. I wouldn't let a clerk trade my money. Having reviewed your performance on your site I suggest that you stop before you lose more than you can afford to.

We seem to digress... the point is that the kid who started this post should certainly get a decent education if he wishes to get the kind of job that he mentions. On this issue, I fail to see that you can disagree.

Let us now draw a line under this as we both have better things to do and this does not help anyone in the T2W community. If you like, you may have the last word by posting one more of your messages hailing long hair, beards and no education. Please also feel free to insult me - I will not respond.

Cheers,

NQR

The last word, sure I'll take it.

Prove yourself.

As for my site, like I said. I can add liquidity and volume at no risk to volatility. Then trade a different strategy.

As for clerking, I haven't clerked for years and it's a better education then you'll ever have.

I have people contacting my weekly about employment. On monday I have a interview with one of the largest trade houses on the west coast specializing in Technology. They have I huge monopoly on IPO's being released.

I'm about to release more information on the dynamics of the FX market then you ever knew existed.

Your the exact reason this market is about to be turned upside down, just to watch you loss everything you have invested in FX.

Watch me release information, then watch the market go completely 'haywire'.

End note; you ridiculed me first. I responded first to the post and you responded by referencing me.

NQR I put people like you out of business everyday.

D.T.

 

[grantx]

NQR,

Regarding the position for an index arbitrageur.

I have spent around a total of 15 years in various correctional centres for armed robbery, assault with a deadly weapon, attempted murder, etc.

I can make a fortune - if the market is going up, buy; if down, sell. If I make a loss and the money is deducted from the trading account, I'll blow his mother-*ucking head off.

So give me the job, or blow your m-f head off.

Thank our attention. I look forward to hearing you.

Grant Soprano.