Is Trading a mugs game for noobs

"Remember brokers normally say 20 to 35 % of their clients are winners every month etc etc - which by using stats in a certain way they can prove"

This data is quarterly not monthly and it only shows how many accounts ended in black in a single Q , this has nothing to do with being consistently profitable . Many traders will end a Q in black but so what ...

I had a chat once with the manager of a international broker business in Sydney, it was a while back, I asked him if any was making any money in his office, he was vague at the begging and at the end he only mentioned one trader and no more, he told me he was day trading the dax and he was not trading everyday...but he was winning big.
 
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Morning tar

0.5% ?? - Rhody trader stated 95% - so thats 5% not 0 5% and then in report - brokers figures that are incorrect state 30% profitable every quarter as quoted here

http://theessentialsoftrading.com/B.../starting-to-detail-forex-profitability-data/

Will have to supply other info later today or over weekend

Have a good day Tar

Regards


F

No he didn't say 95% fail , just read the full numbers , around 0.7% or so were able to be profitable every Q - 4+ winning quarters - , i think 67 from 8500 . Ofcourse if we extend the data the rate will go much lower :LOL: .

And re brokers data you are referring to it doesn't say 30% of traders are profitable every quarter , not the same traders anyway , so it rotates between traders .
 
I had a chat once with the manager of a international broker business in Sydney, it was a while back, I asked him if any was making any money in his office, he was vague at the begging and at the end he only mentioned one trader and no more, he told me he was day trading the dax and he was not trading everyday...but he was winning big.[/QUOTE }

Hi Fugazsy

I get the feeling trading indices is just not as easy as FX

Trouble is I know FX from a retail trader in great depth and have managed to solve the main puzzle - but other instruments etc etc - not got a clue on and never even traded them so maybe I should find out more.

Have a good session


Regards


F
 
I had a chat once with the manager of a international broker business in Sydney, it was a while back, I asked him if any was making any money in his office, he was vague at the begging and at the end he only mentioned one trader and no more, he told me he was day trading the dax and he was not trading everyday...but he was winning big.[/QUOTE }

Hi Fugazsy

I get the feeling trading indices is just not as easy as FX

Trouble is I know FX from a retail trader in great depth and have managed to solve the main puzzle - but other instruments etc etc - not got a clue on and never even traded them so maybe I should find out more.

Have a good session


Regards


F


Hi F

Forex is more difficult, you have to deal with two currencies and the sentiment can change easily from one session to the other and often in the same session, any fart can also have an influence, as you know the big money is made in the bigger swing.......but I only trade forex and probably I do not know much.
 
Hi F

Forex is more difficult, you have to deal with two currencies and the sentiment can change easily from one session to the other and often in the same session, any fart can also have an influence, as you know the big money is made in the bigger swing.......but I only trade forex and probably I do not know much.


Hi Fugazsy - I've always heard that Forex is incredibly difficult and very risky. But as the rate between the two currencies is driven by the entirety of two whole national economies, that might explain why they're much less unpredictable than say an index driven by just 30 companies from 4 or 5 sectors of one economy, let alone a share price driven by the activities of just one single company.

Forex trends can easily persist for months / years once established. They don't bounce around in massive daily % changes like the Dow etc.

I think the real risky reputation of Forex arises from the failure of new Forex retail traders to adapt to the tiny tiny numbering system of the rates. Its a big step in scale and thinking to go from trading the Dow at 17000pts to an exchange rate at 1.0001.

I notice also it seems a characteristic of US traders and market commentators (who must outnumber everyone else?) to be very attached to the actual price of stocks in $, rather than the change in price - so they do talk about e.g. $50 stocks, as if these are different to a £5 stock or a EUR10 stock - really its the % price change from $50 0r £5 or EUR10 that makes the profit or loss. $50 stocks are good to be long on, they would suggest. When they move into Forex, would it be a surprise if they misinterpreted the relative values and bullish properties of USD/JPY (124.00, big number, must be bullish, right?) versus EUR/USD (1.0900, a tiny number, about to go below 1, must be rubbish, yeah?).

Might be letting my prejudices show. And I don't have a scrap of evidence either. But I can reliably say that 82.78% of all statistics are made up on the spur of the moment by a middle-aged guy with a beard.
 
Hi Fugazsy - I've always heard that Forex is incredibly difficult and very risky. But as the rate between the two currencies is driven by the entirety of two whole national economies, that might explain why they're much less unpredictable than say an index driven by just 30 companies from 4 or 5 sectors of one economy, let alone a share price driven by the activities of just one single company.

Forex trends can easily persist for months / years once established. They don't bounce around in massive daily % changes like the Dow etc.

I think the real risky reputation of Forex arises from the failure of new Forex retail traders to adapt to the tiny tiny numbering system of the rates. Its a big step in scale and thinking to go from trading the Dow at 17000pts to an exchange rate at 1.0001.

I notice also it seems a characteristic of US traders and market commentators (who must outnumber everyone else?) to be very attached to the actual price of stocks in $, rather than the change in price - so they do talk about e.g. $50 stocks, as if these are different to a £5 stock or a EUR10 stock - really its the % price change from $50 0r £5 or EUR10 that makes the profit or loss. $50 stocks are good to be long on, they would suggest. When they move into Forex, would it be a surprise if they misinterpreted the relative values and bullish properties of USD/JPY (124.00, big number, must be bullish, right?) versus EUR/USD (1.0900, a tiny number, about to go below 1, must be rubbish, yeah?).

Might be letting my prejudices show. And I don't have a scrap of evidence either. But I can reliably say that 82.78% of all statistics are made up on the spur of the moment by a middle-aged guy with a beard.

true but forex can often alternate intraday between prolungate stalls and quick abrupt movements which are difficult to trade while with indices if you are on the right side you are a bit more safer......I think.
 
You're no doubt right about intraday patterns but I take the path of least resistance, trading daily charts with the trend over 2-9 days usually. I wouldn't say its hard.
 
I also have the churn rates on over 300 brokers from info I paid for
Enormous LOL. I'm showin this to the fellas over here in the morning. It's late early so I really have ta get an hour or so, but thanks for the mirth before bedtime. Priceless.


Just because I snubbed your feeble attempt for you wanting your so called company to pay me money for them to see how I traded it - ( what a joke) from then on I knew you are full of BS
Time ta be totally honest with ya. I knew you'd never accept my 'offer', for the simple reason, ya can't do what you say you do for real. And ye know ya can't. On here, it's all too easy to play a game with the sort of people you're goin to attract. Your gaff was well and truly blown. Not that it was ever really in any doubt by those of us who know.

Have a good one.
 
And re brokers data you are referring to it doesn't say 30% of traders are profitable every quarter , not the same traders anyway , so it rotates between traders.
That's the point, it doesn't 'rotate'. The Nth consecutive quarter losers drop out, the worse for wear financially, ta be replaced by fresh meat, ad nauseum. At the end of a 2 year stint, you've got less than 2% of those starting out still in the game and up on their starting capital.
 
That's the point, it doesn't 'rotate'. The Nth consecutive quarter losers drop out, the worse for wear financially, ta be replaced by fresh meat, ad nauseum. At the end of a 2 year stint, you've got less than 2% of those starting out still in the game and up on their starting capital.

I agree , thats what i meant by "rotates" ...
 
You're no doubt right about intraday patterns but I take the path of least resistance, trading daily charts with the trend over 2-9 days usually. I wouldn't say its hard.

no sure how I would take advantage of this:

EU daily
 

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Enormous LOL. I'm showin this to the fellas over here in the morning. It's late early so I really have ta get an hour or so, but thanks for the mirth before bedtime. Priceless.


Time ta be totally honest with ya. I knew you'd never accept my 'offer', for the simple reason, ya can't do what you say you do for real. And ye know ya can't. On here, it's all too easy to play a game with the sort of people you're goin to attract. Your gaff was well and truly blown. Not that it was ever really in any doubt by those of us who know.

Have a good one.


Enormous bigger bigger LOL on what you have just said - :LOL:

You really are talking out your backside and I am not the only person in this forum to find this out.

'Cause I can blooming do what I say i can do - not just me but maybe according to your absolute silly figures if you think are only 2% of profitable traders around the world - then according to this report from Citi FX ( again I dont believe it) there are 4 million traders spread around the world ( page 2 ) and so get your calculator out - thats if you know how to use one - and 2% is 80,000 consistently profitable traders - not just 10000 to 25000.

https://www.ecb.europa.eu/paym/groups/pdf/fxcg/2301/Retail_FX.pdf?99ed534c27d45cbd80bebe1c60d92ce4

Maybe there might be 10000 short term intraday trader better than me - and you honestly don't think any can do it never mind me - lol

Just check out again yesterday morning and this morning how accurate I am with my trading calls - ( in advance) some by 10 -15 mins - others by hours

Its so embarrassing really for you to be both representing the banking world and also the Irish

Still we all can guess you are probably still stoned out your mind - so you do have that as an excuse

Keep providing the laughs Pat - and then have a look in the mirror

Best Regards


F
 
no sure how I would take advantage of this:

EU daily


Sorry, I meant my positions usually last 2-9 days, I don't trade off trends of 2-9 days only.

This one I would not be trading at this time. I still mark this pair as bearish but price has stopped falling, while the EUR generally looks bullish against more currencies than it looks bearish against. But if you like these sorts of things there was the opportunity to go long yesterday when we confirmed a higher low.
 
Enormous LOL. I'm showin this to the fellas over here in the morning. It's late early so I really have ta get an hour or so, but thanks for the mirth before bedtime. Priceless.

----

Hi Pat

Forget to mention also Pat is the governing bodies dont actually know how many brokers there are all around the world.

Estimates are now over 500 - although latest report in 2014 said 158 brokers properly regulated and authorised and then there way more in other parts of the world that make up the growth in "dark pools" - I am sure that's an area you might know a lot about - please let know how many you can find in Mexico while you are there ;-)

Regards

F
 
Sorry, I meant my positions usually last 2-9 days, I don't trade off trends of 2-9 days only.

This one I would not be trading at this time. I still mark this pair as bearish but price has stopped falling, while the EUR generally looks bullish against more currencies than it looks bearish against. But if you like these sorts of things there was the opportunity to go long yesterday when we confirmed a higher low.

not for me mate, I like to risk little and most of the time I am out before I finish my session, sometime I leave it overnight but not often.....I like to feel I made my money at the end of the day for my effort...it is only my way....I am sure been able to sit tight for longer and adding at every possibility can bring great returns....but is not me.....horses for courses....

Said that many times I was able to double my small accounts in a few weeks by sitting tight by choosing the right direction.....but my risk was 10% per trade with a SL of 100 pips (trailing every 100) and adding every 50 on the way.

Not sure I would that with my proper account, but if a small account is build I guess there would not be much pressure, but I have not tried yet.
 
Hi toony,
Welcome to T2W!

As 0007 rightly implies, brokers aren't the problem. If they were, then virtually no one would ever make any many - including the brokers themselves. That said, trading is a tough business: it's not for the faint hearted or those searching for a fast track to instant wealth. If you're not prepared to invest herculean amounts of effort and time into learning about it - then my advice would be not to bother with it and do something else.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.
Tim.

Tim

If brokers are not the problem why are here posts like this on T2W

http://www.trade2win.com/reviews/brokers/214-ig#review-5676
 
"the brokers screw you" right.. another conspiracy theorist!. Trust me, if you understand what a broker is, you would know they can NOT screw you.

The probable reason you make money on a demo account and lose it in real life is the physiological stresses of losing money- on line i'd probably make a great surgeon:D

Interested to hear your reply to this forum post then

http://www.trade2win.com/reviews/brokers/214-ig#review-5676
 
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