Grey1
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No B.S. Day Trading
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AgentZ86
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small time trader here
I'm small time trader, here but have learned technical trading from MTI no indicators etc. just technical analysis and stay away from fundies.
The traders that trained me, have been trading for over 20 years, and trade 2,000 lots and up all the time, and some of them have recently just learned to technical trade from MTI as well.
I don't see any point in learning all the aspects of fundimental trading and scalping a few pips here and there when technical trading and money management is just too easy to learn.
It's the emotional game that makes the losers. Trading is 90% emotions and 10% knowledge. The problem is: That many have pointed out that if you are long 500 and the market goes against you that your stomach is churning when it goes against you even 4 pips ? Thats the whole point really. So they don't have a pure entry or exit strategy so they just randomly get in the market, then emotionally get out of the market, jump back in again while listening to the news.
I'm only a small time trader, but have found my own playing field in techincals and can say that just because someone does something and it works does not make it right; and also it doesn't make it wrong it just means it works for them.
Why do people insist on laying down the law and stating their oppinion as law when there are many different types of successful traders out there ?
There is no proof that techincal trading is no good just as there is no proof that fundimantal trading is no good.
All are good if your making pips, and all are bad if your not :idea:
I do know that if your trading technicals it appears to be best to stay completely away from fundimentals to trade your technicals because it causes whiplash. I don't trade the fundies, but can observe this on the charts when reports come out. Then things seem to go back to following the technicals until the next report
Just like today with the NFP reports and Manufacturing payroll, US strengthen against the EUR way down 80 pips in 5 min. then BOOM way back up again in the next 5min. Who needs that kind of instability when trading ?
No wonder people get emotional when trading. I'm not opposed to fundi trading, but I'm emotional and I don't think I could handle it. I have to have set entries and set stops, and min. 1:2 risk/reward period. This allows me to be wrong 50% of the time and still make money. 1:3 is better I can then be wrong 66% of the time and still make money and if I only trade 1:4 risk/reward then I can be wrong 75% of the time and still make a little money. But if I'm in the 60-80% correct trading range, then 1:4 ratio can really bring home the bacon.
Anyhow, thats a quick tip for newbie traders to think about.
Happy trading to all and I wish you major pipeage
I'm small time trader, here but have learned technical trading from MTI no indicators etc. just technical analysis and stay away from fundies.
The traders that trained me, have been trading for over 20 years, and trade 2,000 lots and up all the time, and some of them have recently just learned to technical trade from MTI as well.
I don't see any point in learning all the aspects of fundimental trading and scalping a few pips here and there when technical trading and money management is just too easy to learn.
It's the emotional game that makes the losers. Trading is 90% emotions and 10% knowledge. The problem is: That many have pointed out that if you are long 500 and the market goes against you that your stomach is churning when it goes against you even 4 pips ? Thats the whole point really. So they don't have a pure entry or exit strategy so they just randomly get in the market, then emotionally get out of the market, jump back in again while listening to the news.
I'm only a small time trader, but have found my own playing field in techincals and can say that just because someone does something and it works does not make it right; and also it doesn't make it wrong it just means it works for them.
Why do people insist on laying down the law and stating their oppinion as law when there are many different types of successful traders out there ?
There is no proof that techincal trading is no good just as there is no proof that fundimantal trading is no good.
All are good if your making pips, and all are bad if your not :idea:
I do know that if your trading technicals it appears to be best to stay completely away from fundimentals to trade your technicals because it causes whiplash. I don't trade the fundies, but can observe this on the charts when reports come out. Then things seem to go back to following the technicals until the next report
Just like today with the NFP reports and Manufacturing payroll, US strengthen against the EUR way down 80 pips in 5 min. then BOOM way back up again in the next 5min. Who needs that kind of instability when trading ?
No wonder people get emotional when trading. I'm not opposed to fundi trading, but I'm emotional and I don't think I could handle it. I have to have set entries and set stops, and min. 1:2 risk/reward period. This allows me to be wrong 50% of the time and still make money. 1:3 is better I can then be wrong 66% of the time and still make money and if I only trade 1:4 risk/reward then I can be wrong 75% of the time and still make a little money. But if I'm in the 60-80% correct trading range, then 1:4 ratio can really bring home the bacon.
Anyhow, thats a quick tip for newbie traders to think about.
Happy trading to all and I wish you major pipeage
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Mr. Charts
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"Why do people insist on laying down the law and stating their oppinion as law when there are many different types of successful traders out there ?"
Very well said.
Why indeed?
Richard
Very well said.
Why indeed?
Richard
BSD
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Why ?
Ego imo.
Given the choice I firmly believe that people would prefer being right over making money, given the choice most people would prefer that others see them as clever, rather than just getting on with making their pile in whatever way that gets the job done.
I have always believed that a typical hall mark of a loser is an intense focus on others, both in a sense of what others have achieved, and also in an insecure constant worry of how they believe they come across.
Winners are far firmly planted and balanced in their own universe, not caring all that much about what others have done, or how others view them, and in their interactions with others winners are far more positive, ie if they interact its usually constructive, and not a waste of time an energy on negatives that simply come back again anyway.
Action = Reaction.
Think it was Onassis who said that people should stop trying to lead others lives or permanently worry about image, and instead get on with their own and live it to the max.
That is indeed a prerequisite for success I believe.
Ego imo.
Given the choice I firmly believe that people would prefer being right over making money, given the choice most people would prefer that others see them as clever, rather than just getting on with making their pile in whatever way that gets the job done.
I have always believed that a typical hall mark of a loser is an intense focus on others, both in a sense of what others have achieved, and also in an insecure constant worry of how they believe they come across.
Winners are far firmly planted and balanced in their own universe, not caring all that much about what others have done, or how others view them, and in their interactions with others winners are far more positive, ie if they interact its usually constructive, and not a waste of time an energy on negatives that simply come back again anyway.
Action = Reaction.
Think it was Onassis who said that people should stop trying to lead others lives or permanently worry about image, and instead get on with their own and live it to the max.
That is indeed a prerequisite for success I believe.
Mr. Charts
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Spot on BSD.
Some think they know it all and denigrate and attempt to ridicule others, usually by gross distortions and lying.
They have their dedicated followers who almost worship them. They tend to wear their hearts on their sleeves and continually boast of their achievements. Very beguiling.
Of such stuff dictators are made.
Richard
Some think they know it all and denigrate and attempt to ridicule others, usually by gross distortions and lying.
They have their dedicated followers who almost worship them. They tend to wear their hearts on their sleeves and continually boast of their achievements. Very beguiling.
Of such stuff dictators are made.
Richard
BSD
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One thing that struck me is how incredibly fun, upbeat, positive and optimistic someone like Billionaire Richard Branson comes across, if you haven't read his book yet I can wholeheartedly recommend that:
Losing My Virginity: How I've Survived, Had Fun, and Made a Fortune Doing Business My Way
Good eye for the girls as well.
Losing My Virginity: How I've Survived, Had Fun, and Made a Fortune Doing Business My Way
Good eye for the girls as well.
I read through the forums but didn't see a reply to this. Could someone please help and explain how an average trader at home could access order book information? Be it spot FX, options or futures etc.
Thanks,
Li
trader_dante
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FuturesBetting offer you Level II. Infact they let you trade off of something that looks remarkably like TT which we use at our firm and is a very professional setup. I have a demo account with them and am very impressed by what I have seen so far.
I also think some of the exchanges have order book info. I know you can get the order flow for the Dow, for free, from the CBOT.
BSD
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new_trader
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SFL Trader
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Scalpers basically look for momentum plays. As soon as the momentum stops, they are usually out. They make decisions by watching the bids and offers, also called "reading the tape". They don't always have profit or stop targets and tend to make decisions from moment to moment depending upon what they see happening. They mainly look for quick profits but will take large winners if they catch a good move. You won't see a scalper let a five tick winner turn into a loss.
trader_dante
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You usually don't see a scalper take a fifty tick gain either although when you look at the higher TFs its fairly obvious it's coming.
SFL Trader
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You can access the order book for futures through a market depth trader of some sort. Trading Technologies' X Trader is the best in my opinion but if you're trading small, it's not worth the out of pocket expense. There are some other platforms like Transact AT and Ninja trader that you can check out. Call your broker and find out what he has available. I'm not sure where you can find market depth for options or spot fx.
SFL Trader
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Timsk,
Yes, I discuss these points, yes, I explain what to look for and yes, I provide clear examples. I will also tell you that it takes some time to see it because it's unfamiliar territory for most. I explain what's happening but you have to stare at a market depth trader and actually look for the setups I discuss. No, I do not provide charts that conflict with my viewpoints because it's very easy to make a chart look however you want it to look. If you want to look at a chart and see where the major levels are, that's fine and it's a good idea to know what numbers everyone is watching but being able to read the order flow increases your odds of making the correct decision at those levels and it also enables you to make trades that purely technical traders will never take...not because they're not good trades but because there aren't any technicals which can explain what's happening.
SFL Trader
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Grey1
If you make money doing what you do, then I also say "good luck" to you, sir, and may the trading gods be in your corner. But you are not telling the whole story.
The concept of scalping may not be new to you but I've received many responses from people on this site who are not familiar with it and are looking for more information.
I've traded U.S. treasury futures, the Eminis, the bund and bobl, the eurostoxx, the dow, as well as stocks on the Nasdaq and the NYSE and I can tell you that scalping works in all of those markets except NYSE stocks. Specialists still run it. It is what it is.
Algorithms certainly have an impact but that is why you avoid playing in the chop. You pick spots where it is clear that a person is making the decisions because, as you say, "Even program traders get caught scalping if a new information( all categories of NEWS ) HIT the market". If program traders override their own programs, that sort of makes my case for me. Someone else said something about emotions making up 90% of trading and if you have a technical approach, you're cutting out the emotions. I agree that a trader must have an extraordinary amount of personal discipline but wouldn't it be wise to have a grasp on how emotions affect the market? Isn't it wise to understand that when a bunch of people panic and sell, you don't want to stand in front of them. Not until they're all done selling. It's not rocket science.
The markets are not efficient. I'm surprised you even said that. They never have been and they never will be because this is a big damn game. In theory, a stock is worth a certain price but how do you know what that price is? You can't see the company's books. In theory, a commodity is worth a certain price but oil was at $145 two months ago and now it's at $107. Did the fundamentals change so much in two months? Did the algorithms bring it back in line?
No. When more money was interested in buying, it went up and when more money was interested in selling, it went down. It's that simple.
Scalping is risk adjusted to the extreme because a scalper is always looking for the best possible price. Sometimes I miss trades because of this but also saves me sometimes. Scalping is simply about looking for momentum and trying to ride it. When there's not any, you don't trade.
My thing with technicals is that, if a technical setup works, there's a reason for it. It didn't work because it's a technical setup. It worked because more money went with the setup than against it. Even if it was money being tossed around by an algorithm, you still see the trades taking place. You see the market trade 1,000, then go bid the next price...and the next.
In regards to calling the market live, the only way I could do that is if you are watching my TT screen...a project I'm working on but am not allowed to discuss in the forums. I freely admit that my opinion can change very quickly and I consider that to be a good thing because the market can reverse at the drop of a hat. Being capable of scratching has saved me much money and one of the points I stress is, if you're a day trader, you just can't take 10 and 15 point losers and you can't let winning trades turn into losing trades. However, I sent a request to join your group and will try to listen in on your next meeting (depending on what time it is). I am curious about your methods.
And I didn't write the book for you. I wrote it for traders who aren't familiar with scalping or how to do it profitably and it's designed to keep people from becoming bogged down in a quagmire of charts and indicators. To give them a new perspective and to explain what actually drives markets...money.
SFL Trader
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When you see a fifty tick winner coming, please send me a private message. I'll be happy to get the last ten ticks.
I am all the way with SFL here. I ve seen what the big boys can do and cant agree with him more. ALthough scalping loses its meaning among the biggest guys since they keep on hitting or lifting the market and try to end up on a good avg price creating 20-30 tick moves in the bund for ex out of the blue. So if a 5 tick profit is a scalp trade for u for a big boy is peanuts
grey1, sfl trades futures and you trade equities. And as you know the order book is different in both.
I have follwed both your swing strategy and both true micro scalping.
I would say scalping is far less risk adversed as you are not exposed to the market for long periods. Also i find by trading small targets im not concerned with missing the big moves as long as i just strickly get my target. If you can keep your disciplne and forget about the big trends and just take your small highly probable cut out of each range or trend and keep costs down scalping is very viable imo. Im finding the entry to your methods very difficult and market can move along way against me before the actual macci method works, also I have problems detremining techical and non techical days which can change just like that. With scalping I do not have to be as aware of news events as you do.......Scalping is far less emotional too as i said before your not exposed for long periods.
Of course your basket trading style reduces risk but as you are holding overnight news events can and have affected your postions.....
just my thoughts, please put me right, what do you think?
I have follwed both your swing strategy and both true micro scalping.
I would say scalping is far less risk adversed as you are not exposed to the market for long periods. Also i find by trading small targets im not concerned with missing the big moves as long as i just strickly get my target. If you can keep your disciplne and forget about the big trends and just take your small highly probable cut out of each range or trend and keep costs down scalping is very viable imo. Im finding the entry to your methods very difficult and market can move along way against me before the actual macci method works, also I have problems detremining techical and non techical days which can change just like that. With scalping I do not have to be as aware of news events as you do.......Scalping is far less emotional too as i said before your not exposed for long periods.
Of course your basket trading style reduces risk but as you are holding overnight news events can and have affected your postions.....
just my thoughts, please put me right, what do you think?
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