Oil At $138.80, I Sold At $135.67---- Should I Hold Or Cut Loss Now????!!

Um thankyou for your reply, and i am going to try to understand the logic behind what you are saying as you seem very polite and friendly...

The thing that i dont understand is if you dont actually try and workout which direction you think markets heading that minute/hour/day/week... or however long timescale you trade,
You just get into 'a trade', if it goes well thats great, if it doesnt you just get out and hope for better luck nextime...

How is that actually trading not just pre gambling and chance?? :confused:

I'm not saying don't have an opinion on what the market is going to do, just that if you rely solely on your opinion of where price is going then it is your opinon against everyone elses and that is little better than gambling and chance, especially when you consider that most of the other market participants are more experienced and knowledgable than yourself.

Like I said before, you have to think in terms of Risk/Reward and the probability of your trading winning vs losing.

For example, you think oil is going up.... Right now you would buy it and hope for the best, take your pofit when you feel like you've got enough money from it and take your loss when you can't afford to lose any more.

I'm saying that if you think it is going up you should also think about where you think it is going to go up to, and this should be your target where you will take your profit. You also need to think about where it has to drop below for you to think that you were wrong (And yes, even the best traders are wrong an awfull lot) and make sure that you take your loss at this point. Now, try to think about what chance you think the trade has of reaching your profit target and what chance of reaching your stop.

If for example your trade has a 50/50 chance of reaching your target or your stop, but your target is bigger than your stop then over the long term you will make money. This particular trade may go wrong and lose you money, but if you continue to trade like this OVER THE LONG TERM YOU WILL MAKE MONEY..... While if your trade has a 90% chance of being a winner but your stop is 12 times as big as you profit target then you may well make money on the trade but OVER THE LONG TERM YOU WILL LOSE MONEY.

Understanding this is the easy part though, the skill is in evaluating the targets, entries, stops and probabilities and ending up a winner.
 
Im actually trading brent crude not nymex, so its a slightly lower price.

But i feel very happy in my decison though now, if i didnt i would have just got out of it and taken the loss..


Oils gone up a massive massive jump line..,
and so now reality will hit and its going to pullback.


Look at the chart for anything and it shows that is just what happens.


Your views here contradict your subject headline "Oil At $138.80, I Sold At $135.67---- Should I Hold Or Cut Loss Now????!! "

Obviously you should hold. I'd say 50/50 given that

1. Israeli minister states Iran nuclear facility (built over oil fields) is a target
2. DOW will possibly have a black Monday when it opens.


Outcomes:

1. Oil Up - DOW Up (you lose)
2. Oil Up - DOW Down (you may remain neutral)
3. Oil Down - DOW Up (you may remain neutral)
4. Oil Down - DOW Down (you win)

Either way your total disregard to Risk/Reward and Money Management rules means your chance of making anything is about as remote as life on Mars. If it isn't today it's tomorrow.

However, you are tough nut and you will not learnt until you experience it for yourself. I know you. Like you I thought I knew it all and after 4 years and some tough lessons I'm still learning.

Good luck but if anything luck will be your down fall. (y)
 
Hi. Oil will drop then go up again. Thats why people are trading it. Its just that there is so much uncertainty with Oil that anything could happen. Watch what you all are doing. Only make very small trades. Buy and sell the stuff quickly.
 
Hi. Oil will drop then go up again. Thats why people are trading it. Its just that there is so much uncertainty with Oil that anything could happen. Watch what you all are doing. Only make very small trades. Buy and sell the stuff quickly.

Do you have a crystal ball, to be able to make a prediction like this, especially now that there's, also, a strike threat by oil workers in Nigeria?

I have to disagree with your advice "only make small trades. buy and sell the stuff quickly". He is making small trades but, small trades have a nasty habit of becoming big trades if the price moves significantly against you and you hang on hoping for a turn around.
 
Thats why normally i do my giant stoplosses and hege myself too.. :cheesy::cheesy:

The thing that everyone else was putting down in other post, but in reality, if you did it now, you would be safe...

If i had a big acount with a few £1000 i would then be able to sell down teh oil at about where i did sell it, but with a stoploss at around $180!!

Sounds ridiculous you all say, and yes that is why its safe because the oil isnt going to go up $40 more without going by atleast $5 1st.

So then i could just sit back and relax, knowing that i have a few months now for the oil to just pullback atleast $5 and id make profit.


And the only way i would make a loss is if oil never pulled back atleast $5 ithin those few months.
(After a historical record of $18 straight up, it wouldnt even be allowed to go back $5).



You all seem to think im some sort of wally brain, and that my style of trading is complete rubbsih that doesnt work...
:LOL:

But i do understand all about risk to reward ratio, and even though you probably cant see it i am actually probably applying it more in my style than you are in yours.


* Your are using s.l of 50pips maybe, very easy for any market to go 50, so you will loe 50quid and need to make back 50 just to break even...:!:

*I use 10000 pip stoploss though, so its virtually impossible for any market to go that far against you, and then not be able to recovered to its mid average trading value range within 4 months.
So i will lose nothing, and wont be risking losing cash...

Will either just not make or lose anything, or will make cash.
 
Im honestly not trying to sound arrogant...

But i am seriously willing to bet that at most of the big oil trading firms the big traders will billion pound accounts almost all of them will have all done exactly what i do in my style, and have sold down at around 136/138 at probably a few million a pip or however much the big boys trade, and have put a stoploss in above some ridiculously high number such as $180...

Because they then kno that they will be making millions in profit because there is no way on earth taht the oil would go up to 180 without atleast pulling back a few dollars!!
 
ANd you can say it sound stupid to '''risk''' ,which is the word you will use, to ''risk'' oil going 4000 pips against you, just to make 600pips...

But where is the risk in getting runover when your standing infront of a parked car?? LOL


I would say its far more risky and stupid to try trding oil with just 50-70pips stoploss, becaus eall your going to do is get caught out by noise lines!! LOL


And so after the amount of times you will lose all that cash, it will be a struggle for you to even break even at the end of the week, let alone make enough profit to live off!



But you all claim that your styles of trading are working for you, and that your all making 1000s to millions of pounds per year with it.. HAHA

SO im pleased for you all if thats what you claim.
But my style is workinjust as well for me, and ive basically traded live on here and so proved ith is working and i am making money that im living off.
 
Thats why normally i do my giant stoplosses and hege myself too.. :cheesy::cheesy:

The thing that everyone else was putting down in other post, but in reality, if you did it now, you would be safe...

If i had a big acount with a few £1000 i would then be able to sell down teh oil at about where i did sell it, but with a stoploss at around $180!! Stop making excuses.

Sounds ridiculous you all say, and yes that is why its safe because the oil isnt going to go up $40 more without going by atleast $5 1st. What does it matter whether it goes up $40 or not. You don't have the liquidity to see it through. Focus on matter in hand not the clouds above.

So then i could just sit back and relax, knowing that i have a few months now for the oil to just pullback atleast $5 and id make profit. Sit back in relax for a few months. Highly unlikely. Do you really believe you would do this? Really? Don't BS your self! Height of self denial!


And the only way i would make a loss is if oil never pulled back atleast $5 ithin those few months.
(After a historical record of $18 straight up, it wouldnt even be allowed to go back $5).
You for real. Think about the one way you can make a win and the 99 ways you can make a loss will sort them selves out.


You all seem to think im some sort of wally brain, and that my style of trading is complete rubbsih that doesnt work...
:LOL: Your style of trading is what? Proof of pudding is in the money you make.

But i do understand all about risk to reward ratio, and even though you probably cant see it i am actually probably applying it more in my style than you are in yours. You really are showing your immaturity. What is your risk reward ratio? What is your SL and target? How do you judge your style is better managed than anybody elses here? You are saying this and that with no bearing or reference.


* Your are using s.l of 50pips maybe, very easy for any market to go 50, so you will loe 50quid and need to make back 50 just to break even...:!:Who are you refereing to. "You and maybe and very easy blimey you know it all.

*I use 10000 pip stoploss though, so its virtually impossible for any market to go that far against you, and then not be able to recovered to its mid average trading value range within 4 months.
So i will lose nothing, and wont be risking losing cash... You have to teach me that one. Risk no cash and lose nothing??? Er do we get to still make money?

Will either just not make or lose anything, or will make cash.

I'm sorry Spanish but you are so wrong and so big headed your arrogance is dangerous to your finances. Believe me, people genuinely want to help you here and take money off the market but you are deafened by your ego.

If you ever do make money I would take a bet you would only lose a greater amount due to your lack of money management and sheer greed. I hope you don't risk money you don't have...

Take care and beware...
 
I'm sorry Spanish but you are so wrong and so big headed your arrogance is dangerous to your finances. Believe me, people genuinely want to help you here and take money off the market but you are deafened by your ego.

If you ever do make money I would take a bet you would only lose a greater amount due to your lack of money management and sheer greed. I hope you don't risk money you don't have...

Take care and beware...

Hi Atilla,

I've thought, for long time, that this character is leading everyone on. He's unbelievable, otherwise.

Split
 
Now there is a platform that offers super mini oil contract.
Value of 1 point is only US$100, very affordable to a normal employee.
With this small contract size, I can afford to place a $5 stop after I had enter my oil trade.
 
Im honestly not trying to sound arrogant...

But i am seriously willing to bet that at most of the big oil trading firms the big traders will billion pound accounts almost all of them will have all done exactly what i do in my style, and have sold down at around 136/138 at probably a few million a pip or however much the big boys trade, and have put a stoploss in above some ridiculously high number such as $180...

I am willing to bet the exact opposite; coming to the end of Fridays session, the speculators will have been doing two things; The ones with testicles the size of bowling balls will have been closing out their positions so they are flat over the weekend. The other traders, the brave ones, will have bought the new highs. I doubt that either will be net short.

And as for the million $$ per pip... do you know what a future is?

Firstly, Spanish, you do not know anything near enough about the Oil markets to be trading it. Do you Understand Contango? Crack Spreads? Inventories? Output? Distressed Cargo? Do you know what the Geo-Political factors driving oil prices are? like War?? Cost of Carry? Do you know who Platts are? Basis risk? What is the difference bewtween WTI and Brent?

I have no hesitation in suggesting that you don't. In fact, you say things like

Wont Opec have to slash prices again as people will just refuse to pay so much??

Which goes to show how little you understand about the oil market. A lack of understanding that extends to the most basic of economic principles and their application:

(re: a short oil position):

But am going to hold the oil over weekend and hope that there will be another interest rate cut again, even though its unlikely.

If you cannot appreciate the inconsistencies of your statements, then you really do have an intimate relationship with "the wrong end of the stick" (probably something Freudian in that, you know). Repeatedly you have challenged others to explain "using numbers and logic" why a particular set of statements or conditions are not as you see them; try not to be insulted Spanish , but someone really has to tell you that you are not bright enough to understand what you are doing or why you are wrong. It has infact been explained to you a hundred times, you just can't grasp the concepts.

[Look mate, I know that's a bit harsh, but sometimes you just have to say it as you see it. The fact of the matter is that I wouldn't be trying to steer you in the right direction if I thought you were a w@nker; on the contrary, you are quite endearing, and I at least am genuinly trying to help you out. It's just that sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind, and this is one of those times: Spanish, mate, you aren't smart enough to trade.]

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Trading is a stressful business. Nobody can do it forever, we just hope that we can do it for as long as we want and need to. Surving as a trader is much more a marathon than a sprint, and it makes sense to take a break every now and again, relax, and drink Rum Punch on a beach, or spend time with your family, whatever. It just isn't possible to continuously trade without a "time out" every now and again. To find out if it's time to take a break, ask yourself a few questions (If you get 5 or more, it's time to book some holiday):

1. Do you lose time from work due to trading?

2. Is trading making your home life unhappy?

3. Is trading affecting your reputation?

4. Have you ever felt remorse after trading?

5. Do you ever trade to get money with which to pay debts or to otherwise solve financial difficulties?

6. Does trading cause a decrease in your ambition or efficiency?

7. After a losing trade, do you feel you must return as soon as possible and win back your losses.

8. After a winning trade do you have a strong urge to return and win more?

9. Do you often trade until your last pound is gone?

10. Do you ever borrow to finance your trading?

11. Have you ever sold anything to finance trading?

12. Are you reluctant to use trading money for normal expenditures?

13. Does trading make you careless of the welfare of your family?

14. Do you trade longer than you planned?

15. Do you ever trade to escape worry or trouble?

16. Have you ever committed, or considered committing, an illegal act to finance trading?

17. Does trading cause you to have difficulty in sleeping?

18. Do arguments, disappointments, or frustrations create an urge within you to trade?

19. Do you have an urge to celebrate any good fortune by a few hours trading?

20. Have you ever considered self-destruction as a result of your trading?

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

OK, OK, I wasn't entirely accurate. The above list was copied and pasted from the Gamblers Anonymous website. I have replaced the word "Gambling" with "Trading". The site suggests that compusive gamblers will answer 7+ of the above "yes" (OK, so I said 5, my bad). This isn't really the point though, is it.

Spanish, it does appear to me that you are gambling much more than trading, and you don't look like stopping. Nothing wrong with gambling, either at the races, playing poker with your mates, or having a little flutter on the Dow. Thing is though, there comes a point where you've got to stop. Maybe this is one of the reasons trading is a little different to gambling - as a trader, you don't get to say "start trading" or "stop trading" - you just take the good trades as they come along, else do nothing. In order to see where the good trades are, you have to understand your market. It's not exhilirating when your in profit, it's exactly what you expected, because you understand your market. To gamble on the dogs, you have to turn up and pick a trap number. Your trading seems much more the latter than the former, which is why I posted those questions.

Gamblers Anonymous (UK) Are You A Compulsive Gambler ?

Now before you start getting aggressive, I'm not accusing you of being addicted to gambling. All I want you to do is ask yourself those questions, and be honest when you answer them. I'm up to my ar$e with work Spanish, got a meeting in a few hours that I still have stuff to do for, but I've taken the time to write this post. Please take the time to take it seriously.

**Mods; somebody mentioned this earlier on I think, but maybe the questions part of this thread is "sticky-worthy", or at least in a more prominant position?? There's no need to make an example of Spanish, all in all he's a good kid, but I think there are many more like him watching in the wings**
 
I am willing to bet the exact opposite; coming to the end of Fridays session, the speculators will have been doing two things; The ones with testicles the size of bowling balls will have been closing out their positions so they are flat over the weekend. The other traders, the brave ones, will have bought the new highs. I doubt that either will be net short.

And as for the million $$ per pip... do you know what a future is?

Firstly, Spanish, you do not know anything near enough about the Oil markets to be trading it. Do you Understand Contango? Crack Spreads? Inventories? Output? Distressed Cargo? Do you know what the Geo-Political factors driving oil prices are? like War?? Cost of Carry? Do you know who Platts are? Basis risk? What is the difference bewtween WTI and Brent?

I have no hesitation in suggesting that you don't. In fact, you say things like



Which goes to show how little you understand about the oil market. A lack of understanding that extends to the most basic of economic principles and their application:

(re: a short oil position):



If you cannot appreciate the inconsistencies of your statements, then you really do have an intimate relationship with "the wrong end of the stick" (probably something Freudian in that, you know). Repeatedly you have challenged others to explain "using numbers and logic" why a particular set of statements or conditions are not as you see them; try not to be insulted Spanish , but someone really has to tell you that you are not bright enough to understand what you are doing or why you are wrong. It has infact been explained to you a hundred times, you just can't grasp the concepts.

[Look mate, I know that's a bit harsh, but sometimes you just have to say it as you see it. The fact of the matter is that I wouldn't be trying to steer you in the right direction if I thought you were a w@nker; on the contrary, you are quite endearing, and I at least am genuinly trying to help you out. It's just that sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind, and this is one of those times: Spanish, mate, you aren't smart enough to trade.]

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Trading is a stressful business. Nobody can do it forever, we just hope that we can do it for as long as we want and need to. Surving as a trader is much more a marathon than a sprint, and it makes sense to take a break every now and again, relax, and drink Rum Punch on a beach, or spend time with your family, whatever. It just isn't possible to continuously trade without a "time out" every now and again. To find out if it's time to take a break, ask yourself a few questions (If you get 5 or more, it's time to book some holiday):

1. Do you lose time from work due to trading?

2. Is trading making your home life unhappy?

3. Is trading affecting your reputation?

4. Have you ever felt remorse after trading?

5. Do you ever trade to get money with which to pay debts or to otherwise solve financial difficulties?

6. Does trading cause a decrease in your ambition or efficiency?

7. After a losing trade, do you feel you must return as soon as possible and win back your losses.

8. After a winning trade do you have a strong urge to return and win more?

9. Do you often trade until your last pound is gone?

10. Do you ever borrow to finance your trading?

11. Have you ever sold anything to finance trading?

12. Are you reluctant to use trading money for normal expenditures?

13. Does trading make you careless of the welfare of your family?

14. Do you trade longer than you planned?

15. Do you ever trade to escape worry or trouble?

16. Have you ever committed, or considered committing, an illegal act to finance trading?

17. Does trading cause you to have difficulty in sleeping?

18. Do arguments, disappointments, or frustrations create an urge within you to trade?

19. Do you have an urge to celebrate any good fortune by a few hours trading?

20. Have you ever considered self-destruction as a result of your trading?

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

OK, OK, I wasn't entirely accurate. The above list was copied and pasted from the Gamblers Anonymous website. I have replaced the word "Gambling" with "Trading". The site suggests that compusive gamblers will answer 7+ of the above "yes" (OK, so I said 5, my bad). This isn't really the point though, is it.

Spanish, it does appear to me that you are gambling much more than trading, and you don't look like stopping. Nothing wrong with gambling, either at the races, playing poker with your mates, or having a little flutter on the Dow. Thing is though, there comes a point where you've got to stop. Maybe this is one of the reasons trading is a little different to gambling - as a trader, you don't get to say "start trading" or "stop trading" - you just take the good trades as they come along, else do nothing. In order to see where the good trades are, you have to understand your market. It's not exhilirating when your in profit, it's exactly what you expected, because you understand your market. To gamble on the dogs, you have to turn up and pick a trap number. Your trading seems much more the latter than the former, which is why I posted those questions.

Gamblers Anonymous (UK) Are You A Compulsive Gambler ?

Now before you start getting aggressive, I'm not accusing you of being addicted to gambling. All I want you to do is ask yourself those questions, and be honest when you answer them. I'm up to my ar$e with work Spanish, got a meeting in a few hours that I still have stuff to do for, but I've taken the time to write this post. Please take the time to take it seriously.

**Mods; somebody mentioned this earlier on I think, but maybe the questions part of this thread is "sticky-worthy", or at least in a more prominant position?? There's no need to make an example of Spanish, all in all he's a good kid, but I think there are many more like him watching in the wings**

Agree with the bulk for your post. However, don't believe you need a comprehensive knowledge of the oil market fundamentals to trade oil successfuly.
 
I think we should leave Spanich to learn by himself , markets is a good teacher .
He asked about oil , the best scenario in my opinion that the oil rush will end soon , but who knows where is the top ? maybe 140-170 area then selloff 25-30% or more ! . If there is no wars ofcourse .
Second scenario continous rally to 200 mark !! i think this unlikely soon . Even hedge funds guys doesnt know where is the top they r trying to push up and up ( Greed ) untill all look for an exit !
 
:LOL::LOL::LOL:


Ok mr big man tell me and everyone else exactly how you trade then??

When you sit down infront of the screen what 'exactly' makes you choose to trade and how 'exactly' you choose which way to trade it??

And then tell us exactly how many pips you made today doing that.. :LOL:



Cos there are so many bullshi***rs on here its incredible!! :LOL::devilish::LOL:

You can't claim people here are bullshi***rs unless you know what's what and what's not. You clearly DO NOT KNOW what's what and what's not. You should never, never, never trade beyond your comfort level let alone your level of affordability. The only advice people should be giving you is to CLOSE YOUR POSITION AND STOP TRADING. NEVER TRADE ON CREDIT, NEVER.
 
No one knows whether Oil ( or anything else ) is going to go up or down. You should of had a valid reason for entering this trade. One thing I have learnt is NEVER think it will go down just because it has risen so quickly.

You may get lucky if Oil falls now but you are not trading, you are gambling and there are not many rich gamblers around.

No one can be certain what will happen but higher oil means weaker dollar, so even though the dollar might have caused it, the higher price should continue because
the current account deficit will be worse off fueling more oil buyers.

It seems risky to short oil when speculators are predicting $150 dollars soon, the market seems more bullish at the moment, and you should only buy if the technicals so so.

I trade forex not oil, but i would like to buy and hold a few oil minnows for the future
because the price is only going to go higher and higher over the next 5 years.
 
because the price is only going to go higher and higher over the next 5 years.

Why? Anything can happen over 5 years and I think alot of the current bull arguments on oil are eing put in the media with all the bear arguments being completely ignored. Until that is the speculators start to trade the short side as the path of least resistance
 
oil trade from today


Great entry and exit! Had a look at oil myself yesterday.

Spanish, you say nobody on here actually successfully trades and are bulll****ters, but there are actually a number of traders who consistantly post winning realtime trades or screenshsots to prove the trades were taken.

I think rather than the rep system there should be an 'ability rep system'
where people gain points through realtime trading calls. Wouild definitely seperate the talkers from the do'ers.


Hats of to Devilicus, Firewalker, Paul71, Dinos, Grey1 and at least a handful of other proven traders who I have not mentioned.

Ultimately, I think it will be the market who teaches you the ways. For most people (including you) its not good enough to just hear that your trading method is flawed. You need it to be proven to you. The market is the best at this. Good luck
 
because the price is only going to go higher and higher over the next 5 years.

Why? Anything can happen over 5 years and I think alot of the current bull arguments on oil are eing put in the media with all the bear arguments being completely ignored. Until that is the speculators start to trade the short side as the path of least resistance

Good points, but i disagree that the reason people are bullish on oil is because of the media, the real reason is Ben Bernanke printing dollars like their going out of fashion,
more money supply = more dollars to buy oil = devalued fiat currency = higher oil price
and just about higher anything else price, its not that the price of oil that is going up, its the price of money that is going down!
 
hey spanish i reckon you should sell some more oil at these prices !
i spoke to my mate and he told me oil is going to go to under $100 dollars a barrel on thursday at approx 5pm, get short mate, remember me when you make the millions
 
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