Pants Down

[counter_violent]

In all areas of business and life there are those who wish to have your " pants down " and they come in many guises.
Trading and everything associated with it must be right up there amongst the worst of the worst in terms of scam merchants, snake oil salesmen, vendors, institutions, brokers, liars, cheats, the list is endless.
Everyone wants a cut of the action and they have no scruples when it comes to parting you from your hard earned.
Recently I had a PM from a well respected member who used the term "trading is a dirty business" and this got me thinking about the human condition and why we all do what we do.
Everyone has an agenda !
O K so what is the point of me telling you this. Well if it makes you stop and think twice before acting, then it has served it's purpose.
My pants are intact before anyone asks, the university of life has taught me to be aware at all times.

C V

 

[andycan]

you think trading has issues
you should look into the motor industry

 

[Pippppin]

Paddy

 

[SOCRATES]

In all areas of business and life there are those who wish to have your " pants down " and they come in many guises.
Trading and everything associated with it must be right up there amongst the worst of the worst in terms of scam merchants, snake oil salesmen, vendors, institutions, brokers, liars, cheats, the list is endless.
Everyone wants a cut of the action and they have no scruples when it comes to parting you from your hard earned.
Recently I had a PM from a well respected member who used the term "trading is a dirty business" and this got me thinking about the human condition and why we all do what we do.
Everyone has an agenda !
O K so what is the point of me telling you this. Well if it makes you stop and think twice before acting, then it has served it's purpose.
My pants are intact before anyone asks, the university of life has taught me to be aware at all times.

C V

I do not agree with either you or your PM from a highly respected member.

Trading is not a dirty business at all. In fact it is a very clean business.

Iti is the only business I know where you are guaranteed of being paid for what you sell and getting what you pay for immediately, no questions asked.

There are no customers, no merchandise, no premises, no staff, and no fixed timetables, and no nuisances like goods returned, or lost or wrong deliveries or delays or any of that.

But...

Instead of the world of business where all sorts of excuses are offered for people not fullfilling their obligations and not keeping deadlines and honouring agreements, the world of trading is a yes no environment in which there are no excuses to wriggle out of a deal if it goes wrong.

This world of yes or no is one people are not used to.

When they are confronted by a world in which they have sole responsibility for what it is they do out of choice and furthermore there are no possibilities to undo blunders they do not like it.

They do not like it at all.

And that is it.

It serves to sort out who is suitable for it and who is not.

 

[andycan]

I Agree Socrates trading in its purest form is as you say i believe counter_violent refers to the shady guru's selling their courses and news letters the bucket shops and so forth
come to think of it the only ones that would get fooled are the newbies :idea:

 

[Splitlink]

In all areas of business and life there are those who wish to have your " pants down " and they come in many guises.
Trading and everything associated with it must be right up there amongst the worst of the worst in terms of scam merchants, snake oil salesmen, vendors, institutions, brokers, liars, cheats, the list is endless.
Everyone wants a cut of the action and they have no scruples when it comes to parting you from your hard earned.
Recently I had a PM from a well respected member who used the term "trading is a dirty business" and this got me thinking about the human condition and why we all do what we do.
Everyone has an agenda !
O K so what is the point of me telling you this. Well if it makes you stop and think twice before acting, then it has served it's purpose.
My pants are intact before anyone asks, the university of life has taught me to be aware at all times.

C V

It is no worse than any other industry where a fool and his money are soon parted. One can read threads on this site of scams that make my mind boggle at the silliness of those who pay thousands of pounds into a Hong Kong bank, just because an unknown voice on the telephone has persuaded them that such and such a company is going to make a killing.

But similar people, with more money that sense will, also, buy a piece of swamp land in Florida, a clapped out Mercedes, valuable stamps that seem to be worthless on the resale, property built in Spain that has no building permission. We can go on and on and most of us know someone who has been done.

This thread and all similar ones that deal with shady transactions have a use which is, hopefully, that a lot of people will read them and learn before the fateful decision that parts them from their money is made.

Take care

Split

 

[SOCRATES]

I Agree Socrates trading in its purest form is as you say i believe counter_violent refers to the shady guru's selling their courses and news letters the bucket shops and so forth
come to think of it the only ones that would get fooled are the newbies :idea:

The newbies are not altogether vulnerable. There are many newbies who are highly intelligent and are able to hold down serious jobs and some have professions, and so on.

The problem is that newbies tend to adopt a frame of reference which is an incorrect one for this business.

They think that their previous life experience qualifies them for this arena.

They thnk they can come into the orchard and pick the choicest plums easily.

They do not realise the plums can be picked and are there for the picking but not with the frame of reference they bring.

So they try to take shortcuts here and there, but still clinging to the notions that they bring.

Of course, they enter a scenario which first of all is not constructed for everyone to succeed, and when they encounter an unforgiving arena that does not and is not constructed to take prisoners then they are made to realise it is not that easy.

I do not blame any vendor for what they vend. I blame people for being stupid in their attitudes to persuading themselves all this can be mastered by anyone, with the wrong attitude, with the wrong approach, with the wrong perspective, with the wrong posture, with the wrong character, in a very short period of time.

 

[hungvir]

I have to be honest and say that my pants were actually down at one point But I pulled it up again. Though not quicly enough

There're always con men in every industry. Trading is not an exception.

Good trading and keep your eyes open

Hung

 

[andycan]

if anyone is going to get screwed it would most likely be the newbies not because they dont have the intellect but as you rightly say it a whole new arena
im kind of impartial to the whole idea
on one hand some people smart or not just need to be protected
on the other hand you need to fall a few times pick yourself up hopefully be a little wiser and and a little stronger, i personally favour the latter
but whom am i to say which is right
i can only go by personal experiences and from what i have heard from others and i just dont fall for all the hype, advertising mechanical systems, software, promises of wealth and all the other BS that is out there

 

[Bez]

What I've encountered over the years, what Socrates seems to elude to, is the higher the newbies academic or professional background the more their pants come down.

Socrates explains the points far more eloquently than I could, but it still begs that basic fundamental question.... Are traders born or made ?

There's no point in blaming a vender when the fundamental natural trading attributes may be lacking in someones individual make up....:?:

 

[andycan]

Are traders born or made ?

Bez

its simply a matter in believing in ones self, i was not born to trade or made
I chose to be a trader !!
the mind is far more powerful than enviroment or even assumed genetics

 

[damianoakley]

Hi All,

In this thread, I have to agree with the Socrates post.

Trading is a business where you can buy product (ie - stock) instantly and then get paid for that product the instant you decide to sell it. Compare this to the property market where houses take 3 months for the deeds and money to change hands, and your seller can back out of the deal at any time they want to.

It was this simplicity of the markets that attracted me to trading in the first place. I used to work in an industry where backstabbing from colleagues, bad debt, and hassle from customers was the everyday norm.

Now with trading, I work with a simple entity (ie - the stockmarket) that does what I ask it (ie - buys or sells) when I ask it.


Thanks

Damian

 

[Charlton]

Self-responsibility

It was this simplicity of the markets that attracted me to trading in the first place. I used to work in an industry where backstabbing from colleagues, bad debt, and hassle from customers was the everyday norm.

I also agree with Socrates post and the point that you make Damian, is conversely, the reason why new traders can stumble.

As Socrates pointed out:

They do not realise the plums can be picked and are there for the picking but not with the frame of reference they bring.

So they try to take shortcuts here and there, but still clinging to the notions that they bring.

The "apparent" simplicity of the market masks the pitfalls and the work required to trade it successfully. It creates the atmosphere in which quick wins are sought and snake-oil merchants can thrive.

On the other hand, as you rightly point out, it is a place where you can make money without having to satisfy or dissatisfy any customer, boss or colleague. It is only you and the market and a question of accepting self-responsibility.

Charlton

 

[damianoakley]

Hi Charlton,

Absolutely spot on.

It is the apparent simplicity of the market that attracts people to it, but the difficulty in finding a profitable strategy that can cost those same people fortunes.

I'm sure many of us have been through it !


Thanks

Damian

 

[Splitlink]

Hi All,

Trading is a business where you can buy product (ie - stock) instantly and then get paid for that product the instant you decide to sell it.

Really? All the time? There are plenty on this site who would disagree with that statement. You have to pick a trustworthy broker. I might add that,even today, there are investors who do not trust nominal accounts. I use one, but my broker is Nat West- you have to trust someone What I have just said is the crux of the whole problem. Untrustworthy operators have to be weeded out in an industry that is built on trust.

I was delighted that the chairman of Enron got 24 years last week in the US. If he had been British and tried in the UK, would he have got the same? I suspect not.

Split

 

[snowball9]

Good posts guys. I have to agree that in this day and age there are many rip off merchants who target the newbies and the vunrable trusting public.

Should we make it our duty ie the more mature traders to warn these vunrable folks of the snakeoil merchants and expose them for what they are. Can we be sued by these merchants for exposing their hidden & crafty agenda.

One other thing if i may:- Would you guys reccommend this forum to a friend?

S9

 

[Splitlink]

Should we make it our duty ie the more mature traders to warn these vunrable folks of the snakeoil merchants and expose them for what they are. Can we be sued by these merchants for exposing their hidden & crafty agenda.

One other thing if i may:- Would you guys reccommend this forum to a friend?

S9

That's a bit patronising, because I think that we can all be taken for suckers at one time or another. Selecting your broker is as important as selecting your stocks and the cheapest isn't, always, the best. I think that if T2W was to have a set of do's and don't's for investors to read before signing on newbies, that would help. I don't think that sharp practices are ever going to be wiped out and it is useless to lose sleep over some poor guy who has lost a packet to some persuasive talker on the telephone. But, neither, should we condone sharp practice, either, and, if he does get caught, let's pray that we have a justice system that will give him 20 years.

Why did you make that last question? Of course, I would recommend it, especially as I post on it!

Split

 

[snowball9]

That's a bit patronising, because I think that we can all be taken for suckers at one time or another. Selecting your broker is as important as selecting your stocks and the cheapest isn't, always, the best. I think that if T2W was to have a set of do's and don't's for investors to read before signing on newbies, that would help. I don't think that sharp practices are ever going to be wiped out and it is useless to lose sleep over some poor guy who has lost a packet to some persuasive talker on the telephone. But, neither, should we condone sharp practice, either, and, if he does get caught, let's pray that we have a justice system that will give him 20 years.

Why did you make that last question? Of course, I would recommend it, especially as I post on it!

Split

Split,

Thanks for your reply.

Re: last comment on reccomendation: I noticed that on this forum the people that are not affraid to speak the truth and expose the rogues and also not affraid of the mods end up getting banned. I remember reading a thread on here somewhere that this was the case.

Cant find the thread when your looking for it. Perhaps someone knows where it is? or has also read it.

Do you happen to know what forum those guys that got banned go to? also the good traders/posters that left this forum on their own choice.

s9

 

[Pippppin]

the "with profits" insurance investment industry is much worse

they take your capital. If they make good returns on it they give you a tiny return on your investment. If they do not make good returns on it, they steal your capital

It is theft

 

[wasp]

Do you happen to know what forum those guys that got banned go to? also the good traders/posters that left this forum on their own choice.

s9

Maybe they left becuase of people with mulitple nicks causing arguments instead of discussing trading related topics