price & stops

[firewalker99]

.... The difference between Grey1's and my methods are; he recommends wider stops and reduced position size whereas I recommend normal position size and stops but better entries and as per my example, makes a difference of $2000.

So I think the extra concentration on stops = better entry is paramount for the bottom line.

Simple and beautiful. KISS. Better entry, better timing, higher probability. Lesser risk, more money available for other positions or other things.

I guess we'll leave it to the masses to do what they've always done... after all, there has to be someone on the other end of our trades, wasp!

Good trading to all.

 

[firewalker99]

People can’t cope with abstract ideas or concepts, they want trading lessons 101, they want somebody else to do the thinking for them. Those people get exactly what they deserve.

As much as I hate to say, that's entirely true. Sometimes things are just too ingrained for people to even want to consider another possibility.

Oh and fwiw, 1 ES point = 10 DOW.
I rest my case.

 

[barjon]

..............If I said it was 1 minute, 1 hour or 1 day, would it make any difference? An entry is an entry.

Yes, if it took an hour you could probably trade it. If it took 1 min you'd need to be superman, so would your platform and so would your pc.

jon

ps: er, I rest my case too :cheesy:

 

[firewalker99]

BSD.................... go check Dow thread

fw is your man, the boy is well over 70% SR and pts a plenty, weeks on end ...F..ckin amazing trades and all in real time

Coming from someone who abandoned trading not that long ago after he - quote - 'lost it', and was looking to - quote 'get back into his old job', a bit of modesty wouldn't be misplaced, me thinks!

Try not to lose it this time Blade. Good luck. I'm sure those wide stops will really help you to keep in the game this time.

PS: As for "proof", seems like you are the kind of guy who - if someone were to put their nose in dog sh*t - still tell them things smell good.

 

[counter_violent]

I rest my case too.

Now ...what was the question ?

 

[wasp]

I rest my case too.

Now ...what was the question ?

...

 

[wasp]

btw... why are they all attachments and not thumbnails/in post anymore?

 

[Jaydee]

I guess, when all is said and done, we agree to disagree...

Goodnight all...

 

[wasp]

I guess, when all is said and done, we agree to disagree...

Goodnight all...

Nah I have to disagree again... my day has just started with opening of FX markets!

 

[wasp]

...

 

[Bladerunner]

Attack on myself not you fw

Coming from someone who abandoned trading not that long ago after he - quote - 'lost it', and was looking to - quote 'get back into his old job', a bit of modesty wouldn't be misplaced, me thinks!

Try not to lose it this time Blade. Good luck. I'm sure those wide stops will really help you to keep in the game this time.

PS: As for "proof", seems like you are the kind of guy who - if someone were to put their nose in dog sh*t - still tell them things smell good.

fw

well you have the pm and I removed the post when the red mist lifted

Sorry fw

it was an attack on myself not you I think, its not easy to attack yourself, easier to find a scapegoat, sorry it had to be you.

Guess Stops are my jelly spot


some kind person directed me to one of my old posts this morning ~



Brain Box does not like change

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by trendie
nerves back again.
can't explain why. when I get a losing trade, I become reluctant to take the next signal.
after even 2 consec losses and I just freeze.
utterly bizarre.

have changed rules recently for reasons of simplification (fewer indicators), but in principle I still buy lower-TF oversold in higher-TF uptrend, and vice versa. (pullbacks)

consequence of nerves is, have been snatching at smaller profits, but still take full stop-loss, so win average and loss average all shot to pieces.

I think its the grass-is-greener mentality.
have been wondering if I can make more pips for less effort, and second-guessing and checking out other alternative methods.
disaster.

help. what do I do?

Hi Trendie

Experienced pretty much exactly the same, as you consider new ways of doing things you see the upside to the changes but perhaps do not see the downside


1) Week off

2) Return and set your screens up exactly how you had them



IMO the nerves you just described are perfectly normal, trade was going wrong and your view of the market was not your usual one

Get me out of here and make it double quick

Flight or Fight triggered, sod the plan this don"t feel good at all

Smaller tf for entry (under the hour) ? Blessing or a curse

If you are good at the entries it stands to reason you will be good at the exits also, why would anybody in their right mind watch a profitable trade go against them and turn into a loss ? think you have just managed the whole of the trade in the lower tf without a good detailed plan for the modifications you have made to your trading, bit of drift in method.

I find Lower tf entries = multiple attempts = pretty much full on concentration = Burn out =

I have come to the conclusion the little buggers are a curse and nothing at the end of the day is gained = Mr Rolls is correct.



pulled the chart of the instrument you were trading

3 mins was in range for some time after what was at the end of the day a profitable exit / scratch and offered a number of later entries based on your original trade idea, hour lows went proper later in the day


Good luck with it Trendie

Andy

again sorry for an attack on you, no explainatin for it just................

total Brain down...........again !

Andy

ps think Jons post the best on Stops, but the threads dead man

 

[Wolff99]

Trading Style

One more point I quickly wanted to make is contrary to what new_trader recently wrote about proficient traders having tight stops.

All the time the market is giving you more information. Sometimes you need to pay a premium for more reliable information.

The premium is paid by getting in later and using a larger stop.

Both techniques work fine.

I really don't understand the mentality of people being scared of using big stops.

A scalper here does 200 round trips per day paying 0.5 of a tick on the FTSE. This means they are paying a premium of 100 full points risk in the course of a day.

I can do two trades with 50 point stops or 1 trade with a 100 point stop, taking the exact same risk.

There is advantages and disadvantages to both strategies. A scalper has more opportunities to be right but then a scalper has more opportunities to be caught in market blips when bids and offers get pulled or computers get switched off etc which are unlikely to affect me.

I've also found that whilst scalpers have the theoretical advantage - tight stops with huge rewards...I have never met a scalper that captures anywhere near the move I do (note I talk about the move not the monetary gain)

This is something that always baffled me because scalpers should be able to max out as their stops are tight and just try to run things. So I spoke to one of our best scalpers here and he told me that trying to run a trade would kep his concentration on that and not on new opportunities. I can't get my head round this since we all know that it is the big swing that makes the money...but there you go.

Hi Dante,

Noticed your post regarding large stops. I'm definitely of the same opinion.

I'm relatively new to trading although have absorbed myself over the last few months in learning all the various aspect. Got bitten, held back, learnt alot and now about to go live again....a situation probably familiar to many no doubt!

Anyway, I've arrived at looking at Stochastics/MACD, chart patterns, squawk info and Delta action, (Market Delta - Auction Market Theory, price volume etc)

Just wondered what your own strategy was?

Regards

Darren

 

[trader_dante]

Hi Dante,

Noticed your post regarding large stops. I'm definitely of the same opinion.

I'm relatively new to trading although have absorbed myself over the last few months in learning all the various aspect. Got bitten, held back, learnt alot and now about to go live again....a situation probably familiar to many no doubt!

Anyway, I've arrived at looking at Stochastics/MACD, chart patterns, squawk info and Delta action, (Market Delta - Auction Market Theory, price volume etc)

Just wondered what your own strategy was?

Regards

Darren

Darren, don't get me wrong, I don't deliberately use LARGE stops. I base my stops on technical levels and I often wait for confirmation that a level has been REJECTED before I enter so I get in later than traders that will try and enter tight at the level. To compensate, I go for larger rewards.

Today I sold 2 lots of the Euro with a stop of 44 pips (£644 risk). This for me is probably about average.

I closed the first lot for a profit of 113 pips and the second at 141 pips profit (£1793 profit) so I got a R:R of just under 3:1 which again for me is about average.

As to the strategy, I trade price action. No indicators just simple candlestick patterns at strong levels.

 

[Bebe777]

Tight stops do not, firstly, reduce your risk.

Correct POSITION SIZING reduces your risk.

But I will concede with you in part: Risk aside, trading successfully with tight stops, if anything, defines, at some level, a skill in ENTRY.

But "skill" in trading is a very broad term.

The real outcome of a trade is only defined by the EXIT.

Arguing over stop placement is just a chance for all these "elitists" to prove how clever they are:

"I called the move with a stop of just 3 ticks using the DOM and T&S and Market Profile and the Charts...and then I caught a nice 25 point swing, aren't I clever?

Yes, you are much better than me. I got in a little later when I thought the probability was higher...and used a 50 tick stop to make 250 points off that swing."

P&L defines skill. Nothing more. Nothing less.

If we started with an equal amount and I make more money than you using 400 point stops whilst you use 5 point stops, I have traded more successfully. There is no room for argument on this.

Whether I blow up in the future does not come down to it. Current P&L is just a snapshot in time. But when that snapshot is made, current skill is assessed.

I am new to trading. What does "P&L" mean?

 

[trader_dante]

I am new to trading. What does "P&L" mean?

Profit and Loss.

If you start an account with £1,000 and you make £100 on your first trade and lose £70 on your second, your P&L is £30.