Making a Living from Trading

[Cornix]

Would you put Oanda in that category?

If so, what would you recommend to the retail trader?

You took the words out of my mouth.

I day trade with Oanda since 2005, have a few trading buddies who do the same.

Often my stop-losses are as tiny as 4 pips (I regularly post real life examples of trades made through Oanda in my price action trading blog, http://www.cornixforex.com).

And the longer I trade, the more I am sure that ripoff by the brokers, at least with the case of reputable companies, such as Oanda is more rationalization of one's losses than objective fact.

How do I know? "Trust, but verify" as Reagan said about us, Russians once. :cheesy:

I regularly compare quotes I get @ Oanda with 6E quotes and spot forex feeds from other providers. And can't say I am aware of some fraud from my broker.

Don't mean to say that shady forex bucket shops don't exist, of course they do, but just like many futures and options brokers, which are aware of clients' orders and have their own trading desks active in the same products. They don't interact with guys who are aware of clients' orders... In theory. Any mentally adult person should know that theory and practice may differ.

Just trade well and you'll be real hard to rip off. No broker in it's mind will push their quotes so much off the general market to get your stop if your trade is good from the start. It would simply be too obvious and stupid, hence everyone can compare easily and complain if finds anything, including public complaints. And reputation is an asset.

 

[VielGeld]

Yep, I'm aware brokers of good repute do not hit stops; that would just kill business instantly.

But I would be interested in a better alternative than Oanda for the sake of it. I think they're an awesome broker, but hey, if there's something better out there...

 

[Cornix]

Yep, I'm aware brokers of good repute do not hit stops; that would just kill business instantly.

But I would be interested in a better alternative than Oanda for the sake of it. I think they're an awesome broker, but hey, if there's something better out there...

For those who want all benefits of the regulated market, there's always 6E @ CME.

Used to trade spot FX through IB, also not bad, but there's some noticeable slippage even on moderate size on stop orders sometimes. Must be IDEALPRO liquidity is far from ideal.

 

[jungerns]

If you want to make a living trading then your first step is to stop trading forex with a retail broker. There are plenty of people who make decent livings trading and there are many who are rich, but there are none who do it trading retail forex.

Really well I can state with utter certainty that I know 2 and that one of them is my Uncle !!

 

[vergis92]

You took the words out of my mouth.

I day trade with Oanda since 2005, have a few trading buddies who do the same.

Often my stop-losses are as tiny as 4 pips (I regularly post real life examples of trades made through Oanda in my price action trading blog, Cornix Forex - Price Action Trading - Forex Trading Psychology & Tactics).

And the longer I trade, the more I am sure that ripoff by the brokers, at least with the case of reputable companies, such as Oanda is more rationalization of one's losses than objective fact.

How do I know? "Trust, but verify" as Reagan said about us, Russians once. :cheesy:

I regularly compare quotes I get @ Oanda with 6E quotes and spot forex feeds from other providers. And can't say I am aware of some fraud from my broker.

Don't mean to say that shady forex bucket shops don't exist, of course they do, but just like many futures and options brokers, which are aware of clients' orders and have their own trading desks active in the same products. They don't interact with guys who are aware of clients' orders... In theory. Any mentally adult person should know that theory and practice may differ.

Just trade well and you'll be real hard to rip off. No broker in it's mind will push their quotes so much off the general market to get your stop if your trade is good from the start. It would simply be too obvious and stupid, hence everyone can compare easily and complain if finds anything, including public complaints. And reputation is an asset.

I need to open an account soon, and I m thinking one of these brokers:

Oanda, Interactive Brokers, Alpari, forex.com, FXCM ,

I need 100:1 leverage, pure ECN broker, CARRY trade charges are not an issue as I will be trading small, but I need to do various trades, from scalping to swing trading, any suggestions?? it also MUST allow me to trade sublots, 0.1 0.2 0.3 0.5.... 1 lot
this detail is very important at this time, for money management reasons.

the trading system I implement is very interesting, but I want to be safe with the funds, and expand gradually to trading a $20,000 account, making $5000 per month. I need a reliable, safe broker or if that's not possible, then 2 brokers, one for scalping, one for longer term trades:?:

 

[glyder]

I need to open an account soon, and I m thinking one of these brokers:

Oanda, Interactive Brokers, Alpari, forex.com, FXCM ,

:

I recently demoed with Alparis MT4 spreadbetting service. requote requote requote! Even on demo and when the markets were quiet. Never had that with another broker on a real account let alone demo.

 

[Cornix]

I need to open an account soon, and I m thinking one of these brokers:

Oanda, Interactive Brokers, Alpari, forex.com, FXCM ,

I need 100:1 leverage, pure ECN broker, CARRY trade charges are not an issue as I will be trading small, but I need to do various trades, from scalping to swing trading, any suggestions?? it also MUST allow me to trade sublots, 0.1 0.2 0.3 0.5.... 1 lot
this detail is very important at this time, for money management reasons.

the trading system I implement is very interesting, but I want to be safe with the funds, and expand gradually to trading a $20,000 account, making $5000 per month. I need a reliable, safe broker or if that's not possible, then 2 brokers, one for scalping, one for longer term trades:?:

Neither Oanda nor IB have 100:1 leverage, GAIN Capital (Forex.com) if I remember right, doesn't have it too since the new rules were enacted in the US.

Also IB has minimum size of 25K USD notional and they charge $5 commission minimum, not very suitable for small volume trading.

Unfortunately I don't have experience with Alpari or FXCM to comment on those.

Oanda is good for scalping for sure: no commissions, very flexible position sizing and well designed order entry, which allows very quick trade entry and management.

For swing trading I think particular broker choice is less important.

 

[vergis92]

Neither Oanda nor IB have 100:1 leverage, GAIN Capital (Forex.com) if I remember right, doesn't have it too since the new rules were enacted in the US.

Also IB has minimum size of 25K USD notional and they charge $5 commission minimum, not very suitable for small volume trading.

Unfortunately I don't have experience with Alpari or FXCM to comment on those.

Oanda is good for scalping for sure: no commissions, very flexible position sizing and well designed order entry, which allows very quick trade entry and management.

For swing trading I think particular broker choice is less important.

Ok, I will check Oanda for that, thanks for the clarification

 

[EulerFourier]

Would you put Oanda in that category?

If so, what would you recommend to the retail trader?

Yes Oanda is in that category. FXCM, Alpari etc etc etc they're all the same. You have to understand when you trade with these forex bucketshops you are not trading on an exchange. By that I mean literally the bid is not dropped and the offer is not lifted when the limit orders at a given price are taken out. All these places do is stream outside quotes to you, and they can change the quote to whatever they want whenever they want even after the fact and you have no recourse.

Do you REALLY want to give your hard earned money to these scammers when you can trade on an actual exchange? Maybe if you've got under $15,000 it's your only option....but if you're trying to make a living with a retail account under $15,000 you're living in la la land anyways.

I can't possibly tell you everything but this is what I would recommend for the new retail trader: learn and read everything you can get your hands on until you've read so much that to even look at another book on trading makes you want to puke. At that point you'll be able to pick out the tiny little bits of info that are of any use in the gigantic sea of absolute B.S. that is the trading literature and community. If you absolutely must trade during this time do so only with a very small amount of money and with the understanding that you will most likely lose all of it and if you make anything it was purely by luck. Save your big guns until a later point in time when you come to the realization of how naive you were.

If you do that you'll figure out the rest on your own.

 

[The Leopard]

Good post.

Yes Oanda is in that category. FXCM, Alpari etc etc etc they're all the same. You have to understand when you trade with these forex bucketshops you are not trading on an exchange. By that I mean literally the bid is not dropped and the offer is not lifted when the limit orders at a given price are taken out. All these places do is stream outside quotes to you, and they can change the quote to whatever they want whenever they want even after the fact and you have no recourse.

Do you REALLY want to give your hard earned money to these scammers when you can trade on an actual exchange? Maybe if you've got under $15,000 it's your only option....but if you're trying to make a living with a retail account under $15,000 you're living in la la land anyways.

I can't possibly tell you everything but this is what I would recommend for the new retail trader: learn and read everything you can get your hands on until you've read so much that to even look at another book on trading makes you want to puke. At that point you'll be able to pick out the tiny little bits of info that are of any use in the gigantic sea of absolute B.S. that is the trading literature and community. If you absolutely must trade during this time do so only with a very small amount of money and with the understanding that you will most likely lose all of it and if you make anything it was purely by luck. Save your big guns until a later point in time when you come to the realization of how naive you were.

If you do that you'll figure out the rest on your own.

 

[ZEN archer]

the gigantic sea of absolute B.S. that is the trading literature and community.

well put

 

[VielGeld]

I see, thanks for the explanation.

What if I simply prefer currencies over futures for various reasons? I'm certain some retail individuals do make profits trading them.

 

[Cornix]

I see, thanks for the explanation.

What if I simply prefer currencies over futures for various reasons? I'm certain some retail individuals do make profits trading them.

As for me, I see no problem here. Even in the case of bucket shops, as long as quotes are fine, who cares if that's "real" market or not?

After all, derivatives are also a zero sum game anyway, so it's still the same principle, just the pool is bigger and sharks are too.

 

[vergis92]

Yes Oanda is in that category. FXCM, Alpari etc etc etc they're all the same. You have to understand when you trade with these forex bucketshops you are not trading on an exchange. By that I mean literally the bid is not dropped and the offer is not lifted when the limit orders at a given price are taken out. All these places do is stream outside quotes to you, and they can change the quote to whatever they want whenever they want even after the fact and you have no recourse.

Do you REALLY want to give your hard earned money to these scammers when you can trade on an actual exchange? Maybe if you've got under $15,000 it's your only option....but if you're trying to make a living with a retail account under $15,000 you're living in la la land anyways.

I can't possibly tell you everything but this is what I would recommend for the new retail trader: learn and read everything you can get your hands on until you've read so much that to even look at another book on trading makes you want to puke. At that point you'll be able to pick out the tiny little bits of info that are of any use in the gigantic sea of absolute B.S. that is the trading literature and community. If you absolutely must trade during this time do so only with a very small amount of money and with the understanding that you will most likely lose all of it and if you make anything it was purely by luck. Save your big guns until a later point in time when you come to the realization of how naive you were.

If you do that you'll figure out the rest on your own.

Oanda is a market maker broker, not ECN??


what is the best ECN broker out there? in terms of quotes, reliability in closing the trade?

Logically, all true ECN brokers CHARGE carry trade, it appears Oanda does not charge, I checked just now.... I could use them for small scalping trading but nothing else:!:

 

[Cornix]

Oanda is a market maker broker, not ECN??


what is the best ECN broker out there? in terms of quotes, reliability in closing the trade?

Logically, all true ECN brokers CHARGE carry trade, it appears Oanda does not charge, I checked just now.... I could use them for small scalping trading but nothing else:!:

Oanda is not ECN, but they do charge and pay overnight interest.

Probably some benefits over ECN even, though. Such as nearly absent slippage.

 

[vergis92]

Oanda is not ECN, but they do charge and pay overnight interest.

Probably some benefits over ECN even, though. Such as nearly absent slippage.

it appears I will need both Oanda and an ECN such as EFX, they say you cannot hedge an open trade with an ECN (something that is often needed) , that I need to do with Oanda or other.

About scalping, are you satified with Oanda for chasing small 3-10 pip moves??
if their quotes follow the market closely, their DD should be ok , we are not trading millions here.

I have used IBFX, and Alpari demo acc, Alpari requote a lot, or have delays, but it didn't really affect the trading plan, still worked.

 

[Cornix]

it appears I will need both Oanda and an ECN such as EFX, they say you cannot hedge an open trade with an ECN (something that is often needed) , that I need to do with Oanda or other.

About scalping, are you satified with Oanda for chasing small 3-10 pip moves??
if their quotes follow the market closely, their DD should be ok , we are not trading millions here.

I have used IBFX, and Alpari demo acc, Alpari requote a lot, or have delays, but it didn't really affect the trading plan, still worked.

Oanda doesn't allow simultaneously open long and short positions in the same instrument and sub-account too AFAIK.

I don't scalp for 3-10 pips, more like 10-20+ with typical stops of 6-7 (my trading tactics is more or less explained in my blog). For such trades Oanda is perfect. Deal cost is cheaper than 6E (1.2 pips spread on average vs 1 pip spread + comm. for future) and there's rarely any slippage beyond 0.1-0.2 pips.

What else can small retail day trader wish?

 

[equalizer]

I am using ATC Brokers, an introducing broker to FXCM Corporate, and they are great with execution. The spread is normally 0.7-0.9 pips (on EUR/USD). The commission is $8 round trip for 1 lot (and divides evenly down to mini lots, even smaller I believe).

However, I am moving to IB because the commission there is even less and I've read a lot of reports of price improvement on market orders there. Also I would like the ability to use the multiple front ends available there.

From my own and a friend's experience with Oanda, I have personally seen a stop taken out that did NOT hit on my FXCM account - it was a solid 1.4 pips away from the low seen in the same candle on FXCM. In fact, I've seen a stop hit that even Oanda's own charts do not show as being hit.

That said, the only other cheap alternative for FX is MB Trading ($500 minimum). It really all depends on how serious you are about your trading, how much volume you're doing, and how important price improvement and comissions are. If you're truly active and doing 100+ trades a month, I would imagine these should be priorities for any serious trader with the capital to seek out the best broker possible.

 

[Cornix]

Did you complain to Oanda for that case of stop being taken out, while not shown on the chart? Or maybe it was during the spread widening?

 

[equalizer]

Those were on my friend's account - I think he did complain about one, and they chalked it up to market volatility. I didn't push the issue (maybe I should have), seeing as how it was a very small order and I assumed it was pointless since there's no time and sales one can point to for reference.