Please help, career Advice needed.

[mattonline]

Well this is my first post, and so far the forum has been looking very informative. But i really do need some help, i'm currently a student in my first year of university in the UK, studying business management. But i'm not enjoying it, and i've always wanted to invest on the stock market, or become a stock broker. So could you answer these questions please.

Are there any positions as a stock broker that accept undergraduate's? as all i've found is firms looking for graduate trainee stock brokers etc, if there are do i stand any chance of getting a position as a broker?

I'm a little confused on the SII.org.uk website, i know i have to take the exam, and i don't mind paying for the books and course myself, but how much roughly am i looking at paying for the books and exam?

If firms mainly accept graduates, do i stand a decent chance of getting hired if i have the necasery qualifications?

I will have more questions, but could you answer these please..

Thanks in advance.

 

[Bagehot]

Well this is my first post, and so far the forum has been looking very informative. But i really do need some help, i'm currently a student in my first year of university in the UK, studying business management. But i'm not enjoying it, and i've always wanted to invest on the stock market, or become a stock broker. So could you answer these questions please.

Are there any positions as a stock broker that accept undergraduate's? as all i've found is firms looking for graduate trainee stock brokers etc, if there are do i stand any chance of getting a position as a broker?

I'm a little confused on the SII.org.uk website, i know i have to take the exam, and i don't mind paying for the books and course myself, but how much roughly am i looking at paying for the books and exam?

If firms mainly accept graduates, do i stand a decent chance of getting hired if i have the necasery qualifications?

I will have more questions, but could you answer these please..

Thanks in advance.

Simple advice. 1. Do not give up studying. Without a degree you will be hugely disadvantaged against candidates you'll come up against time and again in the city. 2. If business studies is not lighting your fire, consider transferring to a crunchier, more numerate subject - these will always be popular with employers over more airy-fairy courses: exceptions are the arts and humanities taught at the blue-chips because something like PPE from Oxford shows that you've been taught how to think. 3. Do not give up your degree. I know that was No.1, but it's so important it's worth repeating. 4. Don't bother with the SII's - focus on your degree, and when you're on a graduate place scheme you'll be sponsored through whichever professional exams are necessary/useful. 5. Enjoy being a student. You'll have plenty of chance to get into the office at 7am and post a 12-hour+ day when you start work in the City...

 

[mattonline]

Thanks for your advice, But all i've wanted to do is become a stock broker and invest, but do you suggest me (if i carry on in uni) to take the SII tests, as i would probs have more help here at uni, and it will be done and out of the way with, i could take my time and study it carefully, instead of having the pressure of completing the course within 6months or how ever long it takes.

 

[fifty2aces]

What do you actually want to do for a living? A lot of people mention the term "stockbroker" as a general reference to people who work in the markets, but it actually has a specific meaning.

It's already been said, but focus on your degree - doing the professional qualifications isn't important until you get the job.

 

[tomorton]

Thanks for your advice, But all i've wanted to do is become a stock broker and invest, but do you suggest me (if i carry on in uni) to take the SII tests, as i would probs have more help here at uni, and it will be done and out of the way with, i could take my time and study it carefully, instead of having the pressure of completing the course within 6months or how ever long it takes.

Get your degree first and asap. It opens many more doors than any specific qualification. It is most people's best investment.

 

[Bagehot]

Thanks for your advice, But all i've wanted to do is become a stock broker and invest, but do you suggest me (if i carry on in uni) to take the SII tests, as i would probs have more help here at uni, and it will be done and out of the way with, i could take my time and study it carefully, instead of having the pressure of completing the course within 6months or how ever long it takes.

If all you've ever wanted to do is become a broker then you'll do whatever you need to do to get there. First, foremost and inarguable is that you must concentrate on getting a good degree. I wouldn't bother with the SII exams at all - they're called professional qualifications for a reason and I don't think they'll give you any real advantage in applying. Instead, if you've got time on your hands think of all the things a recruiter is likely to look for 'below the line' and get involved: first team sports, volunteering, etc. and build your cv that way. As Fifty2aces says - are you sure you know what you want to do? You say you want to become a stock-broker and invest, but stockbrokers don't invest, they broke...we're basically just salespeople who happen to be selling investment ideas rather than double glazing...

 

[mattonline]

What i want to do?

when i use The term 'stock broker' i'm refering to stock analysis, trade executions etc

so i'm looking to learn the trade this way, and on my own as much as possible until i get the job, then would like to invest for myself later on in life.

 

[fifty2aces]

What i want to do?

when i use The term 'stock broker' i'm refering to stock analysis, trade executions etc

so i'm looking to learn the trade this way, and on my own as much as possible until i get the job, then would like to invest for myself later on in life.

Cool, in that case you don't want to be a stockbroker. Stockbrokers are pretty much salesmen. Sounds like you either want to do equity research, investment management, or trading.

Check out this site: Finance Jobs: Investment Banking Jobs, IT Jobs, Accounting Jobs & Bank Recruitment

And this book: Amazon.co.uk: All You Need to Know About the City (All You Need to Know Guides): Amazon.co.uk:: Christopher Stoakes

to get a run down of what job opportunities are available. Once you know exactly what you hope to do, then you can focus on getting there.

 

[mattonline]

Thanks i'll have a little read of the book you recomended, i've also purchased the intelligent investor which i'll have a read through

 

[Atilla]

Thanks i'll have a little read of the book you recomended, i've also purchased the intelligent investor which i'll have a read through

WHAT EVER YOU DO - MAKE SURE YOU FINISH YOUR COURSE.

SOUNDS LIKE YOU LACK DISCIPLINE AND CAN'T BE ARSED TO GET ON AND DO YOUR WORK TO COMPLETE YOUR COURSE.

EXCELLENT ADVICE BELOW MAKE SURE YOU HEED IT!!!!


Best of luck. I sincerely would like you to succeed.

 

[mattonline]

GammaJammer: That was a great post for me to read, and i absolutely don't mind doing a very low paid internship, as i just want to get into the markets and gain experience. I really don't like the learning style i'm under at university, where the lecture just teaches us business, i do prefer a more practical approach to learning, as in lectures i do switch off and find them very boring, apart from the practical subjects, accounting and maths. I've learned most of my subjects leading up to the exam from the text books, so i do believe i'd be more suited as a role in some sort of apprentice/internship role.

WHAT EVER YOU DO - MAKE SURE YOU FINISH YOUR COURSE.

SOUNDS LIKE YOU LACK DISCIPLINE AND CAN'T BE ARSED TO GET ON AND DO YOUR WORK TO COMPLETE YOUR COURSE.

EXCELLENT ADVICE BELOW MAKE SURE YOU HEED IT!!!!


Best of luck. I sincerely would like you to succeed.

It's not that i can't be arsed to finish my course its just that i'm not enjoying it, and don't feel like i'm learning all that much from my lecturers. Why would i want to carry on with university if i'm not enjoying it?

And thanks for everyones advice so far

 

[Bagehot]

It's not that i can't be arsed to finish my course its just that i'm not enjoying it, and don't feel like i'm learning all that much from my lecturers. Why would i want to carry on with university if i'm not enjoying it?

Because it will get you a qualification that will get you where you want to be in the long-run?

If you don't like Business Studies is it too late to transfer to a course you will find more interesting? Gamma's point on internships which you may have missed is that they are always offered to undergraduates during summer holidays, etc. If you think your professional life is always going to be about 'enjoyment' and the minute you stop enjoying something you can just jack it in, you're likely to be sorely disappointed...

 

[mattonline]

Because it will get you a qualification that will get you where you want to be in the long-run?

If you don't like Business Studies is it too late to transfer to a course you will find more interesting? Gamma's point on internships which you may have missed is that they are always offered to undergraduates during summer holidays, etc. If you think your professional life is always going to be about 'enjoyment' and the minute you stop enjoying something you can just jack it in, you're likely to be sorely disappointed...

Its not that i don't like business, i love it, its just i don't think university is for me, and i think i can be more productive in my education/experience with a internship type job, i've had a quick look into internships in the last 30mins or so, and contacted the careers advice at the university to get more feedback.

I don't think my professional life will be all enjoyment like you said, and i never give up on things (apart from thinking about packing in uni) but i stuck out my Alevels when i wanted to give them up, i don't want you to think i pack everything in when i don't enjoy it, because i don't i always stick things through to the end.

 

[Bagehot]

Its not that i don't like business, i love it, its just i don't think university is for me, and i think i can be more productive in my education/experience with a internship type job, i've had a quick look into internships in the last 30mins or so, and contacted the careers advice at the university to get more feedback.

I don't think my professional life will be all enjoyment like you said, and i never give up on things (apart from thinking about packing in uni) but i stuck out my Alevels when i wanted to give them up, i don't want you to think i pack everything in when i don't enjoy it, because i don't i always stick things through to the end.

okay - whatever you think best. But two comments from someone who's been and done what you want to do... 1. There is one non-graduate in our department. She makes the tea, answers the phones, and books travel. She's our secretary. 2. I can take my pick when recruiting, of the best candidates from the best business schools and universities across Europe. I could fill our vacancies several times over with applicants just from INSEAD here in Paris. Why would I even consider someone who hadn't demonstrated through a degree their intellectual capacity? And when the UK has a policy to push more than 50% of school leavers through uni, my challenge is seperating the wheat from the chaff from the university applicants: the last thing I'm going to do is bother looking at those who have not gone or who have dropped out. If they're not even in the top-50%, why should I?

Good luck, whatever you do - but especially if you quit university: you'll need it.

 

[fifty2aces]

Agreeing with Bagehot - even if you don't learn anything useful from university, you pretty much need to get a degree just because there are so many graduates around that there's no reason to bother looking at non-graduates, unless they are exceptional, and can prove it without an interview.

 

[mattonline]

hmm good advice, gets me thinking, but i'm not from 'the best uni' (swansea) which is ranked something like 48th in the UK for business, so what kind of uni's would you be looking at, for people to hire?

 

[Bagehot]

hmm good advice, gets me thinking, but i'm not from 'the best uni' (swansea) which is ranked something like 48th in the UK for business, so what kind of uni's would you be looking at, for people to hire?

Okay - I work for an IB so this isn't completely representative as I think we're in higher demand than the buy-side which is also a valid destination, or simple brokerage businesses. And I don't know how the prop-shop side of things works at all if you're interested in trading. But last year, my place got something like 300 applications for every slot on our graduate scheme. Not all our new intake are new graduates, but all are graduates (ie some are a bit older, having been in business and got MBAs, etc). Being a European bank, we take entrants from across Europe (and a few US, although these have often studied in Europe) - no university would be precluded necessarily (the advantage with HR in Paris, is they don't necessarily know that CrapTown University was an ex-Poly!) but they will keep a look out for certain names: in the UK Oxford, Cambridge, LBS, then more widely INSEAD, HEC, IMD among the business schools. Obviously the big French and German universities. So, let's say you got a first or 2:1 from Swansea and also had a strong cv in other areas like playing a team sport at county level, had spent summers volunteering for charity in Africa, that kind of thing, you might be in with a shout. Personally, I would want to see a stronger first degree than Business Studies, which is a bit 'soft' unless it's from a very good school, but you are where you are, and it's infinitely better than no degree at all. You don't need a degree to be a success. Lots of entrepreneurs don't have them. But, your aspirations are different: you don't want to be an entrepreneur, you want to be employed, and to do that you need to play the game the right way.

 

[mattonline]

Well i'm in my first year, so its general business education, studying marketing, ict, management, economics, maths etc, but next year i would like to just study Accounting and finance, maybe with a side module in maths which i think may help.

Well at the moment my aspirations are to become a stock broker and gain valuable experience on the markets, with some investments my self on the side, then later on set up my own investment firm, with some capital and experience behind me.

 

[Bagehot]

Well i'm in my first year, so its general business education, studying marketing, ict, management, economics, maths etc, but next year i would like to just study Accounting and finance, maybe with a side module in maths which i think may help.

Well at the moment my aspirations are to become a stock broker and gain valuable experience on the markets, with some investments my self on the side, then later on set up my own investment firm, with some capital and experience behind me.

Maths would definitely help to market yourself. Also make sure you do something better in the holidays than working behind a bar or stacking shelves, because with thousands of applications you need something that will stand out to a jaded HR person sifting through them all.

I was in a US IB in London a few weeks back and they had posters up 'congratulating' their new graduate intake on getting in (yeah, I know, very American). Under the banner headline were a list of names and each had a one-line entry under another column for 'achievements' - they were pretty bloody amazing to be honest, in fact it was almost a parody: pretty much every base was covered from competing at the Olympics to an intern as private secretary to the president of the EU, and most points in between. I didn't see any claiming to have negotiated peace in Afghanistan, or discovered a cure for cancer, but they wouldn't have stood out particularly if they had :cheesy:

Your aspirations are perfectly reasonable - but here's a challenge: google or similar for top investment managers (either employed or running their own money), and then try and dig out some bios on them - I bet you won't find a single one who doesn't have at least one degree.

I've banged on about this, and will stop now, (not least as I've some work to do), but I really don't want to see anyone throwing away options on their future by giving up university...

 

[mattonline]

Thanks your posts have been great, i've got a job lined up in an accountancy firm if i want it in the summer, which i'll probely take. I will google for them investment managers, and to make me stand out even more, and to show my determination i think i might complete a SII qualification in uni, can only enhance my CV