Obsessed with Trading

[redart]

3. What is the dream? Is the dream to trade for a living? Or is the dream not to have to do those things you mention. In other words, are you just trying to get away from something, or do you actually love to trade. If someone could hand you a future where you earned from trading enough to cover your living costs, but would never be rich, would you do it?

Thats interesting.
Personally (and this is something i wrote a long time ago on this forum and again now), If you could guarantee me about minimum wage for the rest of my life from trading, then i'd likely snap your hand off!

 

[advfntrader]

thanks for your psych-analysis !...

1. very poor money management and trading under capitalised led to risking too much, hopefully lessons learned...

2. not un-happy as such, unfulfilled and not as successful as I would like to be... annoyance with working for large corporate companies and their stupid rules, systems

3.interesting question - not sure, I'm in it for a better future, just enough to get by is not enough

I will disagree with many here, and say that obsession is not the problem here. Einstein was obsessed with physics, Newton with maths, Joes Mourinho is obsessed with football, Tiger Woods was obsessed with golf etc. All massively successful in their chosen field.

To reach the highest standard, sometimes obsession is necessary. So what do I think is the problem here?

You mentioned:
1) many blown accounts
2) Look at others in work and think they are all so sad as they are all working in the rat race, in jobs they don't like but they don't know the "secret" that the markets could unlock for them !!!
3) its the dream. the thought of providing for yourself with no boss, no commute, no office politics.

1. means that either you don't use proper money management, or you have emotional blowups which then result in account blowups. Both can be worked on. It takes a LOT of trades to blow up when you are risking 1%, even with an average system. Do you trade at 1% or less?

2. You say you're looking at others, but really this is a reflection of you looking at yourself and being unhappy with yourself. Are you self-destructive?

3. What is the dream? Is the dream to trade for a living? Or is the dream not to have to do those things you mention. In other words, are you just trying to get away from something, or do you actually love to trade. If someone could hand you a future where you earned from trading enough to cover your living costs, but would never be rich, would you do it?

I hope you don't find my reply offensive in any way, it isn't meant to be. I don't know you so I could easily be wrong, but from the small posts you have in this thread, I would imagine you are unhappy with your life, you're angry with yourself because of that, and are self-destructive as a result. Which means you often won't do what you need to do to trade.

 

[gamma]

Jason
I think JDTRADER put up a link for a company where you can do smaller stakes
I don't know them but if it does the job good.
I use alpari for my massive 10p bets

One thing I reiterate and emphasize is the folly of the demonrevenge trade to which I am sure we have all been subjected too.
I still get caught by it even after all these years.
I take some satisfaction from the fact that the does not have such a big impact on my account.

 

[oildaytrader]

Jason
I think JDTRADER put up a link for a company where you can do smaller stakes
I don't know them but if it does the job good.
I use alpari for my massive 10p bets

One thing I reiterate and emphasize is the folly of the demonrevenge trade to which I am sure we have all been subjected too.
I still get caught by it even after all these years.
I take some satisfaction from the fact that the does not have such a big impact on my account.

Trade the size you would normally trade.Practising on smaller lot sizes than expected lot sizes has a different perspective to dealing with fear and greed.Change to a much higher
position size is where traders screw up.They simply can't handle the fear of losing big money, this is when they lose their bottle.

 

[kimo'sabby]

I'm sure this is a common problem...

when you have a full time job and have been trying to make trading work for you for a number of years, following the markets every day, demo trading, many blown accounts etc. there comes a point when you become SO obsessed with trading and the Goal to trade for a living, IT CAN BE DONE, you want to devote your whole time to this to make it work !....that you begin to lose interest in your work, lose motivation, become anti-establishment etc. Look at others in work and think they are all so sad as they are all working in the rat race, in jobs they don't like but they don't know the "secret" that the markets could unlock for them !!!

the danger is here that if you are not financially in a position to trade full time yet - you end up in a bad place, not doing a good job and also not trading . ie. just DREAMING !!!

anyone else find this ???

It's ironic, because not all proficient traders are happy/satisfied people.

 

[4xpipcounter]

Timarus, let me give you a little pesonal backgroundon when I started. It may be of help.
I was holding down another job when I first started on 2004. My first year I made nothing...period. It was understood between my wife and I that after I got home from my j-o-b, I needed at least 2 hours of time to work on my 2nd "job". There was a quiet area of the home set aside that was a condusive quiet work enironment. If the grnadchildren happen to pop over, they knew that area was off limits until Grandpa was done.
Today, this is my only job. The office looks a little nicer. THings have shaped up nicely. But, it is still understood I have certain work hours. My wife does not understand the why and the wherefore of what I do. She just knows I have certain hours for work and absolute confomity is needed with those wishes.
To one degree or another, this is what your environment needs to be. In 2004, I also let me wife know what I was doing and gave her a clear picture of what is going to happen. She took me serious and treated my ambitions seriously.
I didn't read most of this thread. Your post just stood out. Hopefully it helped....a little.

Hi

I was keen to keen to get to grips with trading so I could do it full time, however the arrival of children seriously impacts your time and concentration , especially when trying to analyse markets, place and manage trades etc. Getting married to a long Lehman position didn't help the account much either

Now I just do a morning FX trade or an evening ES trade, targeting 20 pips a day and 100 pips a week. Focus is now on consistency and technique.

Finding I am achieving more success doing this without spending a lot of time doing it.

Keeps wife and kids happy as well

Cheers

T

 

[Jason101]

advfntrader put me on to Smart Live Markets. 10p per pip min deposit £30.

http://www.smartlivemarkets.co.uk/Index.aspx

Thanks JDTRADER, I sent them an email straight away, I like the fact they use MT4

Jason
I think JDTRADER put up a link for a company where you can do smaller stakes
I don't know them but if it does the job good.
I use alpari for my massive 10p bets

One thing I reiterate and emphasize is the folly of the demonrevenge trade to which I am sure we have all been subjected too.
I still get caught by it even after all these years.
I take some satisfaction from the fact that the does not have such a big impact on my account.

Thanks gamma I will try them if smart live markets does not work out for me.
I love the idea, of down sizing for fun as a break if on a drawdown.

Trade the size you would normally trade.Practising on smaller lot sizes than expected lot sizes has a different perspective to dealing with fear and greed.Change to a much higher
position size is where traders screw up.They simply can't handle the fear of losing big money, this is when they lose their bottle.

I am a natural gambler and I think a small account with low stake trades will be a way to keep me amused until my set ups occurs, and take out any frustration for revenge trading. Believe me fear of loosing and no bottle is not my problem.

 

[4xpipcounter]

Trading is still an obsession with me, and this is my only j-o-b. It is also a hobby to me. So, I agree with how you feel.
There's an important element here. Many people start with great grandiose plans. They want to jump in, make it big and are in a hurry to grow their accounts, so they can quit their job next week (Figure of speech. You know what I am saying.). Don't get the cart in front of the horse. Don't make goals, such as I will quit my job on such and such date. Don't worry about huge gains on your trades. Do not over margin any trades in hoping that will be your big one. Be consistent, and if anything, very conservative. 3 or 4 trades of winning 20 pips each will add greater confidence over the long haul, than winning 100 pips on one trade and giving it all back the next. All that did was allow someone to brag about the good trade, but reality says they didn't make a dime.
Personally, it is still a thrill to look back one week ago, and know I have more money in my account right now. It is still a thrill just to close a trade that is a winner.
Just stay within your own personal parameters. Take it one trade at a time. Eventually, you will see consistent growth. It will keep growing. Then, you will be able to withdraw enough to have backup money (very necessary), and then you can leave your job, and sit in front of your computer and trade, trade, trade.

 

[4xpipcounter]

I think Shakone has hit the nail on the head in many points. Most of the time, in telling the truth, it is not something that would tickle us behind the ears, but rather something that would come across sounding cruel. Let's face it. We are dealing with a problem, as per the reason this thread was opened. You are looking for answers. The wrong answers would be, "advfntrader, you are such a great guy, and you are doing such a wonderful job in trading." Granted you might be a nice guy, but that is not the point. Yes, I'm leading up to something. I am also about to hit you in the gut, but I hope it will be taken as constructive criticism, rather than me sounding like a bad boy.
I like to view trading as having 3 absolute essentials, and without any of the 3 you are doomed to failure. I believe 2 have been covered to some extent. The 3 are the 3 M's--Methodology, Margin management, and Mind management. I do not believe there is one trader who lacks in any of those three categories who is trading successfully today. Through what I've read, it seems your have learned your lesson with over-margining. The obvious trait is you need a bullet-proof methodology to trade by.
The subtle and hidden part of the whole is the Mind management. From a trader's point of view it revolves around 2 sub-headings which are fear and greed. Mind management is not a bunch of PMA, but it is more preparation. Mentally, you need to be prepared for trading. This is my key point:
I am hearing a lot of frustration coming from you. You are in a hurry and very anxious to leave your job and trade full-time.
Be glad you have a job. Many people don't have a job. Be glad you have the kind of job that can give you the initial funding for your trading. Right now, you are working full-time for a large corporation, so put your whole heart into it. They may have "stupid rules", but unless you are in charge of making them, don't worry about it. Put everything you got into your current job. Be happy! Think of all the things your current has done for you. Treat as it is the only thing you have in your life. When it comes time to clock out, put it all behind you, and then get with where your heart really is. Don't expect to be a disgruntle at your current job, and then all of a sudden, expect to turn on the positive juices for your trading.
Once you are in front of your screen, stick to your methodology, and the common sense margining that you know is right for you. Don't let greed take a hold of your psyche. Once in the trade, do not let fear grip you and take you out of your trade earlier than you should. Enjoy an unblemished confidence in your methodology. If you can't, then your methodology needs some more working on. At that point it is back to square one, and refine what needs working on.
It seems like it will never happen being able to trade full-time. Remember, even if it takes 10 years, it will be worth it, because you will still have the rest of your life to reap its rewards. Having said that, you need to be an All-Star in all aspects of what I told you about. It's a world of lions, and you will be eaten unless you are in the higher echelons of all traders. So, become a lion tamer, enjoy the journey, smile, be happy, don't worry about anything. Put all you got into all you do, and the time will fly.
BTW, one side note. Being under capitalized is no excuse. Greed becomes a problem. If you have $200K in your account, then trade and act like it--margin accordingly. If you have $200 in your account, then trade and act like it--margin accordingly. Do you get the picture? Be honest with yourself. You are not a lesser man, because you have x amount of dollars in your account and someone else has 100 times what you have. It's just like I am not better than the next person just because I used to work in a factory, and now trading is my only job. The difference for me today is the lots per trade is greater, even though my percentage per trade is the same. The difference is I just have a dollar or two more in my account (figure of speech).

thanks for your psych-analysis !...

1. very poor money management and trading under capitalised led to risking too much, hopefully lessons learned...

2. not un-happy as such, unfulfilled and not as successful as I would like to be... annoyance with working for large corporate companies and their stupid rules, systems

3.interesting question - not sure, I'm in it for a better future, just enough to get by is not enough

 

[advfntrader]

pipcounter, you are 100% correct ! this is exactly what I have been needing to hear. thank you for your honest words, I will work to be more contented, there is no rush, I will start trading a micro account and hopefully over time things progress from there...

I think Shakone has hit the nail on the head in many points. Most of the time, in telling the truth, it is not something that would tickle us behind the ears, but rather something that would come across sounding cruel. Let's face it. We are dealing with a problem, as per the reason this thread was opened. You are looking for answers. The wrong answers would be, "advfntrader, you are such a great guy, and you are doing such a wonderful job in trading." Granted you might be a nice guy, but that is not the point. Yes, I'm leading up to something. I am also about to hit you in the gut, but I hope it will be taken as constructive criticism, rather than me sounding like a bad boy.
I like to view trading as having 3 absolute essentials, and without any of the 3 you are doomed to failure. I believe 2 have been covered to some extent. The 3 are the 3 M's--Methodology, Margin management, and Mind management. I do not believe there is one trader who lacks in any of those three categories who is trading successfully today. Through what I've read, it seems your have learned your lesson with over-margining. The obvious trait is you need a bullet-proof methodology to trade by.
The subtle and hidden part of the whole is the Mind management. From a trader's point of view it revolves around 2 sub-headings which are fear and greed. Mind management is not a bunch of PMA, but it is more preparation. Mentally, you need to be prepared for trading. This is my key point:
I am hearing a lot of frustration coming from you. You are in a hurry and very anxious to leave your job and trade full-time.
Be glad you have a job. Many people don't have a job. Be glad you have the kind of job that can give you the initial funding for your trading. Right now, you are working full-time for a large corporation, so put your whole heart into it. They may have "stupid rules", but unless you are in charge of making them, don't worry about it. Put everything you got into your current job. Be happy! Think of all the things your current has done for you. Treat as it is the only thing you have in your life. When it comes time to clock out, put it all behind you, and then get with where your heart really is. Don't expect to be a disgruntle at your current job, and then all of a sudden, expect to turn on the positive juices for your trading.
Once you are in front of your screen, stick to your methodology, and the common sense margining that you know is right for you. Don't let greed take a hold of your psyche. Once in the trade, do not let fear grip you and take you out of your trade earlier than you should. Enjoy an unblemished confidence in your methodology. If you can't, then your methodology needs some more working on. At that point it is back to square one, and refine what needs working on.
It seems like it will never happen being able to trade full-time. Remember, even if it takes 10 years, it will be worth it, because you will still have the rest of your life to reap its rewards. Having said that, you need to be an All-Star in all aspects of what I told you about. It's a world of lions, and you will be eaten unless you are in the higher echelons of all traders. So, become a lion tamer, enjoy the journey, smile, be happy, don't worry about anything. Put all you got into all you do, and the time will fly.
BTW, one side note. Being under capitalized is no excuse. Greed becomes a problem. If you have $200K in your account, then trade and act like it--margin accordingly. If you have $200 in your account, then trade and act like it--margin accordingly. Do you get the picture? Be honest with yourself. You are not a lesser man, because you have x amount of dollars in your account and someone else has 100 times what you have. It's just like I am not better than the next person just because I used to work in a factory, and now trading is my only job. The difference for me today is the lots per trade is greater, even though my percentage per trade is the same. The difference is I just have a dollar or two more in my account (figure of speech).

 

[JDTRADER]

I will work to be more contented, there is no rush, I will start trading a micro account and hopefully over time things progress from there...

That's all I'm doing buddy, just plugging away. From small acorns great trees grow....
:smart:

 

[4xpipcounter]

Good! Goal accomplished!
Things will progress over time, as long as you have a proven methodology, you keep greed out of your margining practices, and you keep your head properly in the game. After that, it is just a matter of building one good trade on top of another. When you do get losing trades, treat it just like your winning trades--just another day at the office.
I'll be cheering you on!

pipcounter, you are 100% correct ! this is exactly what I have been needing to hear. thank you for your honest words, I will work to be more contented, there is no rush, I will start trading a micro account and hopefully over time things progress from there...

 

[rawrschach]

advfn, dude, you have been doing this for years.

Seykota said that everyone gets what they want out of the market (and I agree with him). Hate to break it to you dude but after almost 3 years of watching you make these threads it is evident that all you want out of the market is some war stories.