Price Patterns.

[jacinto]

......failure in whose eyes jacinto...like i say....patterns never fail....just the ability to read there motive/function in advance.

fair enough

 

[Paul71]

Are re-occurring patterns a form of manipulation? Can they purposely be created by players? Are they born out of repeated and inevitible 'game play'? Is there an equation of PVT that creates a triangle where values can be transposed at any time to suit different magnitudes of triangle?

 

[jacinto]

...btw wasn't trying to be an **** if it came across that way...was merely trying to get people outside of the box.....if visually patterns are conceived as failures and successes ....but in fact we are aware that their function and intent is set way before....ie....the frame off reference is set from the professionals eyes not weak hands.....then with this mind-set you will approach their learning with a different manner.....you will look for clues as to why it was actually a continuation play...and not a reversal etc.

you didnt, not at all. it is not only a fair comment, but also a perfect warning for pattern traders.

j

 

[andycan]

Are re-occurring patterns a form of manipulation? Can they purposely be created by players? Are they born out of repeated and inevitible 'game play'? Is there an equation of PVT that creates a triangle where values can be transposed at any time to suit different magnitudes of triangle?

patterns are in a simplistic way a visual representation of the market personality
its not a manipulation but rather a cause and effect

 

[andycan]

1.yes they are purposeful as weak hands have no comprehension off intent,multi layered intent,motive,manipulation techniques ,order flow and multi layered order flow.they also have no idea who is currently driving the market etc.....ie....which players can take advantage of the current liquidity within the context of the current order flow.wave sizes vary dont they.

2.this occurs because weak hands are purely visual based..(amplified by a lack of willingness to acknowledge that we need to know who we are first so we can know others).. with no real knowledge of self or markets...the whys and hows.... they are the ones like at a poker table who smile from ear to ear when dealt 2 aces.

3.patterns reflect the weak hand supply and demand and the way the professionals used this flow....the way they form......professionals have to achieve motives still within the realms of value.so weak hand participation is needed.


(have just been warned to say no more on the topic..so thats my Sunday morning spirit all dried up)

Nicely put MM
nice to see you around

 

[counter_violent]

(have just been warned to say no more on the topic..so thats my Sunday morning spirit all dried up)

I hope this is'nt a reference to the S club....

why is it when a thread of real value is started that it immediately gets knocked on the head .......and for the newbies and less experienced .....they would'nt see the value anyhow ...but over time and with work ...they might eventually see

I can see why it all goes underground ...i'm as guilty as the next on this point ....break away groups...working closely together.....it's inevitable I suppose

 

[Paul71]

(have just been warned to say no more on the topic..so thats my Sunday morning spirit all dried up)

Cats in bags?

That's a shame, it was getting interesting.

Thanks all the same for the input.

 

[SOCRATES]

Don't let all the whispering about secret knowledge, restricted groups, and shadowy conspiracies dissuade you. There's plenty of good information available in the Price Volume forum regarding your questions. But you'll have to put in the time and effort to read it.

Db

Ha Ha Ha ....funny...if it were not so funny it would be serious....Ha Ha Ha

 

[Paul71]

Don't let all the whispering about secret knowledge, restricted groups, and shadowy conspiracies dissuade you. There's plenty of good information available in the Price Volume forum regarding your questions. But you'll have to put in the time and effort to read it.

Db

Thanks, Db.

Are there any unscrupulous sales persons penning sinnister and underhand posts in the P and V section?

 

[dbphoenix]

Thanks, Db.

Are there any unscrupulous sales persons penning sinister and underhand posts in the P and V section?

Anyone having something to sell is required to display the vendor icon. If you're concerned about whether or not a given vendor is unscrupulous, just ask. Anyone who's unhappy won't be shy about letting you know.

The following forum might also be of interest (I'm assuming that you're new to the site and that your questions are sincere): http://www.trade2win.com/boards/forumdisplay.php?f=35

Db

 

[Paul71]

Anyone having something to sell is required to display the vendor icon. If you're concerned about whether or not a given vendor is unscrupulous, just ask. Anyone who's unhappy won't be shy about letting you know.

Db

Thanks Db. I only ask because it's just not fair on the dreamers and the niaive of this world to think that there is a holy grail.

 

[dbphoenix]

Thanks Db. I only ask because it's just not fair on the dreamers and the niaive of this world to think that there is a holy grail.

True. But as any con will tell you, you can't cheat someone who isn't looking for something for nothing. Greed greases the wheels.

Db

 

[Paul71]

Don't let all the whispering about secret knowledge, restricted groups, and shadowy conspiracies dissuade you. There's plenty of good information available in the Price Volume forum regarding your questions. But you'll have to put in the time and effort to read it.

Db

Can you answer yes or no, Db?

Can Re-occuring price patterns be purposely / intentionally formed?

 

[dbphoenix]

Can you answer yes or no, Db?

Can Re-occuring price patterns be purposely / intentionally formed?

Depends on what you mean by "recurring", "pattern", and "intentionally".

As I said, all your questions have been answered. There's a wealth of information here if you're willing to read it, study it, work with it. But if you're interested primarily in theory, philosophy, and vague and smoky advice, God knows there's plenty of that as well.

Db

 

[zentrader22]

patterns are in a simplistic way a visual representation of the market personality
its not a manipulation but rather a cause and effect

...that's an important topic to be defined!

In my opinion a pattern is also "a representation of the market personality", but not absolutely a "visual" representation.

I currently develop systems which use so-called "invisible" short-term patterns (which can only be interpreted through the trading system algorithms) an this seems to generate far better outputs of my systems, than traditional concepts ... but I'll have to do do still some test work to verify this.

bye,
zentrader

 

[options]

The simple answer is yes.

Price action/patterns are governed by human nature and will repeat time and time again.
They always have and they always will.

Market makers and the big guns know this and they know exactly how to trade accordingly.

 

[Crap Buddist]

Can you answer yes or no, Db?

Can Re-occuring price patterns be purposely / intentionally formed?

This is an interesting one, I mean would the pro's look at charts and see a left head n shoulders etc and think, lets make it look like a complete head and shoulders and cause a fake out? I cant see them bothering with that would they? not to create it, but if they still know the intent is up, then any break down is a result of rookies just selling the break and they pro's would be buyers even if it was a triangle , a flag or , range market, patterns secondary to intent and the pattern form how they do.

I mean if it takes a range breakout to get people to sell then it was that. If its oh looks like a triangle here, but we still be buying, then it was a triiangle etc. I'm open to traders knowing in advance what patterns they will form, but why would they bother when they would be buying if it was a square circle or triangle anyway?

Intentionally exploited as they form, makes sense.

 

[superfly]

Intentionally exploited as they form

Thanks, thats my main trading paradigm/ambition/focus

super

 

[trendie]

mr.marcus,

I take your points (especially about trading "with" the market)

but, there are so many individual strategies, and time-frames, and risk/reward-profiles, its difficult to see who is actually "better" than anyone else.

some people simply have modest 20 pips a day requirements and leave the moment the target is hit, and others trade for as much as they can get.
Some use statistical techniques to formulate plans, such as hans123, some utilise pro-behaviour like the Big-Ben. or NFP. or esoterics, like Gann, and moon-phases.

If they make pips, its a valid strategy.

I have the utmost respect for your posts, as your previous posts show a depth of understanding that is quite incredible, but most of us play the statistics game, to make up for a lack of deeper knowledge.

The question whether the deeper knowledge is even necessary to trade is a moot point.

I dont need an understanding of latent heat capacity of water to make a cup of tea.

EDIT: Oh my god (T2W does not endorse any divine beings, and other dieties are available) I am dragging this off-topic. I shall take the kicking from mr.marcus, and accept it with good grace.

 

[andycan]

...that's an important topic to be defined!

In my opinion a pattern is also "a representation of the market personality", but not absolutely a "visual" representation.

I currently develop systems which use so-called "invisible" short-term patterns (which can only be interpreted through the trading system algorithms) an this seems to generate far better outputs of my systems, than traditional concepts ... but I'll have to do do still some test work to verify this.

bye,
zentrader

depends what point of reference you are using