Price Patterns: Off topic discussion

[dbphoenix]

(have just been warned to say no more on the topic..so thats my Sunday morning spirit all dried up)

Cats in bags?

That's a shame, it was getting interesting.

Thanks all the same for the input.

Don't let all the whispering about secret knowledge, restricted groups, and shadowy conspiracies dissuade you. There's plenty of good information available in the Price Volume forum regarding your questions. But you'll have to put in the time and effort to read it.

Db

 

[dbphoenix]

....oh dear...another one bites the dust...good luck linesniffer.....nice knowing you..

If he's going to give up that easily, it's for the best.

Db

 

[dbphoenix]

....and another thread dies.....jeez why bother....there was enough above for others to discuss....instead of being re directed.

If Jacinto and Andycan want to work with linesniffer, that's up to them. If they have other fish to fry, there are other resources available to linesniffer since you were "warned" to "say no more" and your "Sunday morning spirit" has "dried up".

OTOH, if your "Sunday morning spirit" has suddently refreshed itself, knock yourself out.

Db

 

[barjon]

Well, there seems to be a recognisable and repeatable pattern beginning to appear on this thread

It seems to me that the topic of the thread is very interesting with plenty of potential for constructive discussion. It would be such a pity to see it deteriorate into yet another bout of pie throwing.

I would be grateful if participants could put away their personal differences and concentrate on conducting a civilised and constructive debate on the topic. Thank you.

Good trading

Jon

 

[trendie]

.....
lets have a vote....whod love to see some more live trading on these boards....starting with db and me.it would be very educational for everyone...and as that is the spirit of this board im up for it again....having done it already for weeks at a time....but hey if we can do it and raise some money for charity too...everyones happy...

vote=yes.

I am all for live trading, and posting trades. Although, they tend to be better when a commentary is given as to the reasoning, as it becomes more educational.

However, I think we should be trading against the market itself, rather than each other.
Winning pips is winning pips, an achievement in itself without the comparative contest.

Otherwise we are going to need to first build a wall against which to p1ss.

 

[sandpiper]

Well, there seems to be a recognisable and repeatable pattern beginning to appear on this thread

It seems to me that the topic of the thread is very interesting with plenty of potential for constructive discussion. It would be such a pity to see it deteriorate into yet another bout of pie throwing.

I would be grateful if participants could put away their personal differences and concentrate on conducting a civilised and constructive debate on the topic. Thank you.

Good trading

Jon

Jon,

Well, the topic of the thread is just another topic, like so many others. What makes a thread interesting is when actual professionals (for reasons that still mystify me to be honest) feel inspired or charitable enough to contribute. The instances of true professionals gracing threads with their contributions is so rare these days that I believe to a large extent that the piper should be allowed to 'call the tune' whilst the thread develops.

It is therefore extremely annoying to see genuinely constructive and thoughtful contributions devalued by irrelevant comments and re-directions from those who frankly, should know better.

Frankly, certain parties are clearly incapable of any kind of debate, let alone civilised, when it comes to views that differ from their own somewhat simplistic view of the markets/world. They frequently resort to one liners that serve no purpose other than to illustrate the fact that they have nothing of value to say. Ultimate their intervention always leads to the 'come into my parlour' punchline, as it has done here (and other threads for that matter).

Posts should be recognised for what they truly contribute to the purpose and intent of a thread rather than whether they include rude words, etc, etc. Unfortunately, until such time as contextual, even handed moderation is employed, potentially interesting discussions will always end up with those that have the most to offer exasperated by the way in which, not only the mods but also the mass membership allow themselves to be herded by the vacuous few.

Perhaps on Trade2Win, as in the markets, this is the way it has to work.

 

[SOCRATES]

Don't let all the whispering about secret knowledge, restricted groups, and shadowy conspiracies dissuade you. There's plenty of good information available in the Price Volume forum regarding your questions. But you'll have to put in the time and effort to read it.

Db

Since my initial reply to you does not give you the nudge, I will explain more clearly.

What happens is that there is a handful of us who are not interested in sharing edges.

Edges are too valuable to share with just anybody, so it ia a matter of trust as well, I am sorry to tell you.

Additionally, you are right about your first sentence, and wrong about your second, and misguided about your third.

There are whispers and there are restricted groups and this is true, but you cannot be included in any of it,

There isn't anything in the price volume forum that cannot be found in textbooks. What is not in the textbooks is what everybody wants ( probably including you....:cheesy: ) but I am very sorry to tell you again that you cannot be allowed to have what is not in the textbooks.

What is in the textbooks is enough to suit your general purposes and no further, sorry.

As for reading...well....in the light of what I have explained to you peripherally above....again I must tell you, sorry, it will not do much good.

What wil do a lot of good is what is suggested repeatedly by myself and selected others, but there again, it is what the great majority is either unable or unwilling or both, to do.

 

[sandpiper]

mr.marcus,

I take your points (especially about trading "with" the market)

but, there are so many individual strategies, and time-frames, and risk/reward-profiles, its difficult to see who is actually "better" than anyone else.

some people simply have modest 20 pips a day requirements and leave the moment the target is hit, and others trade for as much as they can get.
Some use statistical techniques to formulate plans, such as hans123, some utilise pro-behaviour like the Big-Ben. or NFP. or esoterics, like Gann, and moon-phases.

If they make pips, its a valid strategy.

I have the utmost respect for your posts, as your previous posts show a depth of understanding that is quite incredible, but most of us play the statistics game, to make up for a lack of deeper knowledge.

The question whether the deeper knowledge is even necessary to trade is a moot point.

I dont need an understanding of latent heat capacity of water to make a cup of tea.

EDIT: Oh my god (T2W does not endorse any divine beings, and other dieties are available) I am dragging this off-topic. I shall take the kicking from mr.marcus, and accept it with good grace.

Trendie,

Interesting points. I believe it's a question of personal standards, expectation and aspiration. Clearly there will always be many more Sunday market traders than there will be Richard Bransons. It's also true that the achievements of Richard Branson do not devalue the success of the many Sunday market traders. However, given the choice of whether to serve an apprenticeship with Mr. Branson or the guy selling fruit and veg, I'm pretty sure who I would choose.

As has been said before, it's a bit like entrusting your brain surgery to a surgeon who has been practising with an iceberg lettuce and a knife and fork.

 

[SOCRATES]

Trendie,

Interesting points. I believe it's a question of personal standards, expectation and aspiration. Clearly there will always be many more Sunday market traders than there will be Richard Bransons. It's also true that the achievements of Richard Branson do not devalue the success of the many Sunday market traders. However, given the choice of whether to serve an apprenticeship with Mr. Branson or the guy selling fruit and veg, I'm pretty sure who I would choose.

As has been said before, it's a bit like entrusting your brain surgery to a surgeon who has been practising with an iceberg lettuce and a knife and fork.

Exactly, precisely...:cheesy:

 

[jacinto]

If Jacinto and Andycan want to work with linesniffer, that's up to them. If they have other fish to fry, there are other resources available to linesniffer since you were "warned" to "say no more" and your "Sunday morning spirit" has "dried up".

OTOH, if your "Sunday morning spirit" has suddently refreshed itself, knock yourself out.

Db

Linesniffer:

Should I be ready to help as DB suggests, I would, but I am not fully developed as a trader so as to pass on what I know in a way that can benefit you.

I think you will find many things on this site that will benefit you, and, as with everything, some others that wont.

good luck
j

 

[dazshaw]

I Dont get it!

I really dont understand what traders and readers want from this business. When I began I read all the books I could. This helped me to understand the definitions of trading, but never helped me in undrstanding what was going on. However, I perststed, I had some small success using a 30 min B/O strategy on the dow, but when the s**t hit the fan I lost a s**t load of my hard earned (and it was hard earned) money. The problem was that I was using a strategy with a small edge and when the edge went I lost. You then have to admit that you know absolutley nothing about the markets, (but alas many do not). I am sure many can relate to my experience.

When I was starting out, if someone had offered to trade live in front of me I would have broken down the door to get a chance to see. The curry eating champion has offered a challenge to all other traders. What a chance to learn! Whats more, the proceeds go to charity! Lets be honest If you can trade day in, day out successfuly you wouldnt mind doing it live now and again would you? If someone challenged me to drive a car I would be up for the challenge because I know I can drive.There will of course be those who say they have nothing to prove etc. But its not really about that is it?

I now know to listen to those who walk the talk, real knowledge, there are a few diamond posts on this thread already, find them; they are here!

Its nice to see Mr M has got some renewed energy, even if it is from the wrong food source

p.s I bet you have many cats in that bag of yours marcus LOL

 

[andycan]

I really dont understand what traders and readers want from this business. When I began I read all the books I could. This helped me to understand the definitions of trading, but never helped me in undrstanding what was going on. However, I perststed, I had some small success using a 30 min B/O strategy on the dow, but when the s**t hit the fan I lost a s**t load of my hard earned (and it was hard earned) money. The problem was that I was using a strategy with a small edge and when the edge went I lost. You then have to admit that you know absolutley nothing about the markets, (but alas many do not). I am sure many can relate to my experience.

When I was starting out, if someone had offered to trade live in front of me I would have broken down the door to get a chance to see. The curry eating champion has offered a challenge to all other traders. What a chance to learn! Whats more, the proceeds go to charity! Lets be honest If you can trade day in, day out successfuly you wouldnt mind doing it live now and again would you? If someone challenged me to drive a car I would be up for the challenge because I know I can drive.There will of course be those who say they have nothing to prove etc. But its not really about that is it?

I now know to listen to those who walk the talk, real knowledge, there are a few diamond posts on this thread already, find them; they are here!

Its nice to see Mr M has got some renewed energy, even if it is from the wrong food source

p.s I bet you have many cats in that bag of yours marcus LOL

dazshaw with respect
what i know is not in books certainly not in any book i have read
i have read books more out of curiosity to see how others see or view markets
if Mr M wants to go live trading time permitting i be happy to join in i think he is a smashing chap and will bring value, but i also suspect he has far more pressing commitments at the moment

 

[PKFFW]

....yes trendie ...we all know the text book answer ...do you think i have built a 8 man team in 3 years spending all day pissing against walls proving myself...there's not enough hours in the day to achieve what i desire for myself and others and beyond....yet it is infuriating to see the constant diversions away from interesting threads to info which is dead end text book regurgitation.......yep ...it annoys me.....specially if ive given out a lot of food for thought on a thread .....so im saying....lets see who actually knows what they proclaim to be talking about.

isn't this the main problem with these boards....only the ones who know..know ..ie top pros traders...can see the truth......if someone presented me with a snooker ball blindfolded could i tell the color....of course not....so this is the problem with forums...the people who have worked hard and deserve respect dont get it...cause people are unaware off the value what is being presented.trading is like a sport....but any other sport you have rankings...helping to gauge people standards ...trading doesn't does it.......but your statement about trading against the market is actually wrong.....you trade with the market...or with the professional intent of the market.but do you not trade against individuals...yep....they make the market....so therefore a is a challenge so bad....nope.isn't this a great chance to actually see who you should be listening intently too ...instead...of those who are just spend all day building virtual empires...false ones at that.wouldn't that be a newbies dream?

Mr Marcus,

If you se the "problem with these boards" as those that deserve repect don't get it, I suggest you go apply to join the elite club if you are not already a member. They do alot of back slapping and congratulating of each other.

I have no idea how you have built an 8 man team. I don't even know if you have indeed built an 8 man team or if you are just claiming to have done so.

I see only one problem with your post. Those who continually claim to be "in the know" on these boards also continually claim they will not share their knowledge. The only knowledge they seem to want to share is that we must all "know ourselves" and that is something they can not teach us and that we must work on ourselves etc etc etc. Now that is all well and good, and I do believe that it is an important part of trading. It is also a very vague statement that seems to suggest some great fount of inner knowledge without actually providing anything of substance. A bit of a catch-22 really. So how am I to truly know who has done the work and deserves respect?

You mention a live trading challenge. Fair enough, but without detailing the knowledge that goes into a trading strategy how am I to know which strategy(regardless of profitability) would be suitable to me? All a trading challenge(without detail of trading strategy) is going to provide is bragging rights to the individual that "wins". Now as important as that seems to be to "those in the know" on these boards, it doesn't really provide any useful information to anyone.

So the first order of business would be to determine if your interst is in the bragging rights or in the helping of others as you claim. If it is the helping of others, then some detailing of that "secret in the know knowledge" would be relevant and those "in the know" would then have to actually share some of that knowledge. Is this what "those in the know" really want? I think they have made it clear it is not.

Now don't get me wrong, I am not asking for those "in the know" to share their knowledge. As nice as it would be to have, how could I trust it? As you have pointed out in other posts, those "in the know" do not have my interests at heart. My cup of tea may be laced with cyanide etc etc. As others "in the know" have pointed out, the markets need a constant resupply of "weak hands" or "dumb money" churning over so those "in the know" can make money. So any knowledge those "in the know" provide is immediately suspect by your very own reasoning. So then I must ask, regardless of how much work they have done and how much respect they deserve, why should I respect that in the first place?

I respectfully suggest the only way anyone will succeed in this business is by reading, learning and practicing everything they can get their hands on. Then they can determine for themselves what is worthy of respect rather than relying on someone who claims to be "in the know" telling the newbie they are worthy of respect.

Cheers,
PKFFW

 

[PKFFW]

Trendie,

Interesting points. I believe it's a question of personal standards, expectation and aspiration. Clearly there will always be many more Sunday market traders than there will be Richard Bransons. It's also true that the achievements of Richard Branson do not devalue the success of the many Sunday market traders. However, given the choice of whether to serve an apprenticeship with Mr. Branson or the guy selling fruit and veg, I'm pretty sure who I would choose.

As has been said before, it's a bit like entrusting your brain surgery to a surgeon who has been practising with an iceberg lettuce and a knife and fork.

sandpiper,

What if Branson has made it clear he will not take on any apprentice? What if he will not write any book detailing his knowledge? What if he has said constantly that his business requires lots of new people to come in and be eaten up and spat out, all their money gone, so that he can continue to make money? Would you even trust his advice if he did offer appenticeships or wrote a book?

Further to that, at least his record and wealth is more or less a matter of public record. Where is any of the verification of wealth, experience or trading success claimed by those on these boards? There really isn't any.

So one can spend their time lapping up any pearls of wisdom dropped here and there by certain individuals who claim to be successful or one can read everthing, practice everything, and disregard the source. Then in the end they can make up their own minds about what will help them be a success. Serve their own apprenticeship so to speak.

Cheers,
PKFFW

 

[dbphoenix]

....i gave out masses of details about how i trade in the summer...masses....i spent months running the chat rooms putting my trading asided to teach others in the past....i teach many people and continue to do so from these boards...indeed today...i have offered to help another 2 from this very thread on skype sessions......so i will continue to help others .... your post is completely based without any accuracy of my dealings...

All that in 52 posts. My goodness

 

[wasp]

....i gave out masses of details about how i trade in the summer...masses....i spent months running the chat rooms putting my trading asided to teach others in the past....i teach many people and continue to do so from these boards...indeed today...i have offered to help another 2 from this very thread on skype sessions......so i will continue to help others .... your post is completely based without any accuracy of my dealings...

After a few extremely informative skype sessions with mr.m I will vouch for his skills and his very generous nature.

 

[dbphoenix]

...here he is on time.....

I've been engaged in more important activities.

 

[sandpiper]

All that in 52 posts. My goodness

Well. I would suggest that Mr. Marcus has indeed provided a great deal more enlightenment in 52 posts than you have managed to in several thousand (tens of thousand here and elsewhere I guess).

In any case, he has provided the best content (by far) that this site has ever seen on the WOT threads. Unfortunately, the selfish, stupid conduct of a small minority of members and the lack of protection for valuable content/providers from the moderators forced the withdrawal of the information.

At this stage, I would suggest that you either put up or shut up, but realistically you are not likely to do either so can I just suggest that you re-direct your tedious little one-liners to a thread where they are appreciated.

Thanks in anticipation.

 

[counter_violent]

After a few extremely informative skype sessions with mr.m I will vouch for his skills and his very generous nature.

Seriously I can believe this 100%...although I hav'nt had the pleasure personally and probably never will.....reason being I can't abide the socco pomposity and attitude problems etc etc .......well if this is disrespect...then it is no more disrespectful than the other way around.....I can live with it

To sum up ....

MM I believe is quality...

Socco I believe is partial quality sometimes but the downside....well ....how much time have we got !

cv

 

[dbphoenix]

Well. I would suggest that Mr. Marcus has indeed provided a great deal more enlightenment in 52 posts than you have managed to in several thousand (tens of thousand here and elsewhere I guess).

In any case, he has provided the best content (by far) that this site has ever seen on the WOT threads. Unfortunately, the selfish, stupid conduct of a small minority of members and the lack of protection for valuable content/providers from the moderators forced the withdrawal of the information.

At this stage, I would suggest that you either put up or shut up, but realistically you are not likely to do either so can I just suggest that you re-direct your tedious little one-liners to a thread where they are appreciated.

Thanks in anticipation.

Sorry, sand, can't judge what isn't there. But I look forward to dozens of informative and helpful posts in the future.

Db